Surface 2: Can Microsoft’s Tablets Actually Be Successful

[SethAFitzgerald]

FULL STORY: http://tgbuzz.com/surface-2-pro-rt-microsoft-preview/100/
 

 

 

If you followed the original Surface tablet news at all, you already know that the devices did not sell nearly as well as Microsoft hoped they would nor did they turn a profit.

 

 

Now, Microsoft is at it again and is going to try and make the second-generation of Surface tablets successful. Microsoft will be announcing two devices during an event in New York tomorrow, the Surface 2 and the Surface 2 Pro. Along with those devices, there are rumors suggesting that a third device–a Surface mini–will be announced before the end of the year.

 

[Bluejay0]

Lets hope the storage advertised IS PROMISED THIS TIME!!!!

[Kirihuna]

In order to be competitive, I think Microsoft needs their tablet to have a similar form factor as the Nexus 7/10 and iPad mini / full.

 

They're thin and touch screen with magnification battery life.

 

Surface RT / Pro are too "thick" for everyday use.

 

Most people don't want at tablet for performance. They want it for portability and to get the job done.

[SethAFitzgerald]

In order to be competitive, I think Microsoft needs their tablet to have a similar form factor as the Nexus 7/10 and iPad mini / full.

 

They're thin and touch screen with magnification battery life.

 

Surface RT / Pro are too "thick" for everyday use.

 

Most people don't want at tablet for performance. They want it for portability and to get the job done.

I agree. They are big and bulky, not to mention bad battery life and expensive.

[mymouthandi]

Surface Pro 2/3/4 will no doubt be decent and worth buying but there just isn't enough 3rd party support out there for Windows RT. However, if they do persist with RT then it's going to have to be a smaller form factor, 7-8" I'd say. The Pro can legitimately replace a laptop but the RT can't and it just can't match up to iPads and Nexus tablets.  

[GoodBytes]

Here we go again...

Ok, so let do some clarifications.

 

 #1- The Surface storage space is small, because it has an entire image backup of the system WITH Windows 8 PLUS all recovery tools. Microsoft already showed how you can backup those up, and free the space out of the tablet. The idea behind this, is:

• Not like OEMs where you have nothing.. so if you need to re-install you are screwed.
• You are able to re-install Windows + drivers, on the go, essentially. No need to plug it to another computer to do so. This is CRITICAL for the Surface Pro, as explained bellow.

But what I'll say, is that the smaller storage Surface/Surface Pro should NOT exists. So for example, you have the Surface Pro 128GB, and that's it.

 

#2- The Surface RT is a device that you can compare to the iPad and similar device. Microsoft mistake was the Windows RT was not ready yet in terms of performance. Based on forum members feedback after 6month+ of usage, they all report that Windows RT updates have indeed improved the performance of the device. But, yes, the first impression really hurt the device.

Another issue, is that you can see that when they designed the Surface RT, they designed it for 1 specific processor, and not assume that they 'll be getting a newer processor. I don't know why. Maybe they were afraid that leak information from Qualcomm or Nvidia or Texas Instrument would mention that Microsoft is working on a tablet, so they got the Tegra 3, an old processor (well currently release during the dev of the Surface). That is a debate on itself. I don't know. I wasn't there at the R&D stages, obviously. Maybe, it's a lack of experience? Who knows. In any case, the Surface 2 will have a drastically faster processor: Tegra 4, which while is NOT the Apple or Samsung best chips, in terms of performance, it should provide an assured smooth experience, especially with further optimization in Windows 8.1. At least on paper

 

#3 - The Surface Pro. That device, is NOT an Ultrabook, This device is NOT an iPad (I mean seriously guys? really?). It's a class of it's own. A hybrid device. The target market of this device is for power users. If you want to surf the web and watch videos all day, they are FAR better choices out there. If you don't care about the pen, and/or the 10-11inch form factor is not a must, then again, they are FAR better choices out there, because the device is not for you. Why don't I have an iPad, or an Android tablet? Because it is not a device for me. Simple as that! I also don't have an Nvidia Tesla GPU in my computer. I don't buy one, and complain why there is no video ports.

Example of interesting products, if the Surface Pro is not for you:

• Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro (coming soon)
• Dell XPS 12 Haswell refresh (coming soon).

The above devices are larger, good display, the Yoga 2 can have an almost 4K display, and have more powerful CPU, and storage option (let alone upgradable). No digitize pen though, and larger.

 

So who the Surface Pro is for?

• Power users
• Students (Mostly, and most probably those who study in engineering and computer science. Physics/Chemistry and Math possibly.)
• Software Developers
• Engineers

Basically, people that want digitize pen to write notes, do graph, math, diagrams, but also need power, and run traditional Windows binary files, if you will, for programs that is simply not available on other tablet devices. It's a small market, possibly niche. That is also why the power brick has a USB charging port, which now HP copied for it's business class ultrabooks.

It's for professionals on the go. You can charge other devices on that USB port on the power adapter. Not consumer oriented at all.

 

Too many reviews starts comparing the device with an iPad, or a laptop... which is just wrong. laptop is so much bigger, the battery is bigger, so OBVIOUSLY the battery life will be longer.

The iPad, you can't do anything compared on all the things that is possible to do on a Windows device. And again, if you say: web surfing, gaming on the go, and all that jazz. See above, the device is not for you. No where it attempts to be like the iPad. If anything, it can compared to convertible tablets, which never got tracking because:

• Super slow compared to a laptop.
• Windows 7 and bellow never had the GUI for it.
• Battery life sucked, worst than the Surface Pro, unless you get a large super bulky battery
• Heavy. If you guys lift it, it's like holding, literally a laptop. You'll get tired with 2 hands.
• Freaking Bulky, it's literary the thickness of a normal laptop in tablet.

As we now have the technology, and the software, Microsoft showed how you can do it, and surpassed everything that was on the market. An amazing feet in that regard.

 

#4 - Reviews - Do you know who the reviewers is? Do you know what he or she does? No. The device might not be for him, so has no value. I haven't read any reviews from big sites that mention anything about the pen in taking notes, or drawing (Did you know it can track over 1000 pressure level? But who cares right? as per most reviewers). All they do, is go pretty much: "That's kinda nice.. look I can do lines in Fresh Paint! But there is not much point.....", and goes on. Ignoring the most important part of the device. They usually focus on the camera (which technically you don't care, because as you can see even in all advertisement, it's used for Skype, not taking photography shots (beside, like people taking pictures with their iPad , you look like an idiot). I don't know if anyone here has a 1080p camera.. but if you do, do a video chat with Skype or Google Talk.. that 1080p camera is a bit of a waste, as the video is compressed. This is the type of thing that, if it was better, it would be a bonus, but not part of your decision making. It should not be, if it is... then again, the device is not for you. I can understand if the camera was awful, but it's isn't. And I can do on.

 

 

#5 Side Notes. The Surface Pro is not too thick. It's actually really slim. While I hate doing this, look at a convertible tablet... look at the Surface Pro. Night and day.

If your complain about thickness, then the device is not for you. I mean, people buying convertible tablet care about thickness? No!, Why? Because it's 90% of the time on a table, where notes with the pen is used.

 

As for the Surface, that's a different story. But, if you look, the thickness of the Surface is exactly the one of the iPad.

So how is it too thick? It's none sense.

 

They are a lot of lies spread about the Surface, due to rushed reviewed that certainly started to write the review, before he even received the device, to get a first review release, for clicks.

Or fan boys of the other camp, spreading lies because it is a competing products. Something that Microsoft gets a big hit for some reason. Remember how Vista blocked MP3s? How Windows 7 Task bar is an exact replica of MacOS task bar?, and I go on and on... especially Windows 8. Of course, this is non sense, as we use the product, and correct those morons spreading lies.

 

 

And now, because I said this: "GoodBytes is a Microsoft fanboy!!!!"

Yes, and I am also AMD fanboy, Nvidia fanboy, Intel fanboy, Dell, ASUS, Logitech, Razor, Antec, Fractal Design, Corsair, and what else I was called... Oh Sony fanboy (even thought I never owned any of they consoles, or even device... really.. my last Sony product I bought was my old CRT Trinitron TV.. and even then I didn't buy it, it's my parents).

Just because I correct false facts, and kinda balance a forum thread, of the opposite side, doesn't make me a fanboy.

[ZombifiedPyro]

Here we go again...

 

It took me ten minutes to read the entire post, and I agree with every point you made. It is about time somebody shared my point of view on the surface tablets.

[mymouthandi]

A very well written and informative post there, GoodBytes. 

[dalekphalm]

In order to be competitive, I think Microsoft needs their tablet to have a similar form factor as the Nexus 7/10 and iPad mini / full.

 

They're thin and touch screen with magnification battery life.

 

Surface RT / Pro are too "thick" for everyday use.

 

Most people don't want at tablet for performance. They want it for portability and to get the job done.

I agree that if they continue to make a Surface RT product, then they should make it as thin and light as possible. Using ARM architecture (Either Intel if they release any ARM SoC's or the traditional Samsung/Qualcomm/TI etc) they should easily be able to get the Surface RT into a formfactor the same as an iPad 4th Gen, in terms of weight, size, and battery life.

 

I also firmly believe that Windows RT should have the desktop component completely removed because it's not compatible with x86 programs anyway, so what is the point of it being there? Desktop is shitty on a 10-11" touch screen. It would also help if they clarified the naming scheme somehow and renamed Windows RT something else, like Metro RT or Modern RT OS, or Windows Tablet 8 (Like the Windows Phone 8 naming convention). Or hell, even just making Windows Phone 8 and Windows RT the same OS (As iOS and Android do). The average person sees the word "Windows" in the product name and thinks "Oh I can install all my programs on this" which is obviously so far wrong to any techie, but we're a small section of buyers.

 

There should also be a larger distinction between the RT and PRO models of the Surface, in terms of product identification. The way it is now, would be like if Apple came out with a 10-11" MacBook Tablet (Think Air without the keyboard) running OS X 10.whateveristhenewest, and calling it an iPad. That would just confuse the hell out of customers.

 

As far as the Surface Pro goes for everyday use, I'd say that it is light enough, and that with the extended battery of Haswell, it will last enough. People liken to compare it to an Ultrabook, because in a lot of ways it fills the same roles. The only real advantage an Ultrabook has over the Surface Pro (Discounting battery since that'll be fixed in Haswell) is two things:

1) Better keyboard - Obviously this makes the typing experience better on an Ultrabook. However this can potentially be somewhat mitigated by excellent keyboard attachments (Something akin to the ASUS Transformer style keyboard + battery attachment would do it for me), whether developed by 1st or 3rd party.

2) Varying screen sizes - pick the model that fits the size you need. Obviously Surface only comes in one size.

 

As you mentioned in a different post, it should be in a separate category, aka the "Hybrid Device". As it's not quite a tablet, and not quite an Ultrabook. It's something of both.

 

In terms of OP, I'm very much confident that Microsoft COULD make it a successful device both financially and in terms of market share. The question is WILL they? They have been managing to screw up things lately that they should have had in the hole. I hope they  turn themselves around because the Windows 8/Phone 8 ecosystem has the potential to be kickass. I've been very pleased with my Windows Phone 7 experience, and I can't wait to upgrade to a WP8. So having that experience roll over to a Surface Pro would be pretty sweet, personally.

[pit5000]

i'm still waiting for all the apps...

[MdX MaxX]

Surface Pro is a really damn nice tablet.

 

The problem is battery life.  It's x86, I don't care how sparse the Microsoft Store may be, I'll just use all my normal Windows programs.  But 3 hours on a charge just will not work.

 

If Microsoft can utilize the power efficiency of Haswell/Broadwell and get 6+ hours out of a charge, the next Surface Pro can be a very compelling option.

 

On the other hand, I believe Surface RT (and Windows RT in general) is doomed to irrelevance.  It's too little too late.

[Yoinkerman]

My buddy has a surface pro and he loves it, he uses it as a computer replacement, and for that it's great with a bluetooth mouse and the keyboard dock pad thing.  The intel hd does alright with most non 3d games and it's great for consuming media.

 

He's not a power user by any means, for someone without a lot of space it's great.

[Bluejay0]

My buddy has a surface pro and he loves it, he uses it as a computer replacement, and for that it's great with a bluetooth mouse and the keyboard dock pad thing. The intel hd does alright with most non 3d games and it's great for consuming media.

He's not a power user by any means, for someone without a lot of space it's great.

Only game I would personally play is Fez, don't starve, or some other low gpu needing games.

[LonliestofAll]

The reason i look at the surface over any other 10" and above tablet is the pen and keyboard. You may all hate the keyboard which I get why, no tactile feed back, but you can't say that this isn't good for the power user running art based apps and other uses that are enhanced when using a pen. DO NOT try to use this as a replacment gaming machine as it doesn't have the gpu for it, unless your running some sort of application that uses a cloud computing gpu to run your game, such as Kainy.

 

This is a fantastic tablet for the power user that doesn't need a strong GPU.

[ZombifiedPyro]

This is a fantastic tablet for the power user that doesn't need a strong GPU.

Yeah, but that isn't saying I wouldn't want a stronger GPU in it.

[LonliestofAll]

Yeah, but that isn't saying I wouldn't want a stronger GPU in it.

If you want a stronger GPU buy the Razer Edge 2 because the thickness of the tablet is going to thicken to about the same thickness.

[GoodBytes]

The reason i look at the surface over any other 10" and above tablet is the pen and keyboard. You may all hate the keyboard which I get why, no tactile feed back, but you can't say that this isn't good for the power user running art based apps and other uses that are enhanced when using a pen. DO NOT try to use this as a replacment gaming machine as it doesn't have the gpu for it, unless your running some sort of application that uses a cloud computing gpu to run your game, such as Kainy.

 

This is a fantastic tablet for the power user that doesn't need a strong GPU.

 

There is a physical keyboard option.

[LonliestofAll]

There is a physical keyboard option.

I know, but it makes it as thick as an ultrabook then. I would rather stay thin with the touch cover keyboard.

[TheSLSAMG]

Here we go again...

Ok, so let do some clarifications.

 

 #1- The Surface storage space is small, because it has an entire image backup of the system WITH Windows 8 PLUS all recovery tools. Microsoft already showed how you can backup those up, and free the space out of the tablet. The idea behind this, is:

• Not like OEMs where you have nothing.. so if you need to re-install you are screwed.

 

As much as I agree with what you said, here is this. Many companies have partitions on their devices. These partitions contain an OS image and drivers. I was fixing a Compaq laptop, and it had a partition like this. Even Compaq, which make shit computers, does it.

[mvitkun]

YEAH I'M A BOSS!,STOP COMPARING TWO OR MORE COMPLETELY UNRELATED PRODUCTS

Awesome post though honestly.

[GoodBytes]

As much as I agree with what you said, here is this. Many companies have partitions on their devices. These partitions contain an OS image and drivers. I was fixing a Compaq laptop, and it had a partition like this. Even Compaq, which make shit computers, does it.

Very true, actually.

So you loose space because of that, yet people don't mind. They were/are 120GB systems, even 64GB systems at some point, and it was no problem. But now, its Microsoft, so now it becomes a big problem?!

[TheSLSAMG]

Very true. Fair enough.

However, do you have the full advertise space because of that?

Nope.

 

I don't get why the whole "advertised space" thing is such a big deal. I have a 120GB SSD that when empty reads 111GB because of Binary.

[LonliestofAll]

I think that Microsoft gets too much hate for the slightest of errors. The Xbox One hated for no offline, they fix it and they're hated for fixing it. The surface not liked because it has 10 GB used up by the OS. Windows 8 is great if you learn to use metro UI, same with vista learn the new stuff. Microsoft changes something and then everyone goes off on them and when they don't they still go off on them. Make up your mind internet.

[Wulfgar]

The anti-Windows 8 circlejerk is strong in this thread. Thank goodness for GoodBytes to post good rebuttals.

[TheProfosist]

The anti-Windows 8 circlejerk is strong in this thread. Thank goodness for GoodBytes to post good rebuttals.

I shall rebut as well why didnt anyone notify me reinforcements were needed?