AMD: No Such Thing As 'Full Support' For DX12 Today

[Prysin]

who said it's for gaming? Async Compute isn't for gaming, Async Shader is

you need a outboard engine if you want to get anywere. You're paddling aint fast enough.

[Master Disaster]

who said it's for gaming? Async Compute isn't for gaming, Async Shader is

 

Sure, like Windows doesn't drive your GPU, thats what a driver is for.

 

Remove one and the other is pretty worthless.

[DEDRICK]

who said it's for gaming? Async Compute isn't for gaming, Async Shader is

 

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn899217(v=vs.85).aspx#asynchronous_compute_and_graphics_example

 

[Doobeedoo]

Because standards take years to create and years longer to implement. HDMI1.4 barely came out before we started hearing about HDMI2.0 features and release dates. Thunderbolt2 has been out for how long and now we are expecting Thunderbolt3?

 

Not to mention most of the graphics companies never (EDIT: fully) implement the _X versions of the spec, it was the same for DX10 and DX11. They will just support them in the next major revision (assuming the cards can).

Yeah but, monitor interface is kind of different than software like DX and GPUs so why not try to do a better implementation. How would 2016 GPUs be supported?

[patrickjp93]

AMD buying ATI was deemed a good thing when it happened but IMO it added to much stock to the pot. When they lost their focus and diversified they also lost their edge.

Who on Earth thought it was a good idea? Financial analysts certainly didn't. Hedge funds didn't. Everyone with a brain saw AMD was getting duped into buying a valueless company where debt to revenues ratios were stupid high. AMD should have merged with Nvidia, and Ruiz should have taken the position as Huang's #2. Intel and IBM were the only tech companies in the U.S. who should have bought ATI. Both could have thrown money at the debts and restructured ATI in a single year.

[patrickjp93]

who said it's for gaming? Async Compute isn't for gaming, Async Shader is

Both are for gaming when you do GPU-based physics calculations. That said, AMD converts the DX kernels to compute kernels anyway and just massages the end data for final processing by the ROPs.

[HKZeroFive]

Who on Earth thought it was a good idea? Financial analysts certainly didn't. Hedge funds didn't. Everyone with a brain saw AMD was getting duped into buying a valueless company where debt to revenues ratios were stupid high. AMD should have merged with Nvidia, and Ruiz should have taken the position as Huang's #2. Intel and IBM were the only tech companies in the U.S. who should have bought ATI. Both could have thrown money at the debts and restructured ATI in a single year.

While I agree about your statement that it was a poor decision, AMD merging with NVIDIA would mean no competition, and therefore higher prices. I much rather keep them as two separate companies, even though the financial situations of AMD compared to NVIDIA is widely different at the moment.

[patrickjp93]

While I agree about your statement that it was a poor decision, AMD merging with NVIDIA would mean no competition, and therefore higher prices. I much rather keep them as two separate companies, even though the financial situations of AMD compared to NVIDIA is widely different at the moment.

I mean, before the ATI buyout, Ruiz's original plan was to merge with Nvidia instead of buying ATI. He just couldn't stomach letting Huang's be the CEO of the merged entity. In that event, AMD would have had a huge cash injection and the stronger GPU market share to jumpstart its APU designs. ATI would have likely ended up in Intel's hands shortly thereafter, and we'd have strong competition on both fronts.

[HKZeroFive]

I mean, before the ATI buyout, Ruiz's original plan was to merge with Nvidia instead of buying ATI. He just couldn't stomach letting Huang's be the CEO of the merged entity. In that event, AMD would have had a huge cash injection and the stronger GPU market share to jumpstart its APU designs. ATI would have likely ended up in Intel's hands shortly thereafter, and we'd have strong competition on both fronts.

Yep, that I can agree with.

Although I cannot envisage the notion of Intel making formidable GPUs at all

[Albatross]

I just really hope Vulkan succeeds.  :*(

[kacper]

Ruiz's original plan was to merge with Nvidia instead of buying ATI. He just couldn't stomach letting Huang's be the CEO of the merged entity.

Seriously ? It was ego of one CEO that started AMD demise? Or were there concerns that Huang won't be up to task?

[Briggsy]

Yep, that I can agree with.

Although I cannot envisage the notion of Intel making formidable GPUs at all

 

Give it another 5-10 years and discrete GPU's will probably be for professional work only, and far too inefficient for gaming (especially latency). Even then I wonder, because unified architecture is often superior - once every other limit is reached.

[HKZeroFive]

Give it another 5-10 years and discrete GPU's will probably be for professional work only, and far too inefficient for gaming (especially latency). Even then I wonder, because unified architecture is often superior - once every other limit is reached.

Only time will tell...

[Prysin]

I mean, before the ATI buyout, Ruiz's original plan was to merge with Nvidia instead of buying ATI. He just couldn't stomach letting Huang's be the CEO of the merged entity. In that event, AMD would have had a huge cash injection and the stronger GPU market share to jumpstart its APU designs. ATI would have likely ended up in Intel's hands shortly thereafter, and we'd have strong competition on both fronts.

speculations though...

 

things could just as easily gone south with Nvidia too... I mean, history shows us AMD hasnt been THE best at managing their money or expenses.... and their marketing (thus ability to make money at all) has been abyssmal since way before ATI were acquired

[BroliviaWilde]

No. They have lower level APIs, yes. They can afford this because they know that the hardware doesn't change (beside drive space).

WiiU and PS4 uses OpenGL. Usually a modified version of OpenGL with these lower level APIs, so you can't just easily port a game from Console to PC by just recompiling it for Windows.

The XBox One supports DirectX. We don't know if it has special lower level APIs inside (probably it does). DirectX12 might benefit a bit the XBox One, able to achieve a bit better graphics, bringing it closer to the PS4, is a possibility on well coded games.

 

Xbone uses a heavily customized version of DX11, dubbed DX11.x which includes features from DX12 including asynchronous compute.  Phil Spencer made it pretty clear that dx12 won't benefit the xbone, and my understanding is that the reasons why it wouldn't benefit from dx12 is because dx11.x already includes the features that are needed(AC).   Good article about the history and explaining AMD's long game is here.

[Notional]

Seriously ? It was ego of one CEO that started AMD demise? Or were there concerns that Huang won't be up to task?

CEO's usually don't have that kind of power. The board of directors have to agree to this kind of thing.

It's probably more huang being the wannabe mob boss he is, that was the problem.

[Sammael]

Alright guys, I stumbled upon this expert analysis of the state of nvidias and amds dx12 support.  Never in all my life have I come across a speaker so measured and even handed in this discussion.  Never once veering into bouts of hyperbole and expletives to get his point across.  This is my favorite analysis all year.

 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0moE1u9QsCA

[Briggsy]

Alright guys, I stumbled upon this expert analysis of the state of nvidias and amds dx12 support.  Never in all my life have I come across a speaker so measured and even handed in this discussion.  Never once veering into bouts of hyperbole and expletives to get his point across.  This is my favorite analysis all year.

 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0moE1u9QsCA

 

He is nothing but a gentleman. I laughed out loud at his comment about AMD spending 6 years preparing a suckerpunch for Nvidia's junk.

[ivan134]

Alright guys, I stumbled upon this expert analysis of the state of nvidias and amds dx12 support.  Never in all my life have I come across a speaker so measured and even handed in this discussion.  Never once veering into bouts of hyperbole and expletives to get his point across.  This is my favorite analysis all year.

 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0moE1u9QsCA

Lot's of heresay but still pretty funny.

[MageTank]

Alright guys, I stumbled upon this expert analysis of the state of nvidias and amds dx12 support.  Never in all my life have I come across a speaker so measured and even handed in this discussion.  Never once veering into bouts of hyperbole and expletives to get his point across.  This is my favorite analysis all year.

 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0moE1u9QsCA

Every single time he said "ne-vidia" i died a little inside. 

[bogus]

It's seems like someone, is on a fulltime job trying desperatly to change the information in the NVIDIA 900 articles on WIKIPEDIA, in a atempt to completly remove this latest developments about DirectX12 support on the 900 series:

 

IP's talkpage
IP's article edits
Geforce 900 Series
Geforce 900 Series' history

[ItsGinger35]

People should know this haha

[Icecube26]

It's seems like someone, is on a fulltime job trying desperatly to change the information in the NVIDIA 900 articles on WIKIPEDIA, in a atempt to completly remove this latest developments about DirectX12 support on the 900 series:

 

IP's talkpage

IP's article edits

Geforce 900 Series

Geforce 900 Series' history

NV PR team too stronk... check this out ..... http://www.legitreviews.com/geforce-gtx-980-ti-dx12-feature-level-and-tier-details_164782... the first pic... DX12 API consists of - Low Overhead, More Control, Async Compute... straight from the horses mouth....

[patrickjp93]

Yep, that I can agree with.

Although I cannot envisage the notion of Intel making formidable GPUs at all

Intel's problem is its lack of IP while AMD and Nvidia hold the lion's share and are both vicious patent trolls.

[patrickjp93]

speculations though...

things could just as easily gone south with Nvidia too... I mean, history shows us AMD hasnt been THE best at managing their money or expenses.... and their marketing (thus ability to make money at all) has been abyssmal since way before ATI were acquired

It's not speculation. That was Ruiz's plan. And Nvidia had the monetary position to draw more investors to AMD. And Nvidia would have managed the finances. AMD's IP and talent would have been kept. The management would have been stripped out.