Windows 10 Threshold 2 Removes Some Desktop Programs During Install

[MEC-777]

if they think its incompatible

id rather have them remove the programs for less problems..then have them keep it..and have it crash the pc or corrupt something

user can very easily reinstall the programs if they want

 

I agree with this, however, they need to inform the user with a list of programs/apps that were removed and why. As it stands, it just removes them with no further information and the user has to go searching for what was removed. This is unacceptable IMO. At least tell us what was removed. 

[Fetzie]

I had to run DDU and re-install Catalyst Control Centre after the update to Windows 10 Pro took it off the auto-start...

Oh, and it also reset the size of my RAMDisk to the minimum 256MB. Thanks Microsoft.

edit: it puts the uninstalled stuff in Windows.Old

[deviant88]

Thats why i use a ISO for clean install every major version and you dont, so you suffer.

[LAwLz]

You know what's interesting? I actually didn't have my Cisco AnyConnect VPN client uninstall, even though it was apparently supposed to?

And I'm running an older version: 3.1 because we haven't updated our subscription service  <_< .

It might only remove newer versions. Chances are they are using a blacklist. Cisco programs usually identity themselves with the specific version number even in things such as in the "Programs and Features" list in Windows, so it might just be that the blacklist didn't pick it up because of that.

 

 

I agree with this, however, they need to inform the user with a list of programs/apps that were removed and why. As it stands, it just removes them with no further information and the user has to go searching for what was removed. This is unacceptable IMO. At least tell us what was removed. 

I got a message telling me Speccy was removed. It was kind of a slap in the face though because I got the message after I got a message saying "All your files are exactly where you left them". Thanks for lying straight to my face Microsoft...

 

 

edit: it puts the uninstalled stuff in Windows.Old

I can't find my program that was removed in there. My guess is that it only puts programs that were located on C: in the Windows.old folder. If it was on for example D: they are gone.

 

 

 

I noticed that the update (at least on my computer) also resets the "Data Usage" tracker in settings -> Network & Internet.

Not a big deal for me but it might be good to warn people who potentially rely on it to not go over their data caps.

 

On top of that, my AMD drivers that automatically got installed seems incredibly unstable. I have had them crash on me 4 times so far since the update yesterday. Once they crash everything gets dark for a few seconds, Firefox completely crashes and any video I had playing goes completely dark and I have to restart the video player. It is super annoying so I am hoping a reinstall of the drivers will fix it. Seems like they removed the ability to block driver updates though so it is just a matter of time before this happens again.

[LukaP]

If you have had a program removed, try reinstalling it. I did so with Speccy and it works just fine. No compatibility issues as far as I can tell.

 

I really don't like Microsoft for doing this. Not only have they built in the functionality to remotely remove programs (even win32 applications), but they are already using it to remove a lot of programs.

What they shouldve done is id the programs that arent compatible, "lock" them in a safe secure environment and prompt you to check if they work. And with time make a database of those that do, so they dont have to "quarantine" them for people upgrading later on...

[LAwLz]

What they shouldve done is id the programs that arent compatible, "lock" them in a safe secure environment and prompt you to check if they work. And with time make a database of those that do, so they dont have to "quarantine" them for people upgrading later on...

Yeah that's what I think they should have done too. In the other thread I made the comparison with an anti-virus program. When that finds a potential threat it doesn't just delete the file and then tell you it did it. It puts the file in quarantine and then waits for you to say "delete" or "restore". This "compatibility assistant" is more aggressive with removing things than an anti-virus.

 

But to be brutally honest I don't think Microsoft has any business looking through which programs I got installed at all. It makes me doubt Windows 10 even more than I did before. That's a pretty big accomplishment considering I've been calling it spyware since day 1.

[Altecice]

If this is Microsoft's bidding, then I have one thing to say to them: Fuck you. Removing programs that I have installed when there is nothing wrong with them is just wrong.

 

When I updated to the latest W10 build, I was notified of CPU-Z being "incompatible" which makes no sense. Having to reinstall a program after upgrading builds even though it's perfectly compatible is irritating.

 

While I agree with you, I would rather have Microsoft uninstall possible incompatible programs rather than break my Windows install/update. It would however be nice if Microsoft produced a report listing what actions it has taken.

[LukaP]

Yeah that's what I think they should have done too. In the other thread I made the comparison with an anti-virus program. When that finds a potential threat it doesn't just delete the file and then tell you it did it. It puts the file in quarantine and then waits for you to say "delete" or "restore". This "compatibility assistant" is more aggressive with removing things than an anti-virus.

 

But to be brutally honest I don't think Microsoft has any business looking through which programs I got installed at all. It makes me doubt Windows 10 even more than I did before. That's a pretty big accomplishment considering I've been calling it spyware since day 1.

Yes its really damn agressive, and i didnt expect it....

 

Well here is where we differ. Given i know a bit about how this big data is processed, and how they dont actually know anything real about you, or even care about you (as an individual) i dont think of it as spying. But i do agree it should all together be an opt-in thing, not an opt-out, except maybe for insiders, to help with testing and stuff, like they had before July

[Shakaza]

Yeah that's what I think they should have done too. In the other thread I made the comparison with an anti-virus program. When that finds a potential threat it doesn't just delete the file and then tell you it did it. It puts the file in quarantine and then waits for you to say "delete" or "restore". This "compatibility assistant" is more aggressive with removing things than an anti-virus.

 

But to be brutally honest I don't think Microsoft has any business looking through which programs I got installed at all. It makes me doubt Windows 10 even more than I did before. That's a pretty big accomplishment considering I've been calling it spyware since day 1.

I keep wanting to like Windows 10, and I do for the most part, but things like this are really making me question if it's worth it. I don't think I'll be moving to Threshold 2 if I don't have to unless Microsoft decides to change the way it handles the removal of programs or does what @LukaP suggests.

[Nowak]

To be honest, I don't really like how they removed Speccy upon install either, especially since it seems to work, for the most part, just fine. I do like how they fixed a lot of the bugs, but there are some things I can't really defend about Windows 10.

[Thony]

Yea i got a msg about CPU-Z not being compatible and it was uninstalled...had to install it again.

[LAwLz]

Yes its really damn agressive, and i didnt expect it....

 

Well here is where we differ. Given i know a bit about how this big data is processed, and how they dont actually know anything real about you, or even care about you (as an individual) i dont think of it as spying. But i do agree it should all together be an opt-in thing, not an opt-out, except maybe for insiders, to help with testing and stuff, like they had before July

Well clearly they care about "me as an individual" since they assign me unique tracking IDs. Considering the fact that the vast majority (94.2%) of users can be uniquely identified from just their browser I think it is silly to argue that Microsoft could not track me, the individual, with all the data they are collecting (which is far more than just your browser fingerprint).

 

If they do it is up for debate (only Microsoft truly knows), but I don't think anyone can deny that they could using only the things already in Windows 10. That was not the case with previous versions of Windows. Microsoft and Google are pretty even now with what data harvesting capabilities they got and Google is doing it for sure. Both got the same motivation for doing it as well (both are in the search and ad industry) so I don't think suspicions are completely unjustified. Same with Facebook.

 

Having it opt-in would be great (like how it was back in Windows XP, Vista, 7 etc). Hell, I would be totally okay with having it opt-out as well. The part that really grinds my gear right now is that it isn't opt-out. It's mandatory with no way of disabling it. To make matters even worse, the privacy settings in the OS don't actually disable the things you expect them to. Did you disable Cortana? It still checks all your searches in the start menu.

[Sauron]

I'm SO going the KVM route in my next major system upgrade (more precisely, when I decide it's time to change cpu and get access to the iGPU). At this point the only reason for me to use windows is games, as I can do everything else that I need on linux just fine.

[LukaP]

Well clearly they care about "me as an individual" since they assign me unique tracking IDs. Considering the fact that the vast majority (94.2%) of users can be uniquely identified from just their browser I think it is silly to argue that Microsoft could not track me, the individual, with all the data they are collecting (which is far more than just your browser fingerprint).

 

If they do it is up for debate (only Microsoft truly knows), but I don't think anyone can deny that they could using only the things already in Windows 10. That was not the case with previous versions of Windows. Microsoft and Google are pretty even now with what data harvesting capabilities they got and Google is doing it for sure. Both got the same motivation for doing it as well (both are in the search and ad industry) so I don't think suspicions are completely unjustified. Same with Facebook.

 

Having it opt-in would be great (like how it was back in Windows XP, Vista, 7 etc). Hell, I would be totally okay with having it opt-out as well. The part that really grinds my gear right now is that it isn't opt-out. It's mandatory with no way of disabling it. To make matters even worse, the privacy settings in the OS don't actually disable the things you expect them to. Did you disable Cortana? It still checks all your searches in the start menu.

Im not sure how much you know about big data (which this is), but basically your "profile" is just a point in an N-dimensional graph, where dimensions represent how likely you are to behave in a certain way, with lines drawn between the center and "you" being your "personality". points that are close to you on that graph are the "people also looked at" stuff. I assume your ID is just your coordinates in that space (think XYZ, just more like xyzqprstu...) as its pretty much impossible to hit dead on to someone else with enough dimensions. 

 

Now what they do with that "personality" is they throw it into an algorithm, comparing similar ones (a cloud of points near you) and then outputing ad categories you are probably interested. sometimes they will also "stretch" your personality line outwards to "caricatureize" you and see a more highlevel view of what you like (eg for me, tech and game development would pull away from fashion even more than in reality) to try to serve even more focused content. 

 

In none of those processes is your identity needed, or known. But as ive said, its pretty much impossible to have two people on the exact same spot in a high dimensional space, so its unique in a way to you, and with loads and loads of work (comparing browser history, location, gender, age, time online, lost of other things) you can trace it back to a person, its not something people (at microsoft) will do because theyve got time to scratch their balls while Edge is compiling But if the data is to be given to somone (eg, NSA) your "anonymous" participation could soon be "unanonimised" (is that a word).

 

I wouldnt worry about it too much though

[elfensky]

Confirmed, it removed Speccy for me. I immediately reinstalled it, and it works without any problems.

[RagnarokDel]

what the hell is threshold 2?

[Arty]

what the hell is threshold 2?

"service pack 1" basically 

[RagnarokDel]

"service pack 1" basically 

oh thanks

[LAwLz]

Im not sure how much you know about big data (which this is), but basically your "profile" is just a point in an N-dimensional graph, where dimensions represent how likely you are to behave in a certain way, with lines drawn between the center and "you" being your "personality". points that are close to you on that graph are the "people also looked at" stuff. I assume your ID is just your coordinates in that space (think XYZ, just more like xyzqprstu...) as its pretty much impossible to hit dead on to someone else with enough dimensions. 

 

Now what they do with that "personality" is they throw it into an algorithm, comparing similar ones (a cloud of points near you) and then outputing ad categories you are probably interested. sometimes they will also "stretch" your personality line outwards to "caricatureize" you and see a more highlevel view of what you like (eg for me, tech and game development would pull away from fashion even more than in reality) to try to serve even more focused content. 

 

In none of those processes is your identity needed, or known. But as ive said, its pretty much impossible to have two people on the exact same spot in a high dimensional space, so its unique in a way to you, and with loads and loads of work (comparing browser history, location, gender, age, time online, lost of other things) you can trace it back to a person, its not something people (at microsoft) will do because theyve got time to scratch their balls while Edge is compiling But if the data is to be given to somone (eg, NSA) your "anonymous" participation could soon be "unanonimised" (is that a word).

 

I wouldnt worry about it too much though

I can't tell if you are disagreeing with me or not. You just said the same thing as I did but in far more detail. They collect a lot of data which is tied to you and could be traced back if they so desire.

 

I think you are greatly underestimating how much effort is required to track someone down with this copious amount of information though. It is not a difficult thing to do, especially not with all the resources companies like Microsoft, Google and Facebook got. Just your MAC address and nearby WiFi hotspots is enough to determine your coordinates down to just a few meters (Google does this all the time). Even if they can't tie all that data to me, the physical person, isn't creating a profile of me which contains everything about me, interests, behavior, what devices I use etc, just as bad? That's what a lot of malware does and I don't feel good about giving them personal information either.

 

I don't worry that much about it, hence why I use Windows 10. I do think that this is a very bad trend though and I would be very happy if it stopped.

[LukaP]

I can't tell if you are disagreeing with me or not. You just said the same thing as I did but in far more detail. They collect a lot of data which is tied to you and could be traced back if they so desire.

 

I think you are greatly underestimating how much effort is required to track someone down with this copious amount of information though. It is not a difficult thing to do, especially not with all the resources companies like Microsoft, Google and Facebook got. Just your MAC address and nearby WiFi hotspots is enough to determine your coordinates down to just a few meters (Google does this all the time). Even if they can't tie all that data to me, the physical person, isn't creating a profile of me which contains everything about me, interests, behavior, what devices I use etc, just as bad? That's what a lot of malware does and I don't feel good about giving them personal information either.

 

I don't worry that much about it, hence why I use Windows 10. I do think that this is a very bad trend though and I would be very happy if it stopped.

i agree partially

 

oh no, im fully aware of the amount of work that goes into the point -> person conversion, as ive tried to do it myself on a simpler implementation. Its a lot. And i promise no company will do this if the benefits arent huge. Given MS has no benefit from knowing your identity, they wont do it. All they care about is their telemetry, so they can optimise W10 even more to our liking, and what you do online, so they can serve you sexy ads you like. 

If they were to be NSA for example, they wouldnt care about points on that graph at all, they would want to identify the person behind that point. That would worry me, but since MS is actively denying NSA any and all data (to the point of relocating its databases to germany), i dont have any worries about that. (and even then NSA has no authority here anyway)

 

Yeah i personally would like to see the "usage statistics" trend stop very much, but the reality is, we like it. we like the commodity. the fast search, the great browsers, OS's, devices. All of it we like, and the price we pay for it is, that some data gets collected. And i much rather live in a world where i have google, W10 and iOS, but pay for it with being a point on a graph in some database, than not being a point and relying on some crappy search engine, a nokia brick and w95

[JerkyMcDilerino]

Sure, why not?

Well, it a old anti malware program, and i don't even know if their detections is face to face with Malwarebytes. Anyway, i do receive a message from Microsoft stated that they have remove CPU-Z from my computer, but when i check my CPU-Z installation destination it still there. Weird. 

[LAwLz]

If they were to be NSA for example, they wouldnt care about points on that graph at all, they would want to identify the person behind that point. That would worry me, but since MS is actively denying NSA any and all data (to the point of relocating its databases to germany), i dont have any worries about that. (and even then NSA has no authority here anyway)

I think that's just a PR move. According to the leaked documents from Snowden, Microsoft was collaborating with the NSA for many many years without doing anything like this (they were actually a lot quicker than other companies to agree). It was only once they were caught they started announcing things like them moving their data centers to Germany.

If they had started taking actions BEFORE it was revealed then I would have applauded them. They were caught with their pants down and hands in the cookie jar, and it was just after that happened they started to "care" about their users privacy. Before that they were handing it over on silver platters.

 

 

Yeah i personally would like to see the "usage statistics" trend stop very much, but the reality is, we like it. we like the commodity. the fast search, the great browsers, OS's, devices. All of it we like, and the price we pay for it is, that some data gets collected. And i much rather live in a world where i have google, W10 and iOS, but pay for it with being a point on a graph in some database, than not being a point and relying on some crappy search engine, a nokia brick and w95

We don't need this data harvesting for great browsers, OSes and devices. Just look at Firefox, Windows 7 and the iPhone.

Clearly I want to use things like Google instead of crappy search engines too, and I think my data is worth the trade. However, it is certainly not a requirement for them to get my data in order to give me a good service. It's just a recent trend that we have to sacrifice things such as privacy in order to get access to good services.

[LukaP]

I think that's just a PR move. According to the leaked documents from Snowden, Microsoft was collaborating with the NSA for many many years without doing anything like this (they were actually a lot quicker than other companies to agree). It was only once they were caught they started announcing things like them moving their data centers to Germany.

If they had started taking actions BEFORE it was revealed then I would have applauded them. They were caught with their pants down and hands in the cookie jar, and it was just after that happened they started to "care" about their users privacy. Before that they were handing it over on silver platters.

 

 

We don't need this data harvesting for great browsers, OSes and devices. Just look at Firefox, Windows 7 and the iPhone.

Clearly I want to use things like Google instead of crappy search engines too, and I think my data is worth the trade. However, it is certainly not a requirement for them to get my data in order to give me a good service. It's just a recent trend that we have to sacrifice things such as privacy in order to get access to good services.

It may be a PR trick, they may have actually started to care. im kinda thinking the latter, because they have no benefits in giving NSA the data, but touting themselves as being the ones that refuse can get them users. Time will tell

 

Its not necessary, but as ive said, this is the price we have to pay. Its not necessary for me to pay 100 000€ for a fully restored original BMW M5, but its damn convenient and i cant really change the price.

[WereCat]

Well, it a old anti malware program, and i don't even know if their detections is face to face with Malwarebytes. Anyway, i do receive a message from Microsoft stated that they have remove CPU-Z from my computer, but when i check my CPU-Z installation destination it still there. Weird. 

I use both Malwayrebytes and Spybot. Spybot is updated even more frequently than Malwarebytes by the way.

[thorpj]

 

Nothing was removed for me. 

 

 

I think it's more of a "It could cause problems if you run it in this very specific scenario" than a "This won't run at all so we're removing it" Regardless, I don't think MS should be doing this. Inform the user there may be compatibility issues and then ask if they want the effect programs remove or not before installation. I'm not on a Mac, I don't need my hand held and told what I can and can't do with my hardware/software.

 

That's even worse!

 

Microsoft should just put a notification in action centre saying "program ____ may cause problems, because it is incompatible with this version of windows".

 

A noob can click uninstall or ignore it and wait for update that will make it compatible, or a techie can just ignore it, because we know what we're doing.