Valve: 'Vulkan is the Future, Not Much Reason to Create DX12 Backend'

[Guest Kloaked]

except they haven't promised anything unbelievable... It's just a modern graphics API and it's been done before.

 

It being cross platform and Valve being behind it they way that they are is why I'm skeptical.

[jaggysnake57]

Yeah, the game industry is so focussed on those brainless sheeps. AAA Publishers cater to them and put less effort to supporting the other platforms.

 

what? console gamers aint brainless sheeps at all. PC gamers rip console gamers apart but lets be honest they get a better ride than we do, most don care about 1080p 60fps and unless you have pc gamed then you cant tell there is an issue. they get better versions of games for the most part....batman do i need to say more. trade ins. general ease of open box plug in play. console gamers are not so demanding either, is it any wonder AAA game devs cater to them.

 

 

Android is Linux. It's not fundamentally different from "desktop Linux" as long as we are talking about the kernel. It's quite a bit different out of the box compared to how most distros are out of the box but that can be fixed if you want.

I disagree that Android is a mess compared to iOS.

What rock have you been living under if you don't know how successful Chromebooks are? They have been at the top of Amazon's best selling laptops list for years now. Only recently did some super cheap Windows laptops knock a few Chromebooks off the list.

Are you going to tell me laptop users aren't "PC consumers"? Considering how extremely popular they have been on Amazon I wouldn't be afraid to bet that like 20% of all laptops sold are chromebooks. Might even have been higher a year or two ago.

It's kind of cute how you are in such denial. First you say there will never be a gaming OS based on Linux and then when I point out that the most popular of the current gen consoles runs Linux, and how a huge amount of phones, tablets and Android consoles (including the ones from Nvidia and Razer) all run Linux you have to make shitty excludes as to why they don't count. That's what's called back pedaling. People do that when they have been proven wrong but don't want to lose face.

Just admit that you were wrong.

andriod is far removed from linux as a desktop os. and as for the chrome books thing, they are popular netbooks but they only represents ~6% of the market, hardly a resounding success. the fact is linux as a desktop OS is awful. its a nightmare to get setup, having to go through the command line to do basic things like download drivers or share a folder. then you have to piss around trying to get things that are not supported to work and then its not always sure fire......its a mess.

 

I want to switch to W10 because I want to switch to it, not because I have to in order to play a patricular game or so can get acceptable performance in a game. Any game that decides to be W10 only is going on my ignore list. I hope Vulcan turns out to be a win so I have less to worry about in the future.

 

Well, the day Windows 10 is required for new games is the day I'm out of gaming forever.

 

So Vulkan's success is the only way I will continue to buy games.

then bye. seriously this attitude is pathetic. windows 10 is fine and this whole MS is stealing our data bullshit is just that. do you really think that MS gives 2 shits i spent 3 hours yesterday looking at cat vids on you tube. no. what makes it worse is that you can block most of the privacy issues you hate so much.  like it or not windows 10 is going no where and if you want to cut your nose off to spite your face then so be it.

 

 

valkan stands a good chance if at least one of the consoles take it up, and it looks  like sony is going to support it.  personaly the idea of 1 api for all platforms makes the most sence and should make it easyer to create cross platform games that play brilliantly on all platforms, BUT will MS allow this?  or sony for that matter.  no they will still use money to keep console exclusives and ensure that console games are close to there pc counterparts.

[Ostwind]

 

 

then bye. seriously this attitude is pathetic. windows 10 is fine and this whole MS is stealing our data bullshit is just that. do you really think that MS gives 2 shits i spent 3 hours yesterday looking at cat vids on you tube. no. what makes it worse is that you can block most of the privacy issues you hate so much.  like it or not windows 10 is going no where and if you want to cut your nose off to spite your face then so be it.

 

Nice job there assuming everyone has the same reason for not wanting to upgrade to W10, also extra points for projecting your almost certainly douchey voice through the internet and into my head. I don't want to upgrade because I don't feel the need to. I like Windows 7, I'm used to it and I'm familiar with how it behaves with all of my hardware and games. W10, especially in it's current new release state, is still too much of an unknown quantity for me to consider using it on my main system.

[AlexGoesHigh]

snip

i'm sure your referring to the ps4 as the top console, but AFAIK isn't the ps4 firmware a fork of free bsd or something that uses unix, otherwise the firmware would be open source isn't it?

[LAwLz]

andriod is far removed from linux as a desktop os. and as for the chrome books thing, they are popular netbooks but they only represents ~6% of the market, hardly a resounding success. the fact is linux as a desktop OS is awful. its a nightmare to get setup, having to go through the command line to do basic things like download drivers or share a folder. then you have to piss around trying to get things that are not supported to work and then its not always sure fire......its a mess.

All I hear are poor excuses as to why X and Y should not count. Can you please explain to me how "android is far removed from linux as a desktop os"? Even if you think it is "far removed" (spoiler: It's not) it still is Linux (Note how I said Linux and not GNU/Linux).

 

Well everyone has their own definition of "resounding success" but I would say getting to 6% market share (don't have any numbers myself so going by your numbers) in just a few years, in a market that is declining and forcing competitors to do very aggressive moves such as price cuts and creating essentially a new category in order to stay competitive is a success.

 

No you don't need to use the command line to do basic things like downloading drivers or share a folder.

Here is how to update your drivers in Ubuntu:

System Settings- > Hardware -> Additional Drivers

That will automatically search for the latest drivers and install them if so needed. Can be done without touching your keyboard.

Here is how to share a folder:

Right click folder you want to share -> Click "Sharing Options" -> Fill in who should be allowed to access it -> Press "Create Share".

 

I am all for trashing on things, but if you are going to talk shit then at least make sure the shit you are saying is correct and not just assumptions grabbed from thin air.

Linux has a bunch of problems. There is no need to make up misinformation.

 

 

i'm sure your referring to the ps4 as the top console, but AFAIK isn't the ps4 firmware a fork of free bsd or something that uses unix, otherwise the firmware would be open source isn't it?

Crap you're right. Looked it up and it's FreeBSD.

Oh well, just goes to show that even BSD can become a good gaming OS.

Just goes to show how ignorant it is to claim that "X will never be useful consumer or gaming OS".

[suicidalfranco]

All I hear are poor excuses as to why X and Y should not count. Can you please explain to me how "android is far removed from linux as a desktop os"? Even if you think it is "far removed" (spoiler: It's not) it still is Linux (Note how I said Linux and not GNU/Linux).

 

Well everyone has their own definition of "resounding success" but I would say getting to 6% market share (don't have any numbers myself so going by your numbers) in just a few years, in a market that is declining and forcing competitors to do very aggressive moves such as price cuts and creating essentially a new category in order to stay competitive is a success.

 

No you don't need to use the command line to do basic things like downloading drivers or share a folder.

Here is how to update your drivers in Ubuntu:

System Settings- > Hardware -> Additional Drivers

That will automatically search for the latest drivers and install them if so needed. Can be done without touching your keyboard.

Here is how to share a folder:

Right click folder you want to share -> Click "Sharing Options" -> Fill in who should be allowed to access it -> Press "Create Share".

 

I am all for trashing on things, but if you are going to talk shit then at least make sure the shit you are saying is correct and not just assumptions grabbed from thin air.

Linux has a bunch of problems. There is no need to make up misinformation.

 

[jaggysnake57]

Nice job there assuming everyone has the same reason for not wanting to upgrade to W10, also extra points for projecting your almost certainly douchey voice through the internet and into my head. I don't want to upgrade because I don't feel the need to. I like Windows 7, I'm used to it and I'm familiar with how it behaves with all of my hardware and games. W10, especially in it's current new release state, is still too much of an unknown quantity for me to consider using it on my main system.

 

now is there any need to get personal?  your right not everyone is the same.....some people reasons are just down right stupid......its like my nan who still uses vhs because she is used to it, i mean you get that windows 7 has lost it support? its is going the way of the dodo you eventually need to upgrade so why wait?

 

All I hear are poor excuses as to why X and Y should not count. Can you please explain to me how "android is far removed from linux as a desktop os"? Even if you think it is "far removed" (spoiler: It's not) it still is Linux (Note how I said Linux and not GNU/Linux).

 

Well everyone has their own definition of "resounding success" but I would say getting to 6% market share (don't have any numbers myself so going by your numbers) in just a few years, in a market that is declining and forcing competitors to do very aggressive moves such as price cuts and creating essentially a new category in order to stay competitive is a success.

 

No you don't need to use the command line to do basic things like downloading drivers or share a folder.

Here is how to update your drivers in Ubuntu:

System Settings- > Hardware -> Additional Drivers

That will automatically search for the latest drivers and install them if so needed. Can be done without touching your keyboard.

Here is how to share a folder:

Right click folder you want to share -> Click "Sharing Options" -> Fill in who should be allowed to access it -> Press "Create Share".

 

I am all for trashing on things, but if you are going to talk shit then at least make sure the shit you are saying is correct and not just assumptions grabbed from thin air.

Linux has a bunch of problems. There is no need to make up misinformation.

 

 

Crap you're right. Looked it up and it's FreeBSD.

Oh well, just goes to show that even BSD can become a good gaming OS.

Just goes to show how ignorant it is to claim that "X will never be useful consumer or gaming OS".

 

if you cant see how a mobile os is far removed form a desktop os......

 

i have 2 systems running linux , have installed it several times on several laptops computers etc and i have always eneded up going to the terminal to get things done that should have been much simpler including installing optimus drivers for nvidiea laptop GFX cards its not misinformation its personal experience

 

if linux is so great why does a free desktop os have such a small user base?

[LAwLz]

if you cant see how a mobile os is far removed form a desktop os......

I know what the differences are (there are some non-subtle hints in my post), but I don't think they are relevant for this conversation and it seems to me like you might not know the differences.

 

 

i have 2 systems running linux , have installed it several times on several laptops computers etc and i have always eneded up going to the terminal to get things done that should have been much simpler including installing optimus drivers for nvidiea laptop GFX cards its not misinformation its personal experience

Well it depends on which distro you use but in Ubuntu it's not needed. If you have used Ubuntu and still ended up going on the terminal then you just didn't know where to find it in the GUI, which is hardly Ubuntu's fault.

 

 

if linux is so great why does a free desktop os have such a small user base?

Nice strawman.

[Ostwind]

now is there any need to get personal?  your right not everyone is the same.....some people reasons are just down right stupid......its like my nan who still uses vhs because she is used to it, i mean you get that windows 7 has lost it support? its is going the way of the dodo you eventually need to upgrade so why wait?

 

 

I'm waiting because the longer I wait the better Windows 10 will be, I want all or most of the hiccups and bugs and weirdness will be worked out and my upgrade will be smooth. My plan is to take the free upgrade about a month before the free upgrade period ends. Though if I hear about something that I don't particularly like that hasn't been fixed then I'm not opposed to waiting longer even if it means I have to pay up for the upgrade. I want an experience that is as trouble free as possible for my main system and right now I get that from Windows 7.

[patrickjp93]

All I hear are poor excuses as to why X and Y should not count. Can you please explain to me how "android is far removed from linux as a desktop os"? Even if you think it is "far removed" (spoiler: It's not) it still is Linux (Note how I said Linux and not GNU/Linux).

Android wasn't designed with a mouse and keyboard in mind. It wasn't designed to be a workstation OS. It's not meant for desktop.

 

God Richard Stalman's Ego...

[LAwLz]

Android wasn't designed with a mouse and keyboard in mind. It wasn't designed to be a workstation OS. It's not meant for desktop.

 

God Richard Stalman's Ego...

Who said anything about a desktop OS?

 

Here is how the conversation went:

Notional: "Linux will never be a useful consumer or gaming OS."

Me: "Android, ChromeOS and the PS4's OS disagrees."

Notional: "bla bla bla Android shouldn't count."

 

The conversation wasn't whether or not Android is a desktop OS. The conversation was "is Android Linux and if so, can it be useful for gaming?".

I say yes to both, and Notional says no to at least 1 of them.

The whole thing about desktop Linux is just backpedaling. Something he added when he realized he made a blanket statement which was incorrect.

 

This was the post I originally responded to:

That 3% was after 1 week on the market. After 5 weeks it's now just over 16%. Think we will hit 25-30% on less than 2 weeks? The remaining 97% does not all support DX12 on the hardware level. You think they will on Vulkan? My argument has always been that a single homogenous OS for PC gaming is an advantage for pc gaming. Linux will never be a useful consumer or gaming OS. At least not until they get their own "XP revolution" like Windows got.

 

Specifically said over the next 6 months. I could mention about 10 off the top of my head, which is quite a lot for AAA titles. I can mention 0 for Vulkan right now.

[Kamina]

Down with MS's crappy monopoly. 

[Mattyd7829]

I am sorry but the fact that Valve are pushing Vulkan is no big surprise seeing as they are owned by Nvidia. Underhand tactics again Nvidia? Way to go!

 

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/44358/nvidia-acquires-valve-announces-half-life-3-release-2016/index.html

 

I am sure that the Nvidia massive will dismiss this but what a sneaky bunch of asshats!

[HKZeroFive]

I am sorry but the fact that Valve are pushing Vulkan is no big surprise seeing as they are owned by Nvidia. Underhand tactics again Nvidia? Way to go!

 

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/44358/nvidia-acquires-valve-announces-half-life-3-release-2016/index.html

 

I am sure that the Nvidia massive will dismiss this but what a sneaky bunch of asshats!

I really can't tell if you're joking or not

[Mattyd7829]

I really can't tell if you're joking or not

Joking about what? Nvida once again using their influence to stop people using DX12 because their equipment is not running it as well as AMDs?

[HKZeroFive]

Joking about what? Nvida once again using their influence to stop people using DX12 because their equipment is not running it as well as AMDs?

Alright, you got me. Thanks for the trolling.

[Mattyd7829]

Alright, you got me. Thanks for the trolling.

Please explain to me why I am trolling?

[HKZeroFive]

Please explain to me why I am trolling?

I can't believe I'm actually doing this...

1. The TweakTown article you've quoted is an April's Fools joke, that should have been immediately obvious in its title 'HL3 is releasing in 2016'. Why the hell would NVIDIA buy Valve, considering that Valve is arguably the bigger company?

2. There is no vendor bias here, and considering that Vulkan is basically being built off AMD's Mantle, you could argue that Vulkan would be more biased towards AMD. But that's stupid, because there's absolutely no vendor bias with Vulkan.

3. You've got a Radeon avatar. That somehow makes your argument even more ridiculous and hard to take seriously. For all I know, you could be an AMD fanboy, pulling out random (and also inaccurate) facts out of your ass.

[Humbug]

Joking about what? Nvida once again using their influence to stop people using DX12 because their equipment is not running it as well as AMDs?

Vulkan is very similar ro DX12 in goals and design principle. It should see similar performance characteristics.

[Mattyd7829]

lol fair enough, I heard about valve pushing Vulkan and jumped to a conclusion that was borne out by the article that I saw.

 

I have never played Half life so I have no idea about what their games are doing so didn't realise it was an April fools joke. 

 

I really wasn't trolling, just a fool lol

 

Thanks for putting me straight, (I still don't like Nvidia)

[Nineshadow]

 Why the hell would NVIDIA buy Valve, considering that Valve is arguably the bigger company?

Valve, the bigger company?

???

Did I get it wrong or something?

[Humbug]

Snip

An interesting thing to note is that once the Khronos group decided to make Vulkan and set their objectives AMD quickly contributed Mantle (with no strings attached and no charge) which was used as a starting point. This has sped up the development of Vulkan and is the reason it's being completed this year. The reason AMD wanted to speed it up is because they know that they have everything to gain from the industry as a whole adopting new-Gen APIs such as Mantle, DX12,Vulkan.

[Mattyd7829]

Valve, the bigger company?

???

Did I get it wrong or something?

No I did, and now I look more stupid than I normally do.

[Humbug]

Valve, the bigger company?

???

Did I get it wrong or something?

NVIDIA is many times bigger.

Still don't think Gabe would sell.

[Nineshadow]

NVIDIA is many times bigger.

Still don't think Gabe would sell.

Yeah, Valve is a private company anyway.