FISA court hasn't rejected a single request in 2 years

[spartaman64]

15 hours ago, Enderman said:

Governments have been "spying" on you since you were born. Has this affected your life in any way? No.

So just keep moving and ignore this crap because worrying about something you can't do anything about is a waste of time.

you might not need the privacy but there are people out there like whistleblowers that do need the privacy and you never know when you yourself are going to need it also

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

you might not need the privacy but there are people out there like whistleblowers that do need the privacy and you never know when you yourself are going to need it also

i dont do illegal stuff, so i dont hide when i go in public, and i dont hide when i go on the internet

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

i dont do illegal stuff, so i dont hide when i go in public, and i dont hide when i go on the internet

ok then give me your email username and password if you have nothing to hide. and you want whistleblowers to be crippled in their ability to hold the government accountable. 

[thekeemo]

3 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

ok then give me your email username and password if you have nothing to hide. and you want whistleblowers to be crippled in their ability to hold the government accountable. 

Just as soon as you give yours.

[Enderman]

4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

ok then give me your email username and password if you have nothing to hide. and you want whistleblowers to be crippled in their ability to hold the government accountable. 

Why would I want to give them to you?

lol

we're not talking about random people getting your information, we're talking about the FBI and government getting your information

 

If a police officer asked me for my name and drivers license of course I would give it to him

I'm not going to give it to some random kid on the internet though

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

Why would I want to give them to you?

lol

we're not talking about random people getting your information, we're talking about the FBI and government getting your information

 

If a police officer asked me for my name and drivers license of course I would give it to him

I'm not going to give it to some random kid on the internet though

if the police officer ask you to give him your email username and password or to come and search your house without a warrant or to give him your social media account password would you hand those over?

[Enderman]

4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

if the police officer ask you to give him your email username and password or to come and search your house without a warrant or to give him your social media account password would you hand those over?

well technically you would have to, because otherwise it is considered obstructing the law and that can get you arrested, so yeah

he also wouldn't find anything in my house or email or social media accounts, so he would just leave when hes done

 

you've seen all the cases of police officers searching people's phones when they suspect something, right?

they are allowed to do that if they want

if you resist you get arrested

[spartaman64]

3 minutes ago, Enderman said:

well technically you would have to, because otherwise it is considered obstructing the law and that can get you arrested, so yeah

 

you've seen all the cases of police officers searching people's phones when they suspect something, right?

they are allowed to do that if they want

if you resist you get arrested

no he can take you into custody but if you say let i invoke my right to a lawyer and he doesn't have a warrant he cant do any of that

[Enderman]

2 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

no he can take you into custody but if you say let i invoke my right to a lawyer and he doesn't have a warrant he cant do any of that

well since we're using the analogy of police entering your home, you can say from the topic of the article that the police are getting search warrants granted by FISA

and that no search warrant requests are getting rejected

 

so that would technically mean they do have a search warrant and would enter your house, whether you like it or not

 

and since I have nothing in my house that is bad or illegal, they would find nothing and leave again to look for someone who does have something illegal

simple

if police were searching your house for something you know they wont find there, why throw a tantrum? you would just make things more difficult for everybody and maybe even get arrested if you try to stop them.

[spartaman64]

9 minutes ago, Enderman said:

well technically you would have to, because otherwise it is considered obstructing the law and that can get you arrested, so yeah

he also wouldn't find anything in my house or email or social media accounts, so he would just leave when hes done

 

you've seen all the cases of police officers searching people's phones when they suspect something, right?

they are allowed to do that if they want

if you resist you get arrested

let me give you a little advice if a police officer ask you for information dont tell him anything until you can get a lawyer. when the officer reads you your mirranda rights that anything you say can and will be used against you in court he is not kidding anything you say if it can be interpreted in anyway that can be used against you will be used against you. lets say they suspect you of stealing a car so they go up to you and ask what is your occupation and you tell them I am a mechanic at a car repair shop. boom your chances of being convicted just rose 

[spartaman64]

5 minutes ago, Enderman said:

well since we're using the analogy of police entering your home, you can say from the topic of the article that the police are getting search warrants granted by FISA

and that no search warrant requests are getting rejected

 

so that would technically mean they do have a search warrant and would enter your house, whether you like it or not

 

and since I have nothing in my house that is bad or illegal, they would find nothing and leave again to look for someone who does have something illegal

simple

if police were searching your house for something you know they wont find there, why throw a tantrum? you would just make things more difficult for everybody and maybe even get arrested if you try to stop them.

and you think that it is just if the court doesnt reject any warrant requests? and what if the police goes hm you have an inordinate amount of cash in your house ill be taking that for "safekeeping" and even when you been proven innocent they dont give that money back. that has happened on many occasions and its incredibly hard to fight in court

[Enderman]

3 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

let me give you a little advice if a police officer ask you for information dont tell him anything until you can get a lawyer. when the officer reads you your mirranda rights that anything you say can and will be used against you in court he is not kidding anything you say if it can be interpreted in anyway that can be used against you will be used against you. lets say they suspect you of stealing a car so they go up to you and ask what is your occupation and you tell them I am a mechanic at a car repair shop. boom your chances of being convicted just rose 

again, i wouldnt have stolen a car, so it would be impossible to prove that I stole it

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

and you think that is just if the court doesnt reject any warrant requests? and what if the police goes hm you have an inordinate amount of cash in your house ill be taking that for "safekeeping" and even when you been proven innocent they dont give that money back. that has happened on many occasions and its incredibly hard to fight in court

another thing I don't have in my house is "inordinate amounts of cash"

 

all your points are "what if" cases that will never happen to me

if you're honestly so concerned about this then I'm left to assume you're doing something illegal that you're trying to hide, in which case sure, be as concerned as you want

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

again, i wouldnt have stolen a car, so it would be impossible to prove that I stole it

another thing I don't have in my house is "inordinate amounts of cash"

 

all your points are "what if" cases that will never happen to me

if you're honestly so concerned about this then I'm left to assume you're doing something illegal that you're trying to hide, in which case sure, be as concerned as you want

but they are things that do happen to other people and does the word justice mean nothing to you. once again i have nothing to hide but people out there like whistleblowers who are working to keep the government accountable which also helps me have something to hide. and if you give up one of your rights then whats next? your freedom of speech? the freedom of press? where does this rabbit hole end?

[Enderman]

5 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

but they are things that do happen to other people and does the word justice mean nothing to you. once again i have nothing to hide but people out there like whistleblowers who are working to keep the government accountable which also helps me have something to hide. and if you give up one of your rights then whats next? your freedom of speech? the freedom of press? where does this rabbit hole end?

Well first of all, whistleblowers have much greater things to worry about than the FBI finding out their names or personal information, they have to worry about getting killed by secret government services

Are you trying to protect those people by making posts on the internet?

Personally I dont think a forum post can keep someone from getting assassinated...

 

second, whether the FBI has their computer or personal information or not, there are still organizations that are paid by "government" that would "make people disappear" so stopping the FBI is not going to make a difference to the whistleblowers who are hunted

 

Third, you're using a SSA fallacy, so you're also wrong about that too. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with this.

 

PS-"freedom of press" is not really a thing anymore, maybe you didnt know that

[spartaman64]

6 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Well first of all, whistleblowers have much greater things to worry about than the FBI finding out their names or personal information, they have to worry about getting killed by secret government services

Are you trying to protect those people by making posts on the internet?

Personally I dont think a forum post can keep someone from getting assassinated...

 

second, whether the FBI has their computer or personal information or not, there are still organizations that are paid by "government" that would "make people disappear" so stopping the FBI is not going to make a difference to the whistleblowers who are hunted

 

Third, you're using a SSA fallacy, so you're also wrong about that too. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with this.

 

PS-"freedom of press" is not really a thing anymore, maybe you didnt know that

you seriously think that giving up one of your freedoms doesnt set a precedent. and how can the sercret service kill the whistle blowers if they dont know who they are and dont have information on them. if you think that secrecy doesnt help whistileblowers and doesnt make a difference you are very delusional 

freedom of the press is still a thing sure the big outlets are controlled by people in power but there are still smaller outlets that tell the truth and you think that protecting their ability to do so is not valuable?

[Enderman]

29 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

you seriously think that giving up one of your freedoms doesnt set a precedent. and how can the sercret service kill the whistle blowers if they dont know who they are and dont have information on them. if you think that secrecy doesnt help whistileblowers and doesnt make a difference you are very delusional 

freedom of the press is still a thing sure the big outlets are controlled by people in power but there are still smaller outlets that tell the truth and you think that protecting their ability to do so is not valuable?

snowden is still alive, is he not?

 

and btw about the press, there will always be people who tell the truth, whether they are press or not

that doesnt really have anything to do with the fbi though

 

 

anyway, what are you currently doing if you're so concerned about privacy?

do you use tor and encryption and VPNs whenever you go online? do you never go out in public, or do you wear a mask and walk through dark alleys to keep your privacy?

what makes you think that the government will pick you out of billions of people to spy on? you must be doing some really illegal stuff to be concerned about being picked out of 1 in a billion

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

snowden is still alive, is he not?

 

and btw about the press, there will always be people who tell the truth, whether they are press or not

that doesnt really have anything to do with the fbi though

 

 

anyway, what are you currently doing if you're so concerned about privacy?

do you use tor and encryption and VPNs whenever you go online? do you never go out in public, or do you wear a mask and walk through dark alleys to keep your privacy?

what makes you think that the government will pick you out of billions of people to spy on? you must be doing some really illegal stuff to be concerned about being picked out of 1 in a billion

i already said multiple times that im not concerned about my privacy but about the privacy of other people whose privacy also benefits me but of course you just conveniently ignore that. and if privacy doesnt matter to whistle blowers like snowden then why are they the ones who are defend privacy the most

[Enderman]

4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i already said multiple times that im not concerned about my privacy but about the privacy of other people whose privacy also benefits me but of course you just conveniently ignore that. and if privacy doesnt matter to whistle blowers like snowden then why are they the ones who are defend privacy the most

What are you doing to help the privacy of others?

[spartaman64]

9 minutes ago, Enderman said:

What are you doing to help the privacy of others?

this isnt an argument about which one of us is doing more this is an argument about whether privacy is important

[Misanthrope]

16 hours ago, Enderman said:

It's not that I don't care, it's that there are a million things more important to care about than "omg the FBI can see the p0rn i watch, this is a violation of my privacy"

No, those other great problems are actually not more important. Because a lot of places with authoritarian governments, rampant crime, overall shitty conditions like extreme poverty, etc. Can all be traced back to people who just don't have individual freedom. Without it, everything goes to shit since there is no rule of law, no accountability, no dissent and henceforth no real improvement of ideas.

 

Individual freedom translates into people being adults, able to discuss issues that impact all of them based on their merits. Because giving everyone individual freedom means that everyone's individual freedom must also be respected as a direct consequence of infringing on someone else's freedom by not doing so. 

 

Once we decide "we know x point is correct we won't even hear about detractors or counter arguments" everything goes to shit. This is why religious bigots keep shutting down discussions about gay rights, this is why cultural Marxists keep shutting down discussions about feminism and racism, this is why a lot of really stupid non issues like gun control or abortion are still highly debated issues because far too many people want to put their fund down, refuse to listen and consider any opinion contrary to their own and just try to censorship, to force, to silence their opposition not by merit of discussing their ideas but simply by not allowing those ideas to be discussed at all because "God says so" and because "Founding fathers want me to have AR15s" and because "You're a misogynist if you don't believe myths we can easily refute with numbers like the wage gap" and so on and so forth.

 

Please adopt other position than "This is not important because we can't do anything about it and it always happened" there's very important principles beyond what you consider as just geek paranoia from the tone of your responses.

[Enderman]

44 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

this isnt an argument about which one of us is doing more this is an argument about whether privacy is important

 

37 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

No, those other great problems are actually not more important. Because a lot of places with authoritarian governments, rampant crime, overall shitty conditions like extreme poverty, etc. Can all be traced back to people who just don't have individual freedom. Without it, everything goes to shit since there is no rule of law, no accountability, no dissent and henceforth no real improvement of ideas.

 

Individual freedom translates into people being adults, able to discuss issues that impact all of them based on their merits. Because giving everyone individual freedom means that everyone's individual freedom must also be respected as a direct consequence of infringing on someone else's freedom by not doing so. 

 

Once we decide "we know x point is correct we won't even hear about detractors or counter arguments" everything goes to shit. This is why religious bigots keep shutting down discussions about gay rights, this is why cultural Marxists keep shutting down discussions about feminism and racism, this is why a lot of really stupid non issues like gun control or abortion are still highly debated issues because far too many people want to put their fund down, refuse to listen and consider any opinion contrary to their own and just try to censorship, to force, to silence their opposition not by merit of discussing their ideas but simply by not allowing those ideas to be discussed at all because "God says so" and because "Founding fathers want me to have AR15s" and because "You're a misogynist if you don't believe myths we can easily refute with numbers like the wage gap" and so on and so forth.

 

Please adopt other position than "This is not important because we can't do anything about it and it always happened" there's very important principles beyond what you consider as just geek paranoia from the tone of your responses.

 

10 years ago all of this spying was also going on and nobody complained because nobody knew about it

now people know about it and they complain and they still dont do anything about it other than make posts online to "raise awareness" aka "im doing enough"

just like people "raise awareness" by putting french flags on their profile pictures to pretend they care while ignoring the other 50 million people who are dying

 

what a bunch of hypocrites

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

 

 

10 years ago all of this spying was also going on and nobody complained because nobody knew about it

now people know about it and they complain and they still dont do anything about it other than make posts online to "raise awareness" aka "im doing enough"

just like people "raise awareness" by putting french flags on their profile pictures to pretend they care while ignoring the other 50 million people who are dying

 

what a bunch of hypocrites

going off topic are we? dont have many more counter arguments left. once again this isnt about who is doing more its about whether or not privacy is important

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

going off topic are we? dont have many more counter arguments left. once again this isnt about who is doing more its about whether or not privacy is important

K I guess I'm not going outside ever again because people being able to see me is a violation of my privacy

/s

better board up those windows so people cant look inside my house

[spartaman64]

Just now, Enderman said:

K I guess I'm not going outside ever again because people being able to see me is a violation of my privacy

/s

better board up those windows so people cant look inside my house

wow nice strawman

[Misanthrope]

4 minutes ago, Enderman said:

 

 

10 years ago all of this spying was also going on and nobody complained because nobody knew about it

now people know about it and they complain and they still dont do anything about it other than make posts online to "raise awareness" aka "im doing enough"

just like people "raise awareness" by putting french flags on their profile pictures to pretend they care while ignoring the other 50 million people who are dying

 

what a bunch of hypocrites

And 50 years ago we didn't even had widespread computers and further back not at all and we had people going to great lengths to spy on others. Or do you think rules of evidence and provisions against illegal search and seizure were basically just nonsense nobody ever complained about too?