more bad news for AMD, they'll cut 5% workforce

[patrickjp93]

I'm also legitimately curious, could you provide a source please? AFAIK, in DX12, the 390X still dominates the 980 in both AotS and Fable. I'd be really interested to see how the new drivers have affected this.

It was on extreme tech or kit guru about a week ago. In class right now.

Edit: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/214834-fable-legends-amd-and-nvidia-go-head-to-head-in-latest-directx-12-benchmark

There was a later update. Apparently the test rig had a PSU issue that held back 980, 390/X, 980TI, and Fury X. The numbers have rebalanced slightly in favor of AMD since the retest, but it's not like Nvidia is behind by much.

Edit 2: in AOTS, Nvidia is now winning. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/30/no-directx-12-wont-save-advanced-micro-devices-inc.aspx

Edit 3: As always, source provided, and the facts lay in my favor on both counts

[iamdarkyoshi]

#shotsfired

[Notional]

It was on extreme tech or kit guru about a week ago. In class right now.

Edit: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/214834-fable-legends-amd-and-nvidia-go-head-to-head-in-latest-directx-12-benchmark

There was a later update. Apparently the test rig had a PSU issue that held back 980, 390/X, 980TI, and Fury X. The numbers have rebalanced slightly in favor of AMD since the retest, but it's not like Nvidia is behind by much.

Edit 2: in AOTS, Nvidia is now winning. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/30/no-directx-12-wont-save-advanced-micro-devices-inc.aspx

Edit 3: As always, source provided, and the facts lay in my favor on both counts

 

What are you talking about? Extremetech shows AMD's own benchmarks, where even a 290 beats a 980. We knows this is biased, but every other benchmark on the net shows a 390x beating a 980 at 100$ less.

 

Your second source is fool.com? Lol seriously you couldn't make this up :lol: That source used Ars technica so why not use that directly? ​That shows a 390x being close to a 980ti making NVidia's performance even more pathetic.

 

What is it you believe you've proven? That a 980ti is the only NVidia card performing somewhat decently? All other sucks.

[patrickjp93]

What are you talking about? Extremetech shows AMD's own benchmarks, where even a 290 beats a 980. We knows this is biased, but every other benchmark on the net shows a 390x beating a 980 at 100$ less.

Your second source is fool.com? Lol seriously you couldn't make this up :lol: That source used Ars technica so why not use that directly? ​That shows a 390x being close to a 980ti making NVidia's performance even more pathetic.

What is it you believe you've proven? That a 980ti is the only NVidia card performing somewhat decently? All other sucks.

Read the whole review. Before the update the 980 was beating the 290X/390X by about 5%. It's only now they've changed to quoting AMD's reference benches since theirs fell I line.

I used fool because that's what came up first, and it's a perfectly legitimate source. Attacking the provider of the material when the material is solid is the hallmark of fallacy. The 390X is not close to the 980Ti in Fable, so what crack are you smoking?

[Misanthrope]

This is actually good news for AMD, becoming more lean and efficient, will most likely save them in the long run. Yeah its bad news for employees, but it's business, nothing in comparison to Qantas. 

You will find that we might even see even more value coming out of AMD than before, I personally prefer the other team, but still. 

 

No: the way this go is that low level employees are let go and the idiotic managers who made the lousy decisions get bonuses for trimming their workforce.

[HKZeroFive]

It was on extreme tech or kit guru about a week ago. In class right now.

Edit: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/214834-fable-legends-amd-and-nvidia-go-head-to-head-in-latest-directx-12-benchmark

There was a later update. Apparently the test rig had a PSU issue that held back 980, 390/X, 980TI, and Fury X. The numbers have rebalanced slightly in favor of AMD since the retest, but it's not like Nvidia is behind by much.

Edit 2: in AOTS, Nvidia is now winning. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/30/no-directx-12-wont-save-advanced-micro-devices-inc.aspx

Edit 3: As always, source provided, and the facts lay in my favor on both counts

But the reviewer at ExtremeTech didn't even have a 390X? He says right here:

In our initial coverage for this article, we included a set of AMD-provided test results. This was mostly done for practical reasons — I don’t actually have an R9 390X, 390, or R9 380, and therefore couldn’t compare performance in the midrange graphics stack

In fact, he uses AMD's provided benchmarks, in which he justifies:

There’s no evidence that AMD lied or misconstrued the GTX 980’s performance. Neither did Tech Report. Frankly, we prefer testing retail hardware when such equipment is available, but since GPU vendors tend to charge a premium for higher-clocked GPUs, it’s difficult to select any single card and declare it representative.

[spoiler=ExtremeTech Benchmarks]

Those benchmarks clearly show the 390X beating the 980. And just saying, that's your evidence for your argument that the latest drivers have apparently allowed the 980 to surpass the 390X. Not looking good.

Secondly, in your second source, there's absolutely no mention of the 390X getting beaten by the 980 in AotS. In fact, the source only uses Ars Technica's benchmarks in which both the 980 and 390X are not getting benchmarked! Where is this supposed latest driver benchmarks of AotS?

You clearly said:

Since Nvidia's latest driver the 390X isn't winning any battles, got news for you. AOTS and Fable now both show Nvidia in the lead pretty much across the board.

There's no indication of this on both of the sources you have submitted! This really baffles me. The facts don't lie in your favour at all!

[Notional]

Read the whole review. Before the update the 980 was beating the 290X/390X by about 5%. It's only now they've changed to quoting AMD's reference benches since theirs fell I line.

I used fool because that's what came up first, and it's a perfectly legitimate source. Attacking the provider of the material when the material is solid is the hallmark of fallacy. The 390X is not close to the 980Ti in Fable, so what crack are you smoking?

 

I did. There's not a single benchmark ever that has shown a 980 beat a 390x. Not in any of your sources either. You must either be confusing 980 and 980ti or 390x and 390. NVidia still has the koth card in 980ti, but gets rekt on very other card.

[patrickjp93]

But the reviewer at ExtremeTech didn't even have a 390X? He says right here:

In fact, he uses AMD's provided benchmarks, in which he justifies:

[spoiler=ExtremeTech Benchmarks]

Those benchmarks clearly show the 390X beating the 980. And just saying, that's your evidence for your argument that the latest drivers have apparently allowed the 980 to surpass the 390X. Not looking good.

Secondly, in your second source, there's absolutely no mention of the 390X getting beaten by the 980 in AotS. In fact, the source only uses Ars Technica's and AnandTech's benchmarks in which both the 980 and 390X are not getting benchmarked! Where is this supposed latest driver benchmarks of AotS?

You clearly said:

There's no indication of this on both of the sources you have submitted!

There's indication in both. With the Fury X not keeping up, you don't need the 390X, which is just a slightly lower electrical power 290X, which was in the benchmark anyway. Is inductive reasoning difficult for you? If A then be. If for i=0 to n f(i), then if f(k) is true, f(k+1) is true. It's the same reasoning structure minus mathematical notation, and it's a valid proof. The 290X is a 390X with slightly higher power requirements. Everything else is equivalent. My claim holds on both fronts.

[patrickjp93]

I did. There's not a single benchmark ever that has shown a 980 beat a 390x. Not in any of your sources either. You must either be confusing 980 and 980ti or 390x and 390. NVidia still has the koth card in 980ti, but gets rekt on very other card.

Look at the fool source and read the ones from Anandtech. 980 wins.

[Notional]

Look at the fool source and read the ones from Anandtech. 980 wins.

 

Anandtech's benchmark doesn't include a 980, only a 980ti. It's even a 290x they use. No benchmark shows the 980 beating a 390x. Please give a direct link to a benchmark image that proves your point, because you haven't yet.

[MageTank]

Edit 3: As always, source provided, and the facts lay in my favor on both counts

Ha,, good one.

[HKZeroFive]

There's indication in both. With the Fury X not keeping up, you don't need the 390X, which is just a slightly lower electrical power 290X, which was in the benchmark anyway. Is inductive reasoning difficult for you? If A then be. If for i=0 to n f(i), then if f(k) is true, f(k+1) is true. It's the same reasoning structure minus mathematical notation, and it's a valid proof. The 290X is a 390X with slightly higher power requirements. Everything else is equivalent. My claim holds on both fronts.

Inductive reasoning is not evidence - straight from Wikipedia: 'rather, the premises of an inductive logical argument indicate some degree of support (inductive probability) for the conclusion but do not entail it; that is, they suggest truth but do not ensure it'. I'm assuming all that mathematical 'stuff' was mathematical induction - even in that, you have to assume a number equals to so-and-so. But that's besides the point.

Here you go:

That clearly shows the 390X beating the 980 in 1080p, and is on-par with it in 4K.

Source: http://techreport.com/review/29090/fable-legends-directx-12-performance-revealed/2

That's solid evidence mate. You can't deny it.

[mikat]

Amd isn't dead yet? 

AmDead?

[VagabondWraith]

Inductive reasoning is not evidence. In fact, part of mathematical induction is that you have that ASSUME that n equals 1, and then go from there.

Here you go:

That clearly shows the 390X beating the 980 in 1080p, and is on-par with it in 4K.

Source: http://techreport.com/review/29090/fable-legends-directx-12-performance-revealed/2

That's solid evidence mate. You can't deny it.

Damn. 980 Ti beating the shit out of everything.

[patrickjp93]

Inductive reasoning is not evidence - straight from Wikipedia: 'rather, the premises of an inductive logical argument indicate some degree of support (inductive probability) for the conclusion but do not entail it; that is, they suggest truth but do not ensure it'. I'm assuming all that mathematical 'stuff' was mathematical induction - even in that, you have to assume a number equals to so-and-so. But that's besides the point.

Here you go:

That clearly shows the 390X beating the 980 in 1080p, and is on-par with it in 4K.

Source: http://techreport.com/review/29090/fable-legends-directx-12-performance-revealed/2

That's solid evidence mate. You can't deny it.

Inductive reasoning is evidence when the base case or basis is true, which it is. That bench is old.

[HKZeroFive]

Inductive reasoning is evidence when the base case or basis is true, which it is. That bench is old.

Thing is, where are your supposed benchmarks of the latest drivers that show the 390X getting beaten by the 980? Oh, I forgot, since you haven't provided any benchmarks or sources that show that, that must mean it's bullshit. The benchmarks I've provided actually exist.

[MageTank]

-Snip Diddilydodad-

I want to point out that these cards are non-reference and using their factory OC's. People are likely to see better FPS than what is represented in this graph on both sides of the spectrum if they OC things manually. Just pointing that out. I don't know about the lower end AMD cards, but the Fury X does not OC well at all. Maxwell on the other hand, OC's like nothing i've ever seen before. In this review you posted, the 980 Ti is only boosting to 1317 as a strix, but i've seen several people having their Strix 980 Ti's boost to 1450-1500+. 

 

That being said, i 100% agree that the 390x is a better deal than the GTX 980. It's priced aggressively, it performs absolutely amazing against GPU's in a higher price bracket, and has decent staying power if you intend to play at 1440p. 

[ivan134]

- snip

Wait, his evidence of a new driver that gives Nvidia better performance in AOTS and Fable Legends is doing mental gymnastics on old benchmarks?

[HKZeroFive]

I want to point out that these cards are non-reference and using their factory OC's. People are likely to see better FPS than what is represented in this graph on both sides of the spectrum if they OC things manually. Just pointing that out. I don't know about the lower end AMD cards, but the Fury X does not OC well at all. Maxwell on the other hand, OC's like nothing i've ever seen before. In this review you posted, the 980 Ti is only boosting to 1317 as a strix, but i've seen several people having their Strix 980 Ti's boost to 1450-1500+.

That being said, i 100% agree that the 390x is a better deal than the GTX 980. It's priced aggressively, it performs absolutely amazing against GPU's in a higher price bracket, and has decent staying power if you intend to play at 1440p.

Don't worry, only using this to show poor Patrick that the 390X beats the 980 in Fable. Still waiting for these benchmarks with the latest drivers that show the reverse situation.

[MageTank]

Wait, his evidence of a new driver that gives Nvidia better performance in AOTS and Fable Legends is doing mental gymnastics on old benchmarks?

Mental gymnastics you say?

 

[HKZeroFive]

Wait, his evidence of a new driver that gives Nvidia better performance in AOTS and Fable Legends is doing mental gymnastics on old benchmarks?

Feel free to interpret his 'evidence'

Is inductive reasoning difficult for you? If A then be. If for i=0 to n f(i), then if f(k) is true, f(k+1) is true. It's the same reasoning structure minus mathematical notation, and it's a valid proof

Because somehow math shows that the 980 is beating a 390X in DX12 Fable! It's flawless evidence!

[MageTank]

Feel free to interpret his 'evidence'

Because somehow math shows that 980 is beating a 390X! It's flawless!

Allow me to give you some advice. I've dealt with @patrickjp93 plenty of times before. He is a sensitive man, you have to use an easy touch when dealing with him. You see, he never has proof (oddly enough, you are the first person i've ever seen him send a semi-relevant link to) and will often use the words "inductive reasoning" to prove himself right, even though it's not the best method for proving a point. He has a finite amount of weapons to use in an argument, and will often resort to calling his enemy names, instead of actually trying to prove them wrong.

 

So here's how you handle him.

 

Step 1. Use big words. Big words make you look the smarterest on the internet. It's a proven fact. Whoever uses the biggest words, wins. It's internet arguing 101.

 

Step 2. Always humor his claims. He will try to tell you he has already done something that you say he has not. Humor his claim. If he says he provided proof, use his posts to show he has not. Bonus points when you get biblical on him, and start questioning deities for the strength to see his views. This confuses him, as he is pseudo-agnostic, and you will make him question if you really are contacting a deity or not. I bet if you were to get in a street fight against a man charging up a Kamehameha wave, you would forfeit. The odds that he can actually do it are slim to none, but you don't want to take that chance.

 

Step 3. Context. Context wins all fights on the internet. It's the base of all arguments, and you can bend any word anyone says against them, as long as it falls within the context of the argument. You talking about benchmarks of a specific game or GPU? Then stick to that context. Any time he falls out of it, or uses "inductive reasoning" just ask for tangible evidence repeatedly. Those two words "tangible evidence" is his Kryptonite. 

 

There you have it. Follow these 3 steps, and you too can beat Patrick in an argument. Just don't say you've beaten him. He will mention how he has always beaten you, and how only 3 people have ever beaten him, and how you are not one of them. 

 

I'm off to teach children in Africa how to become lawyers. MAGETANK, AWAYYYYYY

[bogus]

Look at the fool source and read the ones from Anandtech. 980 wins.

Care to share the source of the source that proves that the source was wrong showing the source result of the 980 winning?

[Prysin]

Care to not be a twat and read the article all the way through? The anandtech benches are there.

I am sorry to inform you patrick that Anandtech never did a test of Ashes, they did the fable test.

 

Fable, for all it's worth, does not rely on compute, if at all. They use mostly shader and other effects, especially global illumination, which Nvidia is damn good at.

 

for Ashes you need to check out Ars Technica or PCperspective (for a more objective and "non biased" test anyway).

I remember PCper did a test after Nvidia released "game drivers" for the Ashes benchmark. In which case, yes, Nvidia performed better. But if this is due to them "fixing" compute, or that they simply improved all the other stuff so much that their poor compute performance didnt cripple them, that is left to be disclosed by any source at all.

 

incase you want to dispute anything.

ATs site, search queue "Ashes of the singularity" -> http://anandtech.com/SearchResults?q=Ashes+of+the+Singularity

ATs site, search queue "DX12" -> http://anandtech.com/SearchResults?q=DX12

 

Ashes are not featured by AT!!

Get your facts straight man. Also, do not argue with me here. i check AT for news every day, so if they had released a test using Ashes, i would have known by now.

 

PCpers test AFTER Nvidia released drivers made for the benchmark.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/DX12-GPU-and-CPU-Performance-Tested-Ashes-Singularity-Benchmark/Results-Heavy

 

yes the 980 is losing. marginally so. Nvidia has probably ironed out the last flaws by now. So i bet the 980, today, should be leading by a couple of %. But with the 390X being 100bucks cheaper. Unless you lead by an substantial amount performance wise, you are getting a severe punch below the belt, and that is exactly what we see here.

[TorqueS]

I did provide a source. Look at the anandtech benchmarks in the fool.com link, and then please go skulking back into obscurity where you belong.

Let's sum up and see what it is that it's not working.

 

You began with this...

 

Since Nvidia's latest driver the 390X isn't winning any battles, got news for you. AOTS and Fable now both show Nvidia in the lead pretty much across the board. =GTX 980 beats the R9 390X

 

People started asking you, "Ok, where is the proof? If what you say is true, then show me a graph with a 980 and a 390X  in which the former beats the latter."

 

 

You came with those two graphs, none of them having either a GTX980 or an R9 390X.

 

Those guys, came with graphs showing that the 390X edges out the 980, graphs in which those TWO cards are actually present.

 

You tell us to rely on whatever % difference that makes no sense, since GPU clocks may vary...and still call us twats and what not?

I'm sorry, but I don't get you on this one...