Do you agree or disagree with digital piracy

[MariusJS]

95% of the things I pirate, I have either no way to watch it on TV/On demand/ Netflix, or it costs entirely way to much.  

 

Majority of those can be fixed too lol

Agreed, If I have no acess to it, how could i steal it  :wacko:

[Toby]

Yes, you said those words.

 

Then please, go and find them and quote what I said them in context to, because the closest thing I can find in the post you replied to was "no reason for anyone to be paying any less", which communicates something very different.

 

In terms of digital software, each copy has a price (unless it's marketed as free). Downloading the data that has a price on it, is essentially stealing a copy. And just because something is inevitable doesn't mean you have to agree with it. For example, drug abuse. How do you know pirating benefits all content creators? There are a lot of anti piracy steps taken, so it must have a negative impact. (If piracy was actually brining in some sort of money, companies would protest against it).

 

Oh come on now, it's nothing like stealing. Downloading digital software doesn't deprive the person you're downloading it from of having it, nor is it likely to be depriving them of the money they decided it was worth (and I'm telling you now, I'm not going to entertain the argument that every pirated copy equates to a lost sale. It's too foolish). Now, that's not to say there isn't a number of pirates that pirate things they agree with the value of and can afford, but as long as our system remains fundamentally broken, there's very little foundation for telling them they're wrong. If we fix the system, we can take the moral high-ground much more easily.

 

There are many reasons people fight for and advocate for things and they don't always correlate with what's right and wrong (there are lots of anti marijuana steps taken and yet cigarettes are legal). Piracy does bring in money, but companies can't measure that. If I pirate something and buy the sequel as a result, or recommend it to my friend and they buy it as a result, my piracy would have led to a sale, but how do the creators know that those purchases were due to piracy? They don't.

 

As far as inevitability, I stated that in context to a very specific situation. The inevitability of piracy due to the inherent flaws of trying to force two particular systems to work together that don't belong together is very different to the inevitability of drug abuse.

[TheBLOODYTOXIC]

I think is a problem of distribution

59.99 for a game on demand? that BS, there is no retailer... there is no plastic, i pay for the service (Xbox Live),,, where is the lost?

[mr moose]

 

 

 

Oh come on now, it's nothing like stealing. Downloading digital software doesn't deprive the person you're downloading it from of having it,

It is stealing, doesn't have to deprive the owner of a copy, it only has to deprive the owner of property:

 

^{In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.[1][2] The word is also used as an informal shorthand term for some crimes against property, such as burglary, embezzlement, larceny, looting, robbery, shoplifting, library theft and fraud.[1][2] In some jurisdictions, theft is considered to be synonymous with larceny;[2] in others, theft has replaced larceny. Someone who carries out an act of or makes a career of theft is known as a thief. The act of theft is known by terms such as stealing, thieving, wicksing, and filching.[2]}

 

 

When you pirate software or a movie you deprive the author of royalties pertaining to the use of said software/media. These royalties are usually real world currency and that is legitimate property therefore considered "theft" or "stealing" .

[Night]

The answer to your question is usually a long explanation dependant on the indiviual user. 

Depends entirely on the situation, and the content in question.

[mr moose]

The answer to your question is usually a long explanation dependant on the indiviual user. 

Depends entirely on the situation, and the content in question.

Spot on, for each user it could be a way to protest, a moral dilemma or it could be the only option in their eyes.  

 

The only thing concrete about piracy is that it is (by its legal definition) theft.

[Night]

Spot on, for each user it could be a way to protest, a moral dilemma or it could be the only option in their eyes.  

 

The only thing concrete about piracy is that it is (by its legal definition) theft.

Legaly its theft, technically its copying, Morally its wrong. ¯\(°_o)/¯ 

Thats where the lines overlap... And theres really nothing you can do about this.

[mr moose]

Legaly its theft, technically its copying, Morally its wrong. ¯\(°_o)/¯ 

Thats where the lines overlap... And theres really nothing you can do about this.

yes there is, I can whinge, moan and I can carry on like its a grave personal insult :P

 

I'm just calling out the people who are saying it is not stealing or theft because I am a black and white person and the law says its illegal. So if I was to pirate and get caught, I would be punished accordingly. Moral emotional justification for piracy does not stop it from being illegal.

[Night]

yes there is, I can whinge, moan and I can carry on like its a grave personal insult :P

 

I'm just calling out the people who are saying it is not stealing or theft because I am a black and white person and the law says its illegal. So if I was to pirate and get caught, I would be punished accordingly. Moral emotional justification for piracy does not stop it from being illegal.

I 100% agree with you. If you break the law, you broke the law and should be prepared for the repercussions. 

Those people who want to try justify breaking the law are actually just idiots. If you (Not you personally, Mr Moose) expect a law to be based on morals then its up to the individual to vote someone who can make that change into power. 

[Toby]

When you pirate software or a movie you deprive the author of royalties pertaining to the use of said software/media. These royalties are usually real world currency and that is legitimate property therefore considered "theft" or "stealing" .

 

Oh come on now, it's nothing like stealing. Downloading digital software doesn't deprive the person you're downloading it from of having it, nor is it likely to be depriving them of the money they decided it was worth (and I'm telling you now, I'm not going to entertain the argument that every pirated copy equates to a lost sale. It's too foolish).

 

Sorry moose. Not doing it.

 

 

Legaly its theft, technically its copying, Morally its wrong. ¯\(°_o)/¯

 

Legally it's copyright infringement. If you look back at the definition of theft that moose posted, you'll see that "the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it" is included in the definition. Piracy doesn't do that and that's why those who have been prosecuted for piracy for whatever reason have never been successfully charged with theft.

 

Now, you say morally it's wrong and so I ask you...If I'm not going to buy a product, because either its price is too high or I can't afford it, then I have two options. I can either pirate it, or I can go without. Why is the latter preferable to the former for the content creator? In other words, what does the content creator gain by me going without compared to what they gain by me pirating it?

[mr moose]

Sorry moose. Not doing it.

 

 

So your willing to make a blanket statement that it's foolish but you won't support it with debate? 

 

They worked to produce the content, they have a right to charge for its use, you do not have the right to use it with paying that charge. I guess your right there is no debate. 

[Night]

Sorry moose. Not doing it.

 

 

 

Legally it's copyright infringement. If you look back at the definition of theft that moose posted, you'll see that "the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it" is included in the definition. Piracy doesn't do that and that's why those who have been prosecuted for piracy for whatever reason have never been successfully charged with theft.

 

Now, you say morally it's wrong and so I ask you...If I'm not going to buy a product, because either its price is too high or I can't afford it, then I have two options. I can either pirate it, or I can go without. Why is the latter preferable to the former for the content creator? In other words, what does the content creator gain by me going without compared to what they gain by me pirating it?

That, is a stupid justification. It just is. How can you take so much from the world and give nothing in return.

Piracy is REFUSING to pay for a product. Doesnt matter if you can afford it or not. I personally dont care what sort of excuse anyone wants to come up with regarding piracy. Being a pirate is giving the biggest middle finger to an individual, group or company you can ever give. You have to live with that, and its sad that so many people can go on, not caring about how these people feel when those people know a whole bunch of other people are doing this to them. And they have worked so hard to achieve sucess, and arnt getting any reward for their effort.

Feels are hurt. No one likes having hurt feels. T_____T

[Toby]

So your willing to make a blanket statement that it's foolish but you won't support it with debate?

 

Because it's evidently foolish. There's nothing to be debated about the fact that every pirated copy is not a lost sale. If I tried to tell you that if only Photoshop wasn't piratable, then everyone who's ever pirated it would definitely have bought it, you'd think my head was hollow and deservedly so.

 

 

That, is a stupid justification. It just is. How can you take so much from the world and give nothing in return.

Piracy is REFUSING to pay for a product. Doesnt matter if you can afford it or not. I personally dont care what sort of excuse anyone wants to come up with regarding piracy. Being a pirate is giving the biggest middle finger to an individual, group or company you can ever give. You have to live with that, and its sad that so many people can go on, not caring about how these people feel when those people know a whole bunch of other people are doing this to them. And they have worked so hard to achieve sucess, and arnt getting any reward for their effort.

Feels are hurt. No one likes having hurt feels. T_____T

 

Who says I'd give nothing in return? If I take a song, I might give that song's value in return, I might give it's album's value in return or I might recommend that song to others, which can equate to giving a hell of a lot in return.

 

If piracy is refusing to pay for a product, then how come I'd buy things I pirated and how come I'd pirate things I'd bought? (I'm putting this hypothetically to comply with forum rules. Translate accordingly.)

 

Buying something is more beneficial than pirating something, but pirating something is more beneficial than not buying and not pirating something. You just can't get around that fact (or if you can, explain why).

 

Edit: Oh and please, don't take this personally. There's no need for hurt feelings.

[LAwLz]

Piracy is REFUSING to pay for a product. Doesnt matter if you can afford it or not. I personally dont care what sort of excuse anyone wants to come up with regarding piracy. Being a pirate is giving the biggest middle finger to an individual, group or company you can ever give.

Haven't followed the discussion but I just wanted to butt in. Piracy is not "refusing to pay for a product". Piracy is:

the unauthorized reproduction or use of a copyrighted book, recording, television program, patentedinvention, trademarked product, etc.: The record industry is beset with piracy.

 

Pirating isn't "giving the middle finger" to someone either. I highly recommend you read my post I made on page 3 if you really think piracy is bad.

[mr moose]

Because it's evidently foolish. There's nothing to be debated about the fact that every pirated copy is not a lost sale. If I tried to tell you that if only Photoshop wasn't piratable, then everyone who's ever pirated it would definitely have bought it, you'd think my head was hollow and deservedly so.

 

 

 

 

For the record I have not actually said it was a lost sale, I said if you pirate you are not paying the legal charge to use copyrighted material.  Which is theft under most legal systems.  To argue that is not this the case is class stupidity.  

 

As far as your lost sale argument goes, that is a straw man argument.  The only facts in that scenario are that the creator has not been payed for the rights to use his work, and the pirate is using the works without buying the rights.  Call it what you will it is still illegal, it is still someone not being payed for their work.  You don't know how many sales there would or would not have been if the content was not pirated at all.

 

 

Haven't followed the discussion but I just wanted to butt in. Piracy is not "refusing to pay for a product". Piracy is:

 

Pirating isn't "giving the middle finger" to someone either. I highly recommend you read my post I made on page 3 if you really think piracy is bad.

 

I read that post, but the problem is that if a specific content creator give you permission to copy their work, then it is not piracy. If the bloke who created minecraft says you can copy his work, that does not give anyone the right to copy other peoples work especially when they make public announcements specifically asking people not to. 

[Guest]

I have this:

 

I download movies

 

But never games, I always always buy games.

 

Actually I think I bought  a movie now and then.

[MzCatieB]

i personly feel that some1 should create a free system online that allows people to (For example) watch movies for free "Once on the account" and then not allow them to watch it again for a "X" amount of times... if they wish to watch it again they have to pay for it. and when you watch the movie it gives you a link to a retailer that will sell the DVD/Blu ray.

 

with computer games i feel that paying stupid amounts is not needed, as lower cost will generate more interest and yield better popularity making them the same as what they would at the prices they are now.

 

with music more and more people use youtube for there music needs... meaning musical artists shouldnt complain when they themselves are uploading there musical video's / vocal covers online. its like me drawing a picture then uploading it online and saying.... no you need to pay me money to see this picture

[Toby]

For the record I have not actually said it was a lost sale, I said if you pirate you are not paying the legal charge to use copyrighted material.  Which is theft under most legal systems.  To argue that is not this the case is class stupidity. 

 

You said that every pirated copy is depriving the author of royalties. It's the same argument. I said before I was paying legalities no mind and I should have continued to do so. Legality is all too often a poor indicator of right and wrong.

 

 

As far as your lost sale argument goes, that is a straw man argument.  The only facts in that scenario are that the creator has not been payed for the rights to use his work, and the pirate is using the works without buying the rights.  Call it what you will it is still illegal, it is still someone not being payed for their work.  You don't know how many sales there would or would not have been if the content was not pirated at all.

 

I'm assuming you're referring to the Photoshop comment, in which case I don't need to know how many sales there would or would not have been, I only need to know it wouldn't have equaled the amount of pirated copies, which is the point I was making.

[LAwLz]

I read that post, but the problem is that if a specific content creator give you permission to copy their work, then it is not piracy. If the bloke who created minecraft says you can copy his work, that does not give anyone the right to copy other peoples work especially when they make public announcements specifically asking people not to. 

But they do not give you permission, at least not the people I am quoting. What they are not against piracy, and explains why. For example Matt and Tray don't say "go pirate our stuff", but they explain that piracy helped them. The people who downloaded Neil Gaiman's book while it was available for free did obviously not pirate it, but people who download Michael Moore's movies are still pirating them.

[bluepoodleguy]

What is meant by digital piracy? My copy of Win 7 is legit-I paid real Canadian money for it. However it is the OEM version which is supposed to mean it can be installed on one computer-I can't transfer it to a new computer(after deleting the OS on the previous computer). Wotinhell does that mean? To me my rights as a consumer are equal to MIcrosoft's rights as a seller. As long as Microsoft is protected by copyright I am protected by consumer protection laws. I have no ethical qualms about using a crack to install a legitimately obtained copy of software if Microsoft possibly gave me some trouble. Also I have no reservations about circumventing region protection schemes. If a content provider is protected by multilateral agreements then dammit I should be protected by those same agreements.

My rights are equal to your rights. I paid for it I demand some respect. Edit-Edit-Edit. Also I will happily use no CD cracks for my games that came on disc.

[Dudenstein]

Depends on war youre pirating. I am against pirating of media whether it be tv or movies or music. I use Netflix and Hulu+ and spotify for music. When it comes to games I'm against it if you have means to attain it. Let's say for example the game has been discontinued due to contractual reasons and you have no way in attaining the game then I can understand the reason to find an alternate means to getting it. Now if it's a modern game that's readily available, then just pay for it.

[sabot]

I just do not want to pirate anything. I feel bad for stealing from developers because I would like to be one.

[DLM_012]

The results are interesting....

 

I voted for somewhat. If I can try a game before buying, why not? If a game is pirated and you like it, find some money to support the developers to make a sequel or to at least further their vision for another project That's my feelings on the matter. But when Steam's around, there's really no reason to pirate imo. Consoles... Different story imo. Piracy on gaming platforms would be far smaller of an issue if Microsoft and Sony learned a lesson or two from Steam about digital goods. Sony kinda has the idea with PS+ but Microsoft still has no idea wtf they're doing.

[Jeffee]

I put somewhat. 

I pirate things to try them out. If I like it then i'll support and buy it.

I pirate movies because they aren't on my Netflix and Hulu + those other video sites aren't available here.

For music I listen to grooveshark instead of pirating it.

[Lil Chillbil]

Pirating destroyed me, I quit torrenting when I was 14 I torrented modern warfare and fell into a bon fire

 

 

That was a one step program.