fucking kill me pls

[Hackzzila]

I am aware of how object inspector works but the point remains.

 

Hacking is using an unauthorised method to gain access to something which you ordinarily should not have access to. Yes I know how much of a douche that makes me sound but the fact is, he did use an unauthorised method to change something he shouldn't have been able to change, thats hacking.

 

I work in a school myself and I know you all think schools are dumb but thats just not the case, you can't give any of the students anything, give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Rules have to be inforced, no matter how minor the offence is (and yeah, changing the website on a locally stored copy is about as minor as you can get) they still have to punish him just to show the other kids what will happen if they mess with the network infrastructure. Thats life, he did the crime so he faced the time.

 

And by the way you totally ignored it in my post I'm guessing he also did insult someone of something too which is very likely the reason for his suspension, not the actual hacking he did.

There is nothing wrong with using that tool, I used it to find a way to fix the school's website.

[I need a better name]

what if i don't want to kill you?

[sirtoby]

I am aware of how object inspector works but the point remains.

 

Hacking is using an unauthorised method to gain access to something which you ordinarily should not have access to. Yes I know how much of a douche that makes me sound but the fact is, he did use an unauthorised method to change something he shouldn't have been able to change, thats hacking.

 

I work in a school myself and I know you all think schools are dumb but thats just not the case, you can't give any of the students anything, give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Rules have to be inforced, no matter how minor the offence is (and yeah, changing the website on a locally stored copy is about as minor as you can get) they still have to punish him just to show the other kids what will happen if they mess with the network infrastructure. Thats life, he did the crime so he faced the time.

 

And by the way you totally ignored it in my post I'm guessing he also did insult someone of something too which is very likely the reason for his suspension, not the actual hacking he did.

Thanks for playing devils advocate here. I agree, there have to be rules and these have to be enforced, but you have to keep in mind that messing around with computers often has great educational value, especially if it's in a controlled environment. I got into networking by figuring out a way to shut down other PCs in the room via the command line when I was 12, and how to hide the folder with CS 1.6 from the admins. This taught me a lot and more importantly, left me hungry to learn more. Give students these possibilities. And if you're worried that they'll do damage, then let me say: They won't if the admin did his job properly. If a 13 year old can hack the school network, then the admin did a shit job or the kid is amazing and should get into a  scholarship program. School is supposed to teach kids things, not to hinder them learning.

[Master Disaster]

So, you're seaying he didn't have authorised* access to a copy of the site's page? As that's what you're saying, he accessed the site without authorisation to do so. 

 

He didn't access any data without authorisation, as he did have authorisation to access it; that's how the page was magically rendered onto his screen.... 

 

(we're specifically talking about whether it was 'hacking' or not)

 

Hmm, so he had permission to view the source code of the schools webpage then i assume?

 

Listen, when your in a school environment this stuff has to be taken seriously, todays object inspector is tomorrows network hacker. As I said, when your dealing with children and computers, give them an inch and they'll take a mile, i know it, you know it.

 

Did your friend change something he should not have been able to? Yes he did so therefore he did the crime. Was the punishment fit for the crime? IMO no, it wasn't and if someone came to me and showed me that I'd of laughed and hit refresh then give him a bit of a bollocking over it. Your school did what they thought was the right thing and thats their perogative.

 

 

There is nothing wrong with using that tool, I used it to find a way to fix the school's website.

 

I never suggested there was, at the right time and in the right place its a great tool for developers.

[Hackzzila]

Hmm, so he had permission to view the source code of the schools webpage then i assume?

 

Listen, when your in a school environment this stuff has to be taken seriously, todays object inspector is tomorrows network hacker. As I said, when your dealing with children and computers, give them an inch and they'll take a mile, i know it, you know it.

 

Did your friend change something he should not have been able to? Yes he did so therefore he did the crime. Was the punishment fit for the crime? IMO no, it wasn't and if someone came to me and showed me that I'd of laughed and hit refresh then give him a bit of a bollocking over it. Your school did what they thought was the right thing and thats their perogative.

 

 

 

I never suggested there was, at the right time and in the right place its a great tool for developers.

What is wrong with viewing the source code? I can do that all I want,

[Guest]

Hmm, so he had permission to view the source code of the schools webpage then i assume?

 

Listen, when your in a school environment this stuff has to be taken seriously, todays object inspector is tomorrows network hacker. As I said, when your dealing with children and computers, give them an inch and they'll take a mile, i know it, you know it.

 

Did your friend change something he should not have been able to? Yes he did so therefore he did the crime. Was the punishment fit for the crime? IMO no, it wasn't and if someone came to me and showed me that I'd of laughed and hit refresh then give him a bit of a bollocking over it. Your school did what they thought was the right thing and thats their perogative.

 

 

Lets step back a second; the question was whether or not it was hacking. I said it wasn't, as he had authorisation to view the webpage (as the page is delivered in its source code, no? It's just the browser that does the work of rendering it). So, actually, he didn't not have authority to view the source code, as that's how it's given to the client... If the server didn't want to give the client authorisation to view the page's source code, it would ignore the request, right? As if it honours the request, it's going to have to send the client the data that's being requested.

 

I'm not saying whether what he did was right or wrong, my point was whether it's hacking or not. Which, as far as I can tell, manipulating the source code of a website on your local copy is not. 

[Master Disaster]

Inspect element, nigga.

It's literally changing the local RAM to whatever you want, not changing the god damn server's data.

 

WOW, go and read everything before jumping in to a shallow pool and hitting your head on the bottom.

 

And its not in RAM either, it would have changed the local copy stored on the local fileserver (or on the local machine depending on how the network is setup).

 

 

 

Lets step back a second; the question was whether or not it was hacking. I said it wasn't, as he had authorisation to view the webpage (as the page is delivered in its source code, no? It's just the browser that does the work of rendering it). So, actually, he didn't not have authority to view the source code, as that's how it's given to the client... If the server didn't want to give the client authorisation to view the page's source code, it would ignore the request, right?

 

I'm not saying whether what he did was right or wrong, my point was whether it's hacking or not. Which, as far as I can tell, manipulating the source code of a website on your local copy is not.

 

And i've already given you the definition of hacking, accept it or not i really don't care.

 

Can he change the website without manipulating a developer tool to do so? No he can't. Did he have permission to alter the local copy? No he didn't.

 

Viewing the site and making changes to a copy of it are two entirely different thing.

 

And no, AFAIK you can't tell a server to ignore a request to inspect a website.

[PlayStation 2]

WOW, go and read everything before jumping in to a shallow pool and hitting your head on the bottom.

 

And its not in RAM either, it would have changed the local copy stored on the server (or on the local machine depending on how the network is setup).

 

He did it in google chrome, so only the locally loaded copy of the website was changed, not the actual one on the server.

nice meme

[sirtoby]

WOW, go and read everything before jumping in to a shallow pool and hitting your head on the bottom.

 

And its not in RAM either, it would have changed the local copy stored on the server (or on the local machine depending on how the network is setup).

Unless the network is set up in a VERY odd way, I can't see how this would be possible. You still need Admin/Root privilege to change the server's copy of the website, if I'm not very much mistaken.

[Master Disaster]

Unless the network is set up in a VERY odd way, I can't see how this would be possible. You still need Admin/Root privilege to change the server's copy of the website, if I'm not very much mistaken.

 

No. i meant it would be stored in a temp folder either on the schools local fileserver or on the local machines hard disc, obviously not on the webserver itself.

 

I've updated my post to reflect this as it was a bit misleading.

[sirtoby]

No. i meant it would be stored in a temp folder either on the schools local fileserver or on the local machines hard disc, obviously not on the webserver itself.

Indeed, but this will then be loaded into the ram in some form. Even if it wasn't, I can't really see how this is supposed to do harm. As I mentioned in my first post, using this as a way to teach kids about computers and networks is great. 

[Master Disaster]

Indeed, but this will then be loaded into the ram in some form. Even if it wasn't, I can't really see how this is supposed to do harm. As I mentioned in my first post, using this as a way to teach kids about computers and networks is great. 

 

In a controlled environment I couldn't agree with you more.

 

These type of children should be encouraged to persue this type of thing but it should always be done with supervision and should always be done with permission. You can't let children run havok on your network, its akin to network suicide.

 

Plus as I said way back in my first post, its likely he changed some things which either insulted the school or the teachers in the school which is why he got such a massive punishment for it. OP has avoided the question of what changes he actually made twice now.

[sirtoby]

In a controlled environment I couldn't agree with you more.

 

These type of children should be encouraged to persue this type of thing but it should always be done with supervision and should always be done with permission. You can't let children run havok on your network, its akin to network suicide.

 

Plus as I said way back in my first post, its likely he changed some things which either insulted the school or the teachers in the school which is why he got such a massive punishment for it. OP has avoided the question of what changes he actually made twice now.

Yeah, OP could be a bit clearer about that. 

The reason that I'm Talking about this topic in such extend, is the fact that it's being done already and ends up saving work for the admin. When I was in my second to last year in high school (2011) my state released a new best practice for the IT infrastructure. This meant that the school network was self healing. You were allowed to do anything to the PC, and whatever you did was undone with the next restart. Your files are stored on a storage server. I was a computer science major and it was flipping awesome. 

[NinjaJc01]

Sounds like my school.. A kid opened BIOS and was accused of hacking when the PC bleeped... Even though BIOS was locked down.

[Trik'Stari]

School mentality: "HOW DARE YOU LEARN OR HAVE BEEN EDUCATED IN SOMETHING WE DID NOT PROVIDE!"

[TopDollar]

That's ok, I can get fired for sticking a usb device into my work computer.

[Aruxx]

My computer teacher tells her students to shut down from Windows, instead of the button on the hard drive.  :mellow:

[I need a better name]

That's ok, I can get fired for sticking a usb device into my work computer.

hope you didn't like that job

[sirtoby]

hope you didn't like that job

That's the proper way to handle network security at a company. If their network gets infiltrated they may loose millions of dollars.

[TopDollar]

hope you didn't like that job

Hah, that's at my current job and it's an IT security thing. Wouldn't want Joe Six-Pack walking into work and sticking his virus infected flash drive into a network attached computer. Was just commenting to show the lunacy of suspending a kid for hitting CTRL+U on his computer

[ICantThinkOfAnyGoodName]

My computer teacher tells her students to shut down from Windows, instead of the button on the hard drive.  :mellow:

There's a button on the hard drive? Where?

(Yes I know that you actually meant the button on the case)

[TopDollar]

There's a button on the hard drive? Where?

(Yes I know that you actually meant the button on the case)

Clearly what she meant was to pull the SATA cable out of the hard drive every time. Do you not already do this?

[sirtoby]

Clearly what she meant was to pull the SATA cable out of the hard drive every time. Do you not already do this?

Nope, I always pour petrol over the PC and set it on fire, every time I'm done

[TopDollar]

Nope, I always pour petrol over the PC and set it on fire, every time I'm done

Ah ok, I've always heard that the Shotgun method works better. Installing a couple slugs into the computer makes it turn off rather quickly.

[TetraSky]

School suspending kids is a terrible idea to begin with.

"Oh you didn't go to this class a few times? Alright, don't come back to school for a few days! That will show ya!"

Because missing more classes is totally going to help that kid isn't it. I don't know who's the genius that thought this was a good idea.

If anything it will just set the kid back compared to the rest of the class, which he/she may never catch back up, end up failing their school years and what not... Way to destroy a kid's future, that doesn't know any better, because they are kids.

 

Now I could understand a suspension if it was related to something like fighting, drugs, weapons in school, but everything else should just be a simple punishment where the kid stays after class for a few days, to do extra school work.