From an observation point: Why?

[xox]

To the people of the 'Interwebs';

 

Was just wondering why some are so strongly anti-theist. I am not personally a Christian or an Atheist; I remain a strong believer in what is there and do not base my beliefs on what others say, although, I am always open-minded and up for a debate. I would just like to ask some people why they do some things. r/Atheism is like a pack of wolves, who I would believe to feast on questioning theists what they believe and why.

 

If the whole point of Atheism is to not have a God, why are people behaving in a way that Atheism is a religion; by promoting the concept that there is no God they are basically doing the same as a theist, who actively promotes the concept that there is. So, why do people do such a thing? Religion is beneficial to people; it has health benefits and instils a sense of community into the people that are members of one. It makes up someone's personality and world view (for example, a Christian may feel it more necessary to be compassionate to others). So, isn't trying to change their religion a detriment to their personality; if it makes someone happy (even if it seems wrong to you) why question it and pull them away from a positive influence? Yes, you do get the extremists who fight in wars and are senseless martyrs, like the plane Hijackers of 9/11 and the bombers of the IRA in the 1970s,but in the majority of cases, religion is beneficial to people and unbiased onlookers look at this and see positivity in religion.

 

So however corrupt and senseless the Catholic Church is or however terrible the alleged mass-indoctrination of billions is, can't we all get on? After all, we synonymously want to better humanity.

 

I appeal to you all to leave each other alone and to just focus on the goal of not ripping each other apart, as I tell you: It is not nice to go to South Africa and see whole communities split about something as basic as Religion. Even closer to home, you see the riots on the News in Northern Ireland and you just feel nothing but utter sorrow. Why can't people accept others for who they are any more in the world? And shouldn't Atheists just be 'Conscientious objectors' to religion? Or do they need to be pestering religious people to give up something that is core in their personality?

 

Anyways, rant over. I don't mean to get all reggae on your asses, but as one famous singer once sung; 'Don't worry, be Happy'

 

-Tom

[szilyke]

I won't bother reading this since it's too long for me to handle right now.

[WoodenMarker]

Stuff like this is part of why some people are so strongly anti-theist. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjoEgYOgRo

 

I dare you to watch the whole thing (all 7 parts) through.

[xox]

Stuff like this is part of why some people are so strongly anti-theist. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjoEgYOgRo

 

I dare you to watch the whole thing (all 7 parts) through.

You get people like that though; people who I nor most agree with

[Aaanum1]

Be carful, discussing Religion can get touchy. A mod might wanna monitor this thread.

[xox]

Be carful, discussing Religion can get touchy. A mod might wanna monitor this thread.

Not discussing it, just inquiring about why people do that

[Aaanum1]

Not discussing it, just inquiring about why people do that

I know, but in my experience, if just mention religion and people tear you apart. Just giving you a heads up.

[aikoels]

I notice both sides of this.... I see plenty of people who go "GAY IS WRONG BECAUSE GOD" or "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL BECAUSE BIBLE" but at the same time I see plenty of "YOU ARE WRONG BECAUSE NO GOD!" this happens to both sides and I don't understand why people always blame one side more than the other... sure /r/atheism is a bad place for theists, but I bet a /r/theism would be equally bad... 

[xox]

I notice both sides of this.... I see plenty of people who go "GAY IS WRONG BECAUSE GOD" or "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL BECAUSE BIBLE" but at the same time I see plenty of "YOU ARE WRONG BECAUSE NO GOD!" this happens to both sides and I don't understand why people always blame one side more than the other... sure /r/atheism is a bad place for theists, but I bet a /r/theism would be equally bad... 

 

I see your point there, As I said earlier, I am appealing to both sides to cease bickering

[aikoels]

I see your point there, As I said earlier, I am appealing to both sides to cease bickering

Sorry if that seemed like an attack on you, I just mean (for example on youtube comments) I see plenty of people going "I hate theists because they are all rude bible thumpers." and I also see "I hate atheists for being so rude about religion." the thing that not many people seem to understand is that individual people are rude about their cause, not because they are theist/atheist but because they just tend to be rude in general. I understand that isn't what you are doing though

[linusforsell]

The problem starts and ends with peoples' mindset of having "a reason to live". We were not, and are not, beings created with a purpose of something grander in mind. We're just blobs of atoms neatly lumped together to form a conscious being. If people learned to accept that fact there would be no reason for people to fight over petty thing such as beliefs — or non-beliefs, for that matter. People just needs, excuse the phrasing, to get their shit together.

 

Our "reason to live" is created by our own consciousness, and is therefor not further seated than in our own need to live and, due to empathy and other "feelings", socialize and procreate. There is no god (yes, I do intentionally spell that with a small g). There does not have to be a god, everyone is capable of doing what is right.

 

While my feelings towards "beliefs" tends to put me in the camp of atheists, I'm not all to informed on what that group of people value, so I cannot comment on it.

[xox]

Sorry if that seemed like an attack on you, I just mean (for example on youtube comments) I see plenty of people going "I hate theists because they are all rude bible thumpers." and I also see "I hate atheists for being so rude about religion." the thing that not many people seem to understand is that individual people are rude about their cause, not because they are theist/atheist but because they just tend to be rude in general. I understand that isn't what you are doing though

I know what you mean, it is terrible to see people so split on such a trivial thing. And don't worry, it wasn't

[Ookami]

Dont care about any religion, goverment sides or favourite sports team. My "give a f*ck meter"when someone start sh*t like this is -9000. I scratch my balls and go "uhuh". Religion preference or lack of it, liberals or republicans, leftwing or rightwing, women masturbation vs men masturbation, bacon vs cheese and finally intel vs amd and amd vs nvidia - ill use quote from rap song - "i just dont give a fuck" i stay away from people like that who want to force their believes and rules on to you.

[dalekphalm]

To the people of the 'Interwebs';

 

Was just wondering why some are so strongly anti-theist. I am not personally a Christian or an Atheist; I remain a strong believer in what is there and do not base my beliefs on what others say, although, I am always open-minded and up for a debate. I would just like to ask some people why they do some things. r/Atheism is like a pack of wolves, who I would believe to feast on questioning theists what they believe and why.

 

If the whole point of Atheism is to not have a God, why are people behaving in a way that Atheism is a religion; by promoting the concept that there is no God they are basically doing the same as a theist, who actively promotes the concept that there is. So, why do people do such a thing? Religion is beneficial to people; it has health benefits and instils a sense of community into the people that are members of one. It makes up someone's personality and world view (for example, a Christian may feel it more necessary to be compassionate to others). So, isn't trying to change their religion a detriment to their personality; if it makes someone happy (even if it seems wrong to you) why question it and pull them away from a positive influence? Yes, you do get the extremists who fight in wars and are senseless martyrs, like the plane Hijackers of 9/11 and the bombers of the IRA in the 1970s,but in the majority of cases, religion is beneficial to people and unbiased onlookers look at this and see positivity in religion.

 

So however corrupt and senseless the Catholic Church is or however terrible the alleged mass-indoctrination of billions is, can't we all get on? After all, we synonymously want to better humanity.

 

I appeal to you all to leave each other alone and to just focus on the goal of not ripping each other apart, as I tell you: It is not nice to go to South Africa and see whole communities split about something as basic as Religion. Even closer to home, you see the riots on the News in Northern Ireland and you just feel nothing but utter sorrow. Why can't people accept others for who they are any more in the world? And shouldn't Atheists just be 'Conscientious objectors' to religion? Or do they need to be pestering religious people to give up something that is core in their personality?

 

Anyways, rant over. I don't mean to get all reggae on your asses, but as one famous singer once sung; 'Don't worry, be Happy'

 

-Tom

The idea that everyone can get along and be happy despite different religious or spiritual beliefs (And yes, atheism is spiritual, whether they admit it or not) is a good thing, yes.

 

However, the main issue I have with organized religions and viewpoints such as what you've stated is this:

"for example, a Christian may feel it more necessary to be compassionate to others"

 

The idea that to be compassionate, you must be religious, OR even worse, that you're only compassionate to others because your religion told you to be so.

 

Religion started out as a way to have a social moral guideline. A way to control society. Religion still has it's place, and many people still need it, however, it's place has changed.

 

Society and humanity has psychologically evolved enough that we don't need God, or a religion, to tell us to be compassionate, or to be good to others, or to form a social construct of good morals.

 

I'm a good person because I choose to be, not because God says I'll go to hell if I'm not. I'm generous because it's the right thing to do, not because I may get rewarded (bribed) with the promise of Heaven.

 

And no, that doesn't give me the right to say that religious beliefs are wrong, and that you can't be a muslim or christian because I don't agree with you. You get the freedom to form your own opinions about the place of religion, just as I do mine.

 

 

Though there's one thing I CANNOT stand, and that is governments pushing "Creationism" as a "Valid alternative to evolution" for teaching children in schools.

[xox]

 

The problem starts and ends with peoples' mindset of having "a reason to live". We were not, and are not, beings created with a purpose of something grander in mind. We're just blobs om atoms neatly lumped together to form a conscious being. If people learned to accept that fact there would be no reason for people to fight over petty thing such as beliefs — or non-beliefs, for that matter. People just needs, excuse the phrasing, to get their shit together.

 

Our "reason to live" is created by our own conscious, and is therefor not further seated than in our own need to live and, due to empathy and other "feelings", socialize and procreate. There is no god (yes, I do intentionally spell that with a small g). There does not have to be a god, everyone is capable of doing what is right.

 

While my feelings towards "beliefs" tends to put me in the camp of atheists, I'm not all to informed on what that group of people value, so I cannot comment on it.

 

Glad you have a world view... You are decidedly wise for looking at evidence before you make your mind up

 

 

Dont care about any religion, goverment sides or favourite sports team. My "give a f*ck meter"when someone start sh*t like this is -9000. I scratch my balls and go "uhuh". Religion preference or lack of it, liberals or republicans, leftwing or rightwing, women masturbation vs men masturbation, bacon vs cheese and finally intel vs amd and amd vs nvidia - ill use quote from rap song - "i just dont give a fuck" i stay away from people like that who want to force their believes and rules on to you.

It's probably besst to stay away from people who heckle others about their beliefs

 

 

The idea that everyone can get along and be happy despite different religious or spiritual beliefs (And yes, atheism is spiritual, whether they admit it or not) is a good thing, yes.

 

However, the main issue I have with organized religions and viewpoints such as what you've stated is this:

"for example, a Christian may feel it more necessary to be compassionate to others"

 

The idea that to be compassionate, you must be religious, OR even worse, that you're only compassionate to others because your religion told you to be so.

 

Religion started out as a way to have a social moral guideline. A way to control society. Religion still has it's place, and many people still need it, however, it's place has changed.

 

Society and humanity has psychologically evolved enough that we don't need God, or a religion, to tell us to be compassionate, or to be good to others, or to form a social construct of good morals.

 

I'm a good person because I choose to be, not because God says I'll go to hell if I'm not. I'm generous because it's the right thing to do, not because I may get rewarded (bribed) with the promise of Heaven.

 

And no, that doesn't give me the right to say that religious beliefs are wrong, and that you can't be a muslim or christian because I don't agree with you. You get the freedom to form your own opinions about the place of religion, just as I do mine.

 

 

Though there's one thing I CANNOT stand, and that is governments pushing "Creationism" as a "Valid alternative to evolution" for teaching children in schools.

I agree with most of your points; however, the last one is decidedly debatable; there is scientific evidence both ways, and Children should be able to base their belief system on unbiased evidence. After all, isn't that the way that the judiciary system works, both sides are heard before a verdict is made.

[Ookami]

Real truth is that world is sh*t now because everyone hate everyone because they dont believe in their religion, dont support same sport team damn even someone prefer sony tv than phillips one. If i met a guy that whos religion is islam and he aint ticking ( a little joke sorry guys most of you are cool) and i can talk to him and joke around i dont give a rat sh*t what his believes are or which team he support. More to it - if he can laugh from himself for example on stand up comedy when someone do a islamic joke then he is a rare person. I watch stand up comedy and hear jokes about non believers or on polish. I laugh my ass off, but 99% will be offended.

[xox]

Real truth is that world is sh*t now because everyone hate everyone because they dont believe in their religion, dont support same sport team damn even someone prefer sony tv than phillips one. If i met a guy that whos religion is islam and he aint ticking ( a little joke sorry guys most of you are cool) and i can talk to him and joke around i dont give a rat sh*t what his believes are or which team he support. More to it - if he can laugh from himself for example on stand up comedy when someone do a islamic joke then he is a rare person. I watch stand up comedy and hear jokes about non believers or on polish. I laugh my ass off, but 99% will be offended.

Granted, people get offended too easily. Religious debate needs to be more common and I would love it if people were more mentally sound and less defensive. And yeah, back when I was a Christian, I too laughed at the Catholic Church's patheticness. From my standpoint, I cannot comprehend how and why people get so touchy about it.

[SMURG]

Glad you have a world view... You are decidedly wise for looking at evidence before you make your mind up

 

 

It's probably besst to stay away from people who heckle others about their beliefs

 

 

I agree with most of your points; however, the last one is decidedly debatable; there is scientific evidence both ways, and Children should be able to base their belief system on unbiased evidence. After all, isn't that the way that the judiciary system works, both sides are heard before a verdict is made.

As someone who studies the sciences (primarily biology and chemistry) at the university level, I feel obliged to point out that the vast majority of the evidence available points towards a universe created in a manner at least similar to a "big flash" (it's not a bang without sound ), with life arising initially from a freak chemical occurrence and developing in an evolutionary manner from there. We can literally create new life, new cells, from the raw stuff of matter. This directly contradicts what most religions say about the creation of the universe and life, so all 'creationism' has left to claim is that a divine being was behind the whole model that science is able to piece together.

Even if that is the case (and I'm not saying it's not, though if it was then Jesus/Mohammed etc. were either lying or lied to) then it doesn't mean that evolution shouldn't be what is taught in schools.

I think it often comes down to the fact that atheists cannot identify with religious beliefs. I must admit that I find it hard to see how some of my religious (primarily muslim but also many christian) colleagues managed to reconcile what their religion says with what the evidence and hard facts of science say. On the odd occasion that the topic has come up, they are noticeably keen to move on from the subject so it's almost a taboo. This can often irritate atheists because the theists appear unable to defend their belief against cold hard fact; their arguments appear weak and their beliefs therefore unfounded. Atheists generally find the idea of believing something to be true despite there being no evidence for it to be fundamentally abhorrent, hence the tensions.

[Lyons]

The thing is that anti theists also ask the question, 'why'? In their eyes religion is pointless. It is unproven, unnecessary, and damaging. Like Linusforsell said, we have no purpose of being, no reason we are here, other than a physical consequence of our universe' beginning. Religion IS pointless for the most part, and arguments like, 'you need religion to be a good person' or 'without religion there would be no good without religion' are invalid and hold no ground. The human race doesn't need religion any more, we've surpassed it's intrinsic necessity and are ready to move on.

We have explanations for just about everything now, all you could possibly need a religious belief for is for a personal sense of purpose, but I honestly don't see how religion can even give you that any more. We are so, so, so insignificant in this universe, there is no sustainable possibility that we have a purpose or divine founding. It just doesn't work.

I know that many attach to religion because of the good people they know, but they hardly ever recognize the bad. Religious dictators who have started wars or people who have started wars based on religion probably outnumber atheist perpetrators by a factor of thousands, you can't cherry pick.

My view is that religion is no longer needed, and that it holds us back as a society. Anti theists are just a more extreme holder of this view, there are always people who hold values more strongly than others on certain topics. Theists that argue for creationism tend to be uneducated and honestly just lack the knowledge or capacity to do so.

[dalekphalm]

I agree with most of your points; however, the last one is decidedly debatable; there is scientific evidence both ways, and Children should be able to base their belief system on unbiased evidence. After all, isn't that the way that the judiciary system works, both sides are heard before a verdict is made.

I'm going to have to disagree here. There isn't any scientific evidence from reputable scientists that gives any credibility to creationism.

 

Some of the more radical organizations have done things such as get a "Scientist" to say that creationism has valid scientific points, but then it's later discovered that the "scientist" in question has a doctorate in medieval english literature, or some other field that has nothing to do with biology, anthropology, chemistry, etc.

 

If you want to debate the merits of creationism vs evolution in the classroom, you're more than welcome to post something to back up that claim.

 

For your reading, Project Steve:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve

 

Christian creationism, as well as other major religious creation beliefs and myths SHOULD be taught in school. But they should be taught in a theology or religion class, not in the Science classes.

[Rekhyt]

I agree with most of your points; however, the last one is decidedly debatable; there is scientific evidence both ways, and Children should be able to base their belief system on unbiased evidence. After all, isn't that the way that the judiciary system works, both sides are heard before a verdict is made.

 

But by virtue of their definitions, science is unbiased facts, and religion (i.e. faith) is the opposite of unbiased facts - or any facts at all. That's why religion doesn't get to legislate on what you teach in schools.

 

I'm aslo going to have to ask for the scientific evidence towards creationism.

[SMURG]

I'm going to have to disagree here. There isn't any scientific evidence from reputable scientists that gives any credibility to creationism.

 

Some of the more radical organizations have done things such as get a "Scientist" to say that creationism has valid scientific points, but then it's later discovered that the "scientist" in question has a doctorate in medieval english literature, or some other field that has nothing to do with biology, anthropology, chemistry, etc.

 

If you want to debate the merits of creationism vs evolution in the classroom, you're more than welcome to post something to back up that claim.

 

For your reading, Project Steve:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve

 

Christian creationism, as well as other major religious creation beliefs and myths SHOULD be taught in school. But they should be taught in a theology or religion class, not in the Science classes.

 

 

But by virtue of their definitions, science is unbiased facts, and religion (i.e. faith) is the opposite of unbiased facts - or any facts at all. That's why religion doesn't get to legislate on what you teach in schools.

 

I'm aslo going to have to ask for the scientific evidence towards creationism.

I second these requests for further evidence. As I said in my previous post, the evidence available puts forth a model which directly contradicts those of most major religions. Whilst not outright eliminating the possibility of a divine being, there's certainly no indication that there is one either. All we can say with any certainty is that if there is a God, he's certainly nothing like any of the prophets (Jesus/Mohammed etc.) made him out to be.

[xox]

The thing is that anti theists also ask the question, 'why'? In their eyes religion is pointless. It is unproven, unnecessary, and damaging. Like Linusforsell said, we have no purpose of being, no reason we are here, other than a physical consequence of our universe' beginning. Religion IS pointless for the most part, and arguments like, 'you need religion to be a good person' or 'without religion there would be no good without religion' are invalid and hold no ground. The human race doesn't need religion any more, we've surpassed it's intrinsic necessity and are ready to move on.

We have explanations for just about everything now, all you could possibly need a religious belief for is for a personal sense of purpose, but I honestly don't see how religion can even give you that any more. We are so, so, so insignificant in this universe, there is no sustainable possibility that we have a purpose or divine founding. It just doesn't work.

I know that many attach to religion because of the good people they know, but they hardly ever recognize the bad. Religious dictators who have started wars or people who have started wars based on religion probably outnumber atheist perpetrators by a factor of thousands, you can't cherry pick.

My view is that religion is no longer needed, and that it holds us back as a society. Anti theists are just a more extreme holder of this view, there are always people who hold values more strongly than others on certain topics. Theists that argue for creationism tend to be uneducated and honestly just lack the knowledge or capacity to do so.

I get what you are saying. But the whole point of Richard Dawkins' Anti-theism is to make the world a better place; as in his view, the world would indeed be a better place without religion. However, I must put to you the point that if religion is a positive in someone's life, eradicating it will inevitably have a negative impact on the world. And on a side note was just looking at your rig and thinking what a beast  

 

 

The thing is that anti theists also ask the question, 'why'? In their eyes religion is pointless. It is unproven, unnecessary, and damaging. Like Linusforsell said, we have no purpose of being, no reason we are here, other than a physical consequence of our universe' beginning. Religion IS pointless for the most part, and arguments like, 'you need religion to be a good person' or 'without religion there would be no good without religion' are invalid and hold no ground. The human race doesn't need religion any more, we've surpassed it's intrinsic necessity and are ready to move on.

We have explanations for just about everything now, all you could possibly need a religious belief for is for a personal sense of purpose, but I honestly don't see how religion can even give you that any more. We are so, so, so insignificant in this universe, there is no sustainable possibility that we have a purpose or divine founding. It just doesn't work.

I know that many attach to religion because of the good people they know, but they hardly ever recognize the bad. Religious dictators who have started wars or people who have started wars based on religion probably outnumber atheist perpetrators by a factor of thousands, you can't cherry pick.

My view is that religion is no longer needed, and that it holds us back as a society. Anti theists are just a more extreme holder of this view, there are always people who hold values more strongly than others on certain topics. Theists that argue for creationism tend to be uneducated and honestly just lack the knowledge or capacity to do so.

I agree with you. Except that religion doesn't hold us back (surely) if it has a positive impact. Although, in some ways, I have to agree with you, it does hold us back, and has for centuries.

[Ookami]

There isnt a chance to an open debate because there will always be that one person set on one point of view and anything youll say is wrong, any proof youll show is wrong and he is the only right. Im not talking about religion as only part in it. Politics, sports, music, games and even technology. To most people you cannot talk normal about anything because of their only-and-right-point of view. Worst thing is these people have children and they raise them on same believes (I dont intend to make fun nor insult anyone) like black people are killers and robbers. Some of the are but its the same with us "crackers", asian and whole damn world. Today we are all labeled - nerds - weak, small four eyes, black - robbers and killers, asians - small with little d*cks or polish - lazy effing c*nts who dont like to work, complain about everything and steal cars from germany. In some cases they are right, but not ALL are like that. But thats how most people were raised and are now (only example dont jump on me)- only right religion is being a catholic, stay away from black people, asians gonna beat the sh*t out of you, only real sport is basketball and the bulls team etc etc. Kids grow up and cycle continue...

[xox]

But by virtue of their definitions, science is unbiased facts, and religion (i.e. faith) is the opposite of unbiased facts - or any facts at all. That's why religion doesn't get to legislate on what you teach in schools.

 

I'm aslo going to have to ask for the scientific evidence towards creationism.

Just Google Stanley Millar. There is more to too, I was discussing it with my mate (and He was playing devils advocate) He said about some rock that some geologist found that was strong evidence for creationism. I agree with you that creationism most likely isn't real though.