Steam gamers already use Windows 10 more then any Linux distribution users combined.

[handymanshandle]

On topic: When do you guys think 10 will be the most used OS in the steam survey?

 

When DX12 is fully supported and has shown its value. 

[SubTract]

@Notional You have a very interesting perspective. I feel like you should go and use ubuntu for a week. Then come back to us. I'm not sticking up for ubuntu, But it is everything you say windows is and linux isn't.

 

As for your android arguments. You're saying that android isn't streamlined or updated.....

You realise android is updated frequently, It is also very streamlined. You're blaming the wrong people.

for example Google release a patch, Handset makers make it so users can't update until they approve it.

You can buy a nexus device and stay up to date. People who want one of these other flavours of android buy the device because it isn't stock android. Because they can get a feature that isn't part of stock android. 

 

You saying that Microsoft wouldn't be given a free pass if a certain computer running windows didn't work...

They already do, A driver comes out that causes problems. People don't blame Microsoft because the driver is broken.

 

Back to Linux though, Linux has a small market share in the desktop market. Not because of bad support or lack of updates. It's because of people like you making people scared to try something that is no harder then what they use every day. Before you start knocking on that .9% (yes I'm rounding) market share, Realise that is still .9% of steam users. There are a lot of steam users. There are also a damn sight more PC's running linux without steam. So that small percentage is still a hell of a lot of people.

[Nineshadow]

Back to Linux though, Linux has a small market share in the desktop market. Not because of bad support or lack of updates. It's because of people like you making people scared to try something that is no harder then what they use every day. Before you start knocking on that .9% (yes I'm rounding) market share, Realise that is still .9% of steam users. There are a lot of steam users. There are also a damn sight more PC's running linux without steam. So that small percentage is still a hell of a lot of people.

Also because they don't have any real reason to switch to Linux (which is a process that could scare the average consumer), since they can already do anything they want on Windows. This is, of course, talking about the average consumer.

 

And yeah, a lot of linux computers don't have Steam installed. I don't.

 

But Linux isn't just about the average consumer. It's a lot more than that. It's great for developers, cybersecurity (server penetration testing,etc.), servers (ah, Linux is the big guy as far as servers go), embedded systems and others. Not to mention Android, which has the largest install base of any OS.

 

Linux is also the best example of open-source software.

[deviant88]

Linux sucks for home desktop users/gamers why would that be such news?

[martlart]

Linux sucks for home desktop users/gamers why would that be such news?

It's been way better than windows for me if we ignore the low amount of games (gaming isn't that important to me), so I guess what you're saying doesn't apply to everyone.

[Misanthrope]

Valve only has themselves to blame for this: They completely fucking botched the steam box releases with the ridiculous fucking delays that basically squandered away all the momentum they managed to create, all because they just had to get their stupid controller right. A year later nobody gives a shit about Steam OS or Steam boxes anymore because why should we? Valve failed to utilize the hype they've got, they failed to build their distro in a timely matter (It's fucking Debian with the Steam client running on top: not that fucking hard it would have taken only 2 or 3 months to just fucking mod Ubuntu, the thing that literally everybody does already) and this is the big one: they have some dev support but utterly fucking failed at putting any kind of pressure on Nvidia and specially AMD to get proper driver support. Seriously it's still a pitiful fucking experience that basically makes all the points @Notional made true: there is no excuse for having 20 to 30% slower performance and basically the official drivers break the fucking OS entirely if you own an older card.

 

That was always the main issue and that hasn't been addressed: driver support. There's no fucking hope of better adoption numbers without driver supports and if Valve and their unprecedented success at getting devs on board for Linux couldn't get motherfuckers off their asses coding proper drivers, nobody ever will.

[Nineshadow]

People don't want a concept, they want an easy to use, intuitive and self maintained OS, that works with what they use.

Actually, they do. People aren't only machines with reason. They are more than that. We care about our concepts.

Look at the fight over privacy for example. What did the NSA think when they started collecting personal information? Well, from a logical point of view, the average guy wouldn't be in any way affected by it directly, but they could catch bad guys and thus protect the citizens. It makes sense. But we all know what happened : people value their concepts, people valued their privacy. Even though some people know that NSA collecting their data couldn't hurt their person, they care that it endangers their privacy, their concept of their privacy.

[Sauron]

As a Fedora user, I will never understand you Archers.

 

I suppose we just have a lot of time on our hands ^^ but in exchange we get a rolling release, the newest software, more flexibility, no unnecessary bloat of any sort and get to learn more doesn't mean I don't like other distros though, I just choose arch on systems that only I use.

[Sauron]

Like I said, it's useful for workstations (which an Office computer is at work), so nothing you wrote goes against my initial post. Linux is very much useful for companies, in workstations, thin clients and especially servers (all of which I mentioned in the original post).

 

 

The average consumer will never need anything other than the settings part. They certainly will never use command prompt (or even know what it is or how it works), exactly the same with device manager (hint you can right click on the windows symbol and be one click away from control panel, device manager, command prompt, etc, so it's not that "hidden"). No average consumer will ever need a partition editor as they have no clue what a partition is or how it works. It's actually a really good thing that it's hidden away so the average consumer won't fuck up their entire windows partition.

 

But seriously, go ask your mom what a command prompt, a device manager, and a partition editor is, what it does and how it works. Then come back and tell me how any of your arguments are problems for the average consumer.

 

My point is that OS's needs to be completely auto maintained, auto updated, and auto set. I remember having to use FDISK in dos to manually create partitions to install Windows. No normal consumer would ever know how to do that, and even more important, be bothered by any of it. Apple has the advantage that they have a locked eco system, so they know everything works and can maintain that easily. Microsoft does not have that advantage, but they deserve huge credit for creating a platform with an (almost) infinite amount of hardware setups, that is still auto maintaining, auto updating, etc.

 

Installing something like ubuntu is no harder than installing windows. Nor is updating it and using it. I got multiple non-techies to use it on their outdated or simply slow machines and they haven't had any real problems with it. In exchange their computers got usable again whereas windows 7 would eat their measly ram quantities for breakfast and feast on the corpse of their 32-bit cpus.

[deviant88]

It's been way better than windows for me if we ignore the low amount of games (gaming isn't that important to me), so I guess what you're saying doesn't apply to everyone.

Just a couple of days ago i installe Linux Mint 17.2 Mate and nvidia drivers failed to install, even if i dont game i wont run any OS wihtout working drivers.

And there are no drivers for my Asus Xonar.

Basically i cant watch media or do anything on it really, its a silly experience on linux it will become less popular with time.

[Nineshadow]

I suppose we just have a lot of time on our hands ^^ but in exchange we get a rolling release, the newest software, more flexibility, no unnecessary bloat of any sort and get to learn more doesn't mean I don't like other distros though, I just choose arch on systems that only I use.

I have Arch, Ubuntu GNOME and Kali on a 8GB USB stick , with a little persistent files on each of them(except arch) I still have 1GB free space on it.

Pretty awesome, even though it's not related the your conversation.

[Lauen]

Ubuntu, Elementary, and Solus (allot of the more polished distributions in general) all look better then Windows (especially 8.1) imo. . It's only a matter of time before Linux takes off in consumer products, it just keeps getting better day by day. (Dell even offers Ubuntu on their low end Inspirons, and their Highest end Workstation/ XPS laptops.)

I do like my Elementary!

[Misanthrope]

Installing something like ubuntu is no harder than installing windows. Nor is updating it and using it. I got multiple non-techies to use it on their outdated or simply slow machines and they haven't had any real problems with it. In exchange their computers got usable again whereas windows 7 would eat their measly ram quantities for breakfast and feast on the corpse of their 32-bit cpus.

 

Well yes but as I mentioned, this is as far as you can go without proper driver support. You get to install and use the OS that much has been perfected. But as soon as you ask for games? Illustrator, photoshop and premiere? Autocad and other programs like that? It gets really complex really fast or you're just shit out of luck. Particularly the gaming thing is a sore point since we're talking Steam and like I said, Valve dropped the ball and failed to muster any kind of proper GPU driver support.

[PudgyAstronaut]

People use computers like cars: As a tool that's supposed to work for you, not the other way around; so it should be able to update and maintain itself completely.

 

 

Even with my limited linux use I think I can say Linux maintains itself just fine... you for instance don't need to restart for updates, which is basically the only thing I restart for on Windows and it can be frustratitng.

[Sauron]

Well yes but as I mentioned, this is as far as you can go without proper driver support. You get to install and use the OS that much has been perfected. But as soon as you ask for games? Illustrator, photoshop and premiere? Autocad and other programs like that? It gets really complex really fast or you're just shit out of luck. Particularly the gaming thing is a sore point since we're talking Steam and like I said, Valve dropped the ball and failed to muster any kind of proper GPU driver support.

 

Of course, it depends on what you need it for. But not everyone needs to game on it, and besides dual booting is pretty easy. You could use linux for some things and windows for programs that only run there.

[patrick3027]

No one buys Android because it's Linux or in any way associated with Linux.

I'm not using Ubuntu cause it's on Linux. I'm using it because it's easier to use/cheaper/more secure than Windows.

 

lol people defending linux.......its a free OS and it still has a shite market share.....kinda says it all really

78% market share on smartphones, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight  http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp

 

@Notional You have a very interesting perspective. I feel like you should go and use ubuntu for a week. Then come back to us. I'm not sticking up for ubuntu, But it is everything you say windows is and linux isn't.

 Exactly. People here are bashing on Linux but have never used a desktop Linux OS. I'm not bashing OS X, simply because I never used it. Some people should do the same with Linux.

 

Linux sucks for home desktop users/gamers why would that be such news?

I'm a desktop user and I'm using Linux. Spoiler: it doesn't suck.

Linux market share isn't small because it sucks, it's simply because nearly every freaking PC or laptop comes with Windows pre-installed. Linux distro's are more intuitive than the crap that was Windows 8.1. Using Linux isn't hard, but installing a new distro is hard for most average people. If starting today, every laptop came with Ubunu pre-installed, Linuyx would beat Windows market share in no time.

[as96]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Linux is absolutely useless as a consumer OS. No amount of SteamOS or whatever is going to change that. Linux is a server OS, that can be used in certain workstations and thin clients. That's it though. Useless.

Useless for gaming? Yes.

Useless for a consumer OS? No.

 

Ubuntu it's perfect on my HTPC, and the setup was faster than an usual Windows installation, even the drivers were ready to go, everything was running without installing drivers manually. Sure you can make the argument that there are distribution like Arch where you need to put hours of work into configuring the OS but there are also distros like Ubuntu that are designed to be userfriendly. 

[jaggysnake57]

78% market share on smartphones, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight  http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp

 

 Exactly. People here are bashing on Linux but have never used a desktop Linux OS. I'm not bashing OS X, simply because I never used it. Some people should do the same with Linux.

 

I'm a desktop user and I'm using Linux. Spoiler: it doesn't suck.

Linux market share isn't small because it sucks, it's simply because nearly every freaking PC or laptop comes with Windows pre-installed. Linux distro's are more intuitive than the crap that was Windows 8.1. Using Linux isn't hard, but installing a new distro is hard for most average people. If starting today, every laptop came with Ubunu pre-installed, Linuyx would beat Windows market share in no time.

 

lol 

1 thats nice, but what smartphones have to do with desktop linux is beyond me.

2 people have used it and still dont like it, but yeah there is some blind hate on here

3 your opinion, not fact.

4 no linux market share comes from it being awfull to use. if it was so great it would have a much bigger market share than it does, just because every laptop comes with windows dosnt stop people from dual booting  linux

[othertomperson]

Again that is your view on things. I haven't spun on anything, and I stand by what I've said. Could an average consumer use Linux? Sure! Do they want to? Not a snow balls chance in hell. Like I said, Dell and Asus tried with Linux SKU's and they failed miserably. Valve has made a distro  specifically for gamers, and even they don't care (less than 1% is pathetic).

 

Just because some distros or should I say GUI managers aren't completely useless, does not mean that Linux suddenly becomes a viable OS for most people. There are other factors that plays in here. Or let me put it in another way. If you take a Windows user, and give them the choice between switching to OSX or Linux, with their choice of GUI manager, which one do you think people would choose? And when You've answered OSX (because let's face it, it's so given it's almost rhetorical), why do you think that is?

 

 

Because I criticize Linus as a consumer OS, I'm a fanboy? Projecting are we?

 

I'm going to address your last point first: the answer is yes. It's not because you're criticising Linux, it's because your criticisms are woefully unfounded and more applicable to Windows, the OS you are lauding over it. It would be like praising iOS over Android due to its high level of customisability. It highlights a level of ignorance in the opinion, and yes makes you sound like a huge fanboy.

 

The dissonance in your first paragraph is massive. You aren't standing by what you are saying. If something is terrible if it's associated with Linux but just fine if it's a Windows "feature" then your argument is inconsistent.

 

Do you think the average consumer even knows what an OS is? Hell they think Internet Explorer and The Internet are the same thing. Once my mum had accidentally deleted the shortcut to IE and she accused me of taking down the Internet. If you give them a choice they are likely to click the one they've heard of. This says nothing about how functional and user friendly Linux is. You are conflating marketing with usability. By this logic the Apple Watch is the best smart watch because it's the only one most people have heard of.

 

As for SteamOS. No shit it's not widely adopted yet. Valve are in the process of getting more of their library onto Linux and until it does so even advocates like me are stuck with Windows. Even when I can use Linux on my gaming PC I will probably shirk it for another distro because it's Linux and I can.

 

 

Useless for gaming? Yes.

Useless for a consumer OS? No.

 

Ubuntu it's perfect on my HTPC, and the setup was faster than an usual Windows installation, even the drivers were ready to go, everything was running without installing drivers manually. Sure you can make the argument that there are distribution like Arch where you need to put hours of work into configuring the OS but there are also distros like Ubuntu that are designed to be userfriendly. 

 

Yeah I use Kubuntu on my HTPC. Low hardware requirements, so I can get away with only having 4GB RAM (could have gone lower but I wouldn't have saved that much) and a Pentium. My Xbox 360 controller was plug and play. Linux supports Xbox hardware better than Windows does. Same is true for Dual Shock 3 controllers, actually. No additional software needed. I mainly use Kodi for watching films locally or for watching YouTube videos, but I also use In Home Streaming. It's more than appropriate for this. My dad asked me if was Windows 10 yesterday when I went into the desktop to run updates

 

 

4 no linux market share comes from it being awfull to use. if it was so great it would have a much bigger market share than it does, just because every laptop comes with windows dosnt stop people from dual booting  linux

 

PCs coming with Internet Explorer pre-installed stopped most people from using a good browser for years. Do you think an OS change is any different? There's a reason Microsoft made Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 upgrade to 10 with minimum input from the user.

[Notional]

@Notional You have a very interesting perspective. I feel like you should go and use ubuntu for a week. Then come back to us. I'm not sticking up for ubuntu, But it is everything you say windows is and linux isn't.

 

As for your android arguments. You're saying that android isn't streamlined or updated.....

You realise android is updated frequently, It is also very streamlined. You're blaming the wrong people.

for example Google release a patch, Handset makers make it so users can't update until they approve it.

You can buy a nexus device and stay up to date. People who want one of these other flavours of android buy the device because it isn't stock android. Because they can get a feature that isn't part of stock android. 

 

You saying that Microsoft wouldn't be given a free pass if a certain computer running windows didn't work...

They already do, A driver comes out that causes problems. People don't blame Microsoft because the driver is broken.

 

Back to Linux though, Linux has a small market share in the desktop market. Not because of bad support or lack of updates. It's because of people like you making people scared to try something that is no harder then what they use every day. Before you start knocking on that .9% (yes I'm rounding) market share, Realise that is still .9% of steam users. There are a lot of steam users. There are also a damn sight more PC's running linux without steam. So that small percentage is still a hell of a lot of people.

 

True, the Nexus phones are probably as close to solving what I'm criticizing in that regard. Problem is that very little of the Android market share seems to be Nexus models. Fragmentation will always be bad regardless, which is why MS is giving away Windows 10 right now.

 

You cannot compare a third party piece of software like a driver, to an internal Microsoft security update, come on. No one's blaming Google for crappy apps either. Bot honestly not even that is true. Plenty of people blamed Microsoft, when drivers where lacking at the launch of XP and to some extent Vista as well.

 

I don't have the power, nor interest in preventing anyone from switching to Linux or any other OS. I truly think the Linux society needs to look inwards to understand the lack of adoption rate. I believe the desktop market share of Linux is about 1.68% (http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=0) Still not very impressive.

 

Valve only has themselves to blame for this: They completely fucking botched the steam box releases with the ridiculous fucking delays that basically squandered away all the momentum they managed to create, all because they just had to get their stupid controller right. A year later nobody gives a shit about Steam OS or Steam boxes anymore because why should we? Valve failed to utilize the hype they've got, they failed to build their distro in a timely matter (It's fucking Debian with the Steam client running on top: not that fucking hard it would have taken only 2 or 3 months to just fucking mod Ubuntu, the thing that literally everybody does already) and this is the big one: they have some dev support but utterly fucking failed at putting any kind of pressure on Nvidia and specially AMD to get proper driver support. Seriously it's still a pitiful fucking experience that basically makes all the points @Notional made true: there is no excuse for having 20 to 30% slower performance and basically the official drivers break the fucking OS entirely if you own an older card.

 

That was always the main issue and that hasn't been addressed: driver support. There's no fucking hope of better adoption numbers without driver supports and if Valve and their unprecedented success at getting devs on board for Linux couldn't get motherfuckers off their asses coding proper drivers, nobody ever will.

 

Valve did try though. They almost publicly executed AMD at one point. I think the main point with SteamOS, is that it's not solving any problems, thus not providing any value add. It does however bring plenty of issues, like not being able to play any DX games what so ever. You could just run your Windows PC instead and use big picture mode, and you would have everything SteamOS has, but with no problems or issues. The Steam Link box makes much more sense, and will probably be a success, for people who wants to do some console gaming on their tv once in a while.

 

Actually, they do. People aren't only machines with reason. They are more than that. We care about our concepts.

Look at the fight over privacy for example. What did the NSA think when they started collecting personal information? Well, from a logical point of view, the average guy wouldn't be in any way affected by it directly, but they could catch bad guys and thus protect the citizens. It makes sense. But we all know what happened : people value their concepts, people valued their privacy. Even though some people know that NSA collecting their data couldn't hurt their person, they care that it endangers their privacy, their concept of their privacy.

 

Privacy concerns and rights have very little to do with OS choice. People don't want governments to abuse their privacy, but have little issues with Google or facebook data mining the crap out of everyone. I think you missed the point though. People wants a fully functional OS, that maintains itself and just works. Some silly new feature, they really don't care about.

 

Even with my limited linux use I think I can say Linux maintains itself just fine... you for instance don't need to restart for updates, which is basically the only thing I restart for on Windows and it can be frustratitng.

 

Yeah I hate the restarting thing. Especially in Windows 7, where Windows update acted like a 9 yo adhd kid on a sugar high. Windows 8 was a lot better. I have yet to be asked to restart Win 10, but that's probably more because of the lack of updates released. However for the average consumer, they don't run their computers 24/7, so it's not an issue for them. Personally I would love not having to restart, but even for me, it's not the end of the world, as I have no reason to run my pc 24/7 anymore.

 

 

I'm going to address your last point first: the answer is yes. It's not because you're criticising Linux, it's because your criticisms are woefully unfounded and more applicable to Windows, the OS you are lauding over it. It would be like praising iOS over Android due to its high level of customisability. It highlights a level of ignorance in the opinion, and yes makes you sound like a huge fanboy.

 

The dissonance in your first paragraph is massive. You aren't standing by what you are saying. If something is terrible if it's associated with Linux but just fine if it's a Windows "feature" then your argument is inconsistent.

 

Do you think the average consumer even knows what an OS is? Hell they think Internet Explorer and The Internet are the same thing. Once my mum had accidentally deleted the shortcut to IE and she accused me of taking down the Internet. If you give them a choice they are likely to click the one they've heard of. This says nothing about how functional and user friendly Linux is. You are conflating marketing with usability. By this logic the Apple Watch is the best smart watch because it's the only one most people have heard of.

 

As for SteamOS. No shit it's not widely adopted yet. Valve are in the process of getting more of their library onto Linux and until it does so even advocates like me are stuck with Windows. Even when I can use Linux on my gaming PC I will probably shirk it for another distro because it's Linux and I can.

 

Yeah I use Kubuntu on my HTPC. Low hardware requirements, so I can get away with only having 4GB RAM (could have gone lower but I wouldn't have saved that much) and a Pentium. My Xbox 360 controller was plug and play. Linux supports Xbox hardware better than Windows does. Same is true for Dual Shock 3 controllers, actually. No additional software needed. I mainly use Kodi for watching films locally or for watching YouTube videos, but I also use In Home Streaming. It's more than appropriate for this. My dad asked me if was Windows 10 yesterday when I went into the desktop to run updates

 

PCs coming with Internet Explorer pre-installed stopped most people from using a good browser for years. Do you think an OS change is any different? There's a reason Microsoft made Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 upgrade to 10 with minimum input from the user.

 

Well I guess it depends on how you define fanboy. If anything anti fanboy of Linux would probably be more fitting, but then again I'm not against Linux for the sake of being against them.

 

Not entirely sure I understand you second paragraph here. I'm not saying anything Linux is terrible.

 

They probably don't understand the terminology "OS", but they all know what Windows and OSX is, if they use it. The rest of that paragraph just goes to prove my point of why consumers won't care about Linux in any way. You are talking about an end user who cannot access the internet, because of a deleted shortcut, yet you criticized Windows for not easily giving end users access to partition managers and device managers (which was factually incorrect btw). Now that is dissonance. Your apple watch example is a straw man at best. It's about ease of use, compatibility, auto maintenance, etc. Lot's of people have heard about Linux too.

 

Valve proudly proclaimed more than 1000 games are on SteamOS. No the problem is that there is no value proposition in using SteamOS what so ever. There is however a lot of problems, like not being able to run any DX games. Like said earlier Steam Link makes much more sense.

 

Well the EU forced Microsoft to include a browser choice thing, that forced all new users to pick their browser of choice, before they could go on the internet. Although certain smaller browser companies say more traffic, in the long run, both Opera and Firefox lost users, so it made little to no difference.

Yes the reason was to make it simple and easy to move people to a homogenous platform. Otherwise they would not bother. Still back ups my points though.

[PudgyAstronaut]

Yeah I hate the restarting thing. Especially in Windows 7, where Windows update acted like a 9 yo adhd kid on a sugar high. Windows 8 was a lot better. I have yet to be asked to restart Win 10, but that's probably more because of the lack of updates released. However for the average consumer, they don't run their computers 24/7, so it's not an issue for them. Personally I would love not having to restart, but even for me, it's not the end of the world, as I have no reason to run my pc 24/7 anymore.

 

I want to do it for folding haha, also in the past when I run a minecraft server off of it. It's just nice to have the option to keep it running more than a week or however long before you get asked to restart.

[Notional]

I want to do it for folding haha, also in the past when I run a minecraft server off of it. It's just nice to have the option to keep it running more than a week or however long before you get asked to restart.

 

Yeah I completely agree, but then again, such a use case is more of a server use case. Or at the very least  a workstation thing.

[PudgyAstronaut]

Yeah I completely agree, but then again, such a use case is more of a server use case. Or at the very least  a workstation thing.

 

Valid point, I think all I was pointing out is sometimes Linux can be lower maintanance than Windows can. Windows could definitely stand to learn some things from linux even if linux isn't a perfect OS either.

[Nineshadow]

Privacy concerns and rights have very little to do with OS choice. People don't want governments to abuse their privacy, but have little issues with Google or facebook data mining the crap out of everyone. I think you missed the point though. People wants a fully functional OS, that maintains itself and just works. Some silly new feature, they really don't care about.

I was talking about concepts. You said people don't care about concepts, which is wrong.

[martlart]

Just a couple of days ago i installe Linux Mint 17.2 Mate and nvidia drivers failed to install, even if i dont game i wont run any OS wihtout working drivers.

And there are no drivers for my Asus Xonar.

Basically i cant watch media or do anything on it really, its a silly experience on linux it will become less popular with time.

I installed the proprietary nvidia drivers just fine, and my xonar essence stx didn't even need any drivers as they were already included.

 

edit: I'm using openSUSE 13.2