Pure vs Simulated Sinewave UPS?

[elliott35]

Whats the difference and why would I need a pure sine wave UPS over a simulated one? Im looking at these 2 UPS's from cyberpower ( 1 and 2 ) and other than the sine wave there is no real difference. I have heard its better for the PSU to have a Pure sinewave but im not sure if thats true. Its going to be for my Freenas computer

[W-L]

2 minutes ago, elliott35 said:

Whats the difference and why would I need a pure sine wave UPS over a simulated one? Im looking at these 2 UPS's from cyberpower ( 1 and 2 ) and other than the sine wave there is no real difference. I have heard its better for the PSU to have a Pure sinewave but im not sure if thats true. Its going to be for my Freenas computer

Pure sinewave ones tend to be the best option with stepped approximated right behind it where they ensure the PSU is compatible with the UPS since the PSU if it was overly sensitive or had a square wave would shut itself down thinking it's receiving bad power. The Cyberpower ones are pretty good, I'm partial to APC but overall as long as they are either pure sinewave or at the very least stepped approx it should work with all modern PSU's. 

[MrBucket101]

14 minutes ago, elliott35 said:

Whats the difference and why would I need a pure sine wave UPS over a simulated one? Im looking at these 2 UPS's from cyberpower ( 1 and 2 ) and other than the sine wave there is no real difference. I have heard its better for the PSU to have a Pure sinewave but im not sure if thats true. Its going to be for my Freenas computer

I own #2, no complaints at all. Works perfectly with my linux server.

 

the pure sinewave just provides more compatibility, newer PSU's will tend to shut off when they detect a square wave. The pure sine wave prevents that from happening.

[elliott35]

Is it better for the health of the computer?

[spwath]

9 minutes ago, W-L said:

Pure sinewave ones tend to be the best option with stepped approximated right behind it where they ensure the PSU is compatible with the UPS since the PSU if it was overly sensitive or had a square wave would shut itself down thinking it's receiving bad power. The Cyberpower ones are pretty good, I'm partial to APC but overall as long as they are either pure sinewave or at the very least stepped approx it should work with all modern PSU's. 

This.

A picture to go along if you would like to visualie it

Black is the pure sine wave, red is stepped, blue is square.

[W-L]

1 minute ago, elliott35 said:

Is it better for the health of the computer?

Between the two it's only when it runs in battery backup that it goes into effect, I've used stepped approx for all my systems without issues only thing is some PSU's do create a more of an audible buzz as it corrects for some of the irregularity in the wave as mentioned by spawth there.

[manikyath]

10 minutes ago, W-L said:

Pure sinewave ones tend to be the best option with stepped approximated right behind it where they ensure the PSU is compatible with the UPS since the PSU if it was overly sensitive or had a square wave would shut itself down thinking it's receiving bad power. The Cyberpower ones are pretty good, I'm partial to APC but overall as long as they are either pure sinewave or at the very least stepped approx it should work with all modern PSU's. 

i'm currently daisychaining two APC's mostly to filter out hideous junk on my local energy providing potato salad.

they're both (and a third unit form my modem in the garage) performing exceptionally well, seeing the horrible mess on my power grid.

 

as for the cyberpower units, someone on the forum had problems with them not doing very well under high load, but i dont know the exact story.

[zMeul]

pure sine is recommended for general purpose use when putting other equipment on that UPS - some equipment can behave erratically or simply shut down / lock up

but sim sine won't make a difference when used with PCs

[manikyath]

2 minutes ago, zMeul said:

pure sine is recommended for general purpose use when putting other equipment on that UPS - some equipment can behave erratically or simply shut down / lock up

but sim sine won't make a difference when used with PCs

well, my APC's arent the smoothest when kicking in, and they're stepped approximation.

 

if those things dont make my monitor lock up, but watever is going on on my power grid does, i doubt it's *that* immportant to have a pure sine.

[zMeul]

9 minutes ago, manikyath said:

APC

APC ... 

the consumer version ones, at least, are pure overpriced shit and I avoided them unless client specifically wanted one

[manikyath]

3 minutes ago, zMeul said:

APC ... 

the consumer version ones, at least, are pure overpriced shit and I avoided them unless client specifically wanted one

i actually really like mine, and compared to the other options i have they are actually pretty nicely priced.

 

and yes, they have insanely overpriced ones, but they have some "sweet spot" units that are actually fairly cheap for the wattage and battery life. that, and while they cant filter out all the crap on my energy grid, they do a DAMN good job at it.

[ThomasD]

22 minutes ago, zMeul said:

pure sine is recommended for general purpose use when putting other equipment on that UPS - some equipment can behave erratically or simply shut down / lock up

but sim sine won't make a difference when used with PCs

This is my understanding as well.  What I have been told is that simulated is more of a concern with high voltage transformers, where the square wave forms can cause the transformer to overheat if they are not speced  to handle the excess dissipation.

[zMeul]

3 minutes ago, manikyath said:

i actually really like mine

I especially like the ones without an AVR function - they were priced quite higher than other alternative brands with AVR

and their proprietary battery pack .. oh man

[W-L]

27 minutes ago, manikyath said:

i'm currently daisychaining two APC's mostly to filter out hideous junk on my local energy providing potato salad.

they're both (and a third unit form my modem in the garage) performing exceptionally well, seeing the horrible mess on my power grid.

as for the cyberpower units, someone on the forum had problems with them not doing very well under high load, but i dont know the exact story.

The APC units have a larger VA rating and lowered wattage rating from what I've seen but Cyberpower has improve from previously. The APC ones are good for certain types of load that have lower power factor to the Cyberpower ones but for PC's it shouldn't make a big difference. One thing though they do mention not to daisy chain UPS's as it doesn't benefit the unit downstream from the first unit. 

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

I especially like the ones without an AVR function - they were priced quite higher than other alternative brands with AVR

and their proprietary battery pack .. oh man

havent popped mine open yet, but i honestly wouldnt care about proprietary battery packs because

1: i may as well be russian with the crap i do to make stuff fit together.

2: their battery packs are the only lead acids i can get in my area

3: proprietary battert packs means you have to buy theirs, but it also means quality control. the unit you buy as a replacement will perform identical (or better - if technology improves) to the pack you had from the start. certainly in a place where you'll be pulling 700 watts from a battery the size of a lunchbox you want to MAKE SURE the battery is able to handle that, and that the device "knows" the battery its dealing with.

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

 proprietary battery packs means you have to buy theirs, but it also means quality control

and you're assuming the others don't have quality control!? APC is doing this to make a huge profit - just like ink printer manufacturers make profit of the cartridges

there are a lot of examples where you can find better battery than the factory installed one

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, W-L said:

The APC units have a larger VA rating and lowered wattage rating from what I've seen but Cyberpower has improve from previously. The APC ones are good for certain types of load that have lower power factor to the Cyberpower ones but for PC's it shouldn't make a big difference. One thing though they do mention not to daisy chain UPS's as it doesn't benefit the unit downstream from the first unit. 

its kind of an experiment, sadly i cant quite reproduce my problem, so its very much a "change every night and see how the next day goes" process. i'm gonna see if i can get a hold of the energy network provider's callcenter monday morning because it's been getting worse and worse by the day it seems.

 

today i actually had my raspberry pi act up seriously from fluctuations in wall power...

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

and you're assuming the others don't have quality control!? APC is doing this to make a huge profit - just like ink printer manufacturers make profit of the cartridges

there are a lot of examples where you can find better battery than the factory installed one

better in what way? in stuff like this you need to be *really* careful as to what you plug into them.

 

also, have you seen the guts of some generic brand lead acids?

besides-- mine use a "cardridge" thats LITERALLY two off the shelf batteries with a jumper, i mean, hard to replace that right?

also, from a quick price check their batteries dont seem that differently priced from "generic brand" off the shelf stuff.

(the generic brand i'm on about are eh. i've had experiences with other products of them that are less than satisfying)

[SydneySideSteveSomewheres]

Being in Australia I have not got the range of UPSes to choose from as there is in North America.

 

I purchased a 1000VA/700W online Pure Sinewave Digitech rack-mount UPS from Jaycar electronics

 

Unfortunately when it was purchased the bundled software that allowed the UPS to interact with my PC worked but now it does not.

Have tried to find another UPS that has Windows compatibility but have been unable to locate one. Might be something to consider when searching and qualifying your next UPS?