Why not make it... "bigger"?

[HD_M4N1CZ]

Okay so I know I'm probably going to get attacked for saying this, but why not just make the hardware bigger? I've seen that PC components for Desktop pc's are getting small, yet these are not being moved around and are meant to perform well, and maybe look good doing it. I don't see why manufacturers are making PC components more compact, with the reduction of power and performance. I am sure that people like having their Micro-ITX systems small enough to be a doorstop, but I can't understand why they give up performance and expandability for size. Okay, so the real question I propose is, if they are limiting their performance because of the size of system it goes into, why not make a larger scale component?! Let's say that it's the future, and they are limited to what CPU's can hold within them due to their size, why not just make a bigger CPU, with a bigger Motherboard, with a bigger Cooler, with a bigger Case, and a bigger GPU, with a bigger PSU? Okay, so big PC's aren't everyone's first choice, but if having a physically bigger system, offered a much more wider range for expandability and customisation, then why don't these companies do it?! This would give them a bigger range of sales they can make out of a new socket type motherboard, and would allow for PC enthusiasts to have much more expansion and choice, and this would also allow for much more customisation with the looks and aesthetics of the PC itself. I'm just ranting, but I think you understand what I mean by what I had just said. Me personally would enjoy something like this, i enjoy the thought that I can hold onto my case for another 5 years without changing because the GPU's are too big or the socket type is changing again. Post your thoughts on this, I will read as much as I can, but I believe some people will agree that allowing more expandability for future builds would assist many people who happen to have a very little budget, but have the ability to expand at a later date.

[AlwaysFSX]

Technology doesn't work like that, and there's no point to make shit bigger because you introduce more latency.

[dadasmithywinkle]

Okay so I know I'm probably going to get attacked for saying this, but why not just make the hardware bigger? I've seen that PC components for Desktop pc's are getting small, yet these are not being moved around and are meant to perform well, and maybe look good doing it. I don't see why manufacturers are making PC components more compact, with the reduction of power and performance. I am sure that people like having their Micro-ITX systems small enough to be a doorstop, but I can't understand why they give up performance and expandability for size. Okay, so the real question I propose is, if they are limiting their performance because of the size of system it goes into, why not make a larger scale component?! Let's say that it's the future, and they are limited to what CPU's can hold within them due to their size, why not just make a bigger CPU, with a bigger Motherboard, with a bigger Cooler, with a bigger Case, and a bigger GPU, with a bigger PSU? Okay, so big PC's aren't everyone's first choice, but if having a physically bigger system, offered a much more wider range for expandability and customisation, then why don't these companies do it?! This would give them a bigger range of sales they can make out of a new socket type motherboard, and would allow for PC enthusiasts to have much more expansion and choice, and this would also allow for much more customisation with the looks and aesthetics of the PC itself. I'm just ranting, but I think you understand what I mean by what I had just said. Me personally would enjoy something like this, i enjoy the thought that I can hold onto my case for another 5 years without changing because the GPU's are too big or the socket type is changing again. Post your thoughts on this, I will read as much as I can, but I believe some people will agree that allowing more expandability for future builds would assist many people who happen to have a very little budget, but have the ability to expand at a later date.

They are making more powerful things smaller. Like, now they have X99 mITX boards. There's no reason to make a huge $1000 X99 board that a few will buy when you can make an mITX one that many will buy.

[Guest]

exactly.

just exactly 

I wouldn't mind having a larger processor if It had twice the speed of my current 

I don't think anyone would. I was going to make a topic like this but theres probably a good reason for it and I'd just get called an idiot, 

[Knaj]

I do agree with you, as Apple's new macbook actually seems a lot worse than the previous one, but people like that kind of thing and want tiny and compact with not much performance, but some people like big and powerful. At least there is development in both sides of that.

 

Also, if instead of getting smaller and getting bigger, when computers first came out they would've gone from whole rooms to whole towns, even cities. Nobody wants that. I think the sizes we have now are good enough.

[W-L]

For case size and form factor that's really dependent on the person and what they like really but for CPU's, chips and dies the smaller they are the more they can make from one wafer and one silicon slug. It's very costly to make those materials to to be able to shrink down and use less material and make them more efficiently with new processes or standards yields a lower cost to the end consumer.

 

 

Woot Woot 5K posts

[Guest]

I do agree with you, as Apple's new macbook actually seems a lot worse than the previous one, but people like that kind of thing and want tiny and compact with not much performance, but some people like big and powerful. At least there is development in both sides of that.

 

Also, if instead of getting smaller and getting bigger, when computers first came out they would've gone from whole rooms to whole towns, even cities. Nobody wants that. I think the sizes we have now are good enough.

The size we have now is fine, but it couldn't hurt to make it a bit bigger, Space isn't typically an issue except when you want to make a Streaming PC or something

but why not introuduce a new form factor like XXL-ATX with up to 16dimms for RAM and a socket twice the size of 2011 and maybe we could see a first 16 Core i7 from Intel clocked at 4.8GHz or something, where the cooling system goes ONTO the chip, for maximum cooling efficiency because things that are closer together would produce more heat, if they where spread out the heat wouldn't be much of an issue, instead of it being tightly packed together  

[SImoHayha]

 I hope you do know that you are wrong lol. Just because they are smaller doesn't mean they aren't as powerful. The new mini not sure what card I know its an R9 card, its certainly going to be powerful.

 

besides people like smaller stuff. Shit I don't like my computer taking 80% of my damn table.

[Godlygamer23]

Three things: Cost, heat output, and power draw.

[trag1c]

Really by making things smaller you also make them bigger since with smaller hardware you can cram more of it into an area. This is very apparent with memory where the modules stay roughly the same size but have increased density due to a smaller manufacturing process. Or even with CPU cores.

[Unmintz]

Smaller chips have less travel distance for the electricity. Also, the smaller the pieces are the more you can fit in the same amount of space as before.

Basically, as I understand it Smaller = Faster

 

What you should really be asking Intel and AMD to do is make more enthusiast processors like the new X99 chips. These kinds of chips lack a graphics solution and focus completely on CPU performance. Benchmarks will probably tell you how much better this approach is for those of us with dedicated graphics.

[Godlygamer23]

Smaller chips have less travel distance for the electrical impulses. It only makes sense to condense electronics as much as possible, IMO

Basically, as I understand it Smaller = Faster

 

What you should really be asking Intel and AMD to do is make more enthusiast processors like the new X99 chips. These kinds of chips lack an APU and focus completely on CPU performance. Benchmarks will probably tell you how much better this approach is for those of us with dedicated graphics solutions.

APUs are CPUs and IGPs integrated onto the same die.

[Kyuubixchidori]

....live doesn't work that way. They can't just slap 32 ram slots on a board. Add room for 10 gpus. Make a cpu 4x as large.

That would add a insane amount of cost for the cpu, and for everything else we don't have the tech, or want to pay as much for the support for stupid amounts of ram, or the billions for r&d for more gpus.

The only thing you could make bigger is heat sinks. And with high end gear you run out of how much voltage you can push though a chip safetly before temps are a issue

[Unmintz]

APUs are CPUs and IGPs integrated onto the same die.

Yep, just me being stupid. What I mean to say is that integrated graphics are useless for the kind of person who plans on plopping a high end GPU in their rig.

The space used for the IGP could be used towards something a bit more useful. Probably. Maybe? I haven't designed a CPU but it would certainly seem that way :lol:

[Virus__]

Smaller = less heat output in theory. So i'm okay with everything getting smaller, also means less power draw in theory as well.

[HD_M4N1CZ]

....live doesn't work that way. They can't just slap 32 ram slots on a board. Add room for 10 gpus. Make a cpu 4x as large.

That would add a insane amount of cost for the cpu, and for everything else we don't have the tech, or want to pay as much for the support for stupid amounts of ram, or the billions for r&d for more gpus.

The only thing you could make bigger is heat sinks. And with high end gear you run out of how much voltage you can push though a chip safetly before temps are a issue

You didn't even understand what I was saying did you? I Meant making the actual things such as the CPU, and the RAM cards bigger, not the capacity of such things

[JerkyMcDilerino]

Three things: Cost, heat output, and power draw.

Also investment is the big key for the industry these days.

[Hunter7263]

Okay so I know I'm probably going to get attacked for saying this, but why not just make the hardware bigger? I've seen that PC components for Desktop pc's are getting small, yet these are not being moved around and are meant to perform well, and maybe look good doing it. I don't see why manufacturers are making PC components more compact, with the reduction of power and performance. I am sure that people like having their Micro-ITX systems small enough to be a doorstop, but I can't understand why they give up performance and expandability for size. Okay, so the real question I propose is, if they are limiting their performance because of the size of system it goes into, why not make a larger scale component?! Let's say that it's the future, and they are limited to what CPU's can hold within them due to their size, why not just make a bigger CPU, with a bigger Motherboard, with a bigger Cooler, with a bigger Case, and a bigger GPU, with a bigger PSU? Okay, so big PC's aren't everyone's first choice, but if having a physically bigger system, offered a much more wider range for expandability and customisation, then why don't these companies do it?! This would give them a bigger range of sales they can make out of a new socket type motherboard, and would allow for PC enthusiasts to have much more expansion and choice, and this would also allow for much more customisation with the looks and aesthetics of the PC itself. I'm just ranting, but I think you understand what I mean by what I had just said. Me personally would enjoy something like this, i enjoy the thought that I can hold onto my case for another 5 years without changing because the GPU's are too big or the socket type is changing again. Post your thoughts on this, I will read as much as I can, but I believe some people will agree that allowing more expandability for future builds would assist many people who happen to have a very little budget, but have the ability to expand at a later date.

Most of these things are capped by power and thermals. I know that you have to have a special breaker and power lines for some power supplies above 1200watts for an average household. Also what is the point of all of this performance. CPU's right now are in a good spot for the consumer space. i5 and i7 can both compile a video in 1080p 60 frames faster than you could watch it live. They dont even get maxed out for gaming in most cases. So the argument you might have is why not bigger gpu's? Because there isnt enough of a market for them. People go on and on all day about how great the 980ti is but think about this, most people have 1080p 60hz monitors. A 970 will pretty much run any game at max settings for that and a 980 certainly would except for the absolutely most demanding. The 980ti and Titan X are so far overkill for that its not even funny.

 

By shrinking dies we get far better power efficiency and thus we get far less heat produced. In supercomputers this is equally important. With SCs you have to worry about thermal output and power input soooo much more because you have so much hardware together

[Kyuubixchidori]

You didn't even understand what I was saying did you? I Meant making the actual things such as the CPU, and the RAM cards bigger, not the capacity of such things

I don't understand then. Your making things way more expensive for no gain? The raw material for things like cpus are crazy. Die shrinks is how they save money, and how cpus can cost less and less compared to 20 years ago, yet be wildly faster

[Hunter7263]

I don't understand then. Your making things way more expensive for no gain? The raw material for things like cpus are crazy. Die shrinks is how they save money, and how cpus can cost less and less compared to 20 years ago, yet be wildly faster

I wouldnt say the materials are crazy expensive. Think about this. If you can fit 1 more i7 on each set then you can earn 300 more bucks from it. Die shrinks dont necessarily save money it just allows more profit to be made. The expensive part is really the research not so much the materials.

[Kyuubixchidori]

I wouldnt say the materials are crazy expensive. Think about this. If you can fit 1 more i7 on each set then you can earn 300 more bucks from it. Die shrinks dont necessarily save money it just allows more profit to be made. The expensive part is really the research not so much the materials.

...what? Sorry I legitmely don't understand. The SOLE purpose of die shrinks is to save money. Less overall wafers overall. Ect. But what would we gain from larger motherboards and ram and the such? Curious.

Don't take anything I say as a insult, I'm tired and curious. Just stating in case it came off wrong mate:D

[W-L]

...what? Sorry I legitmely don't understand. The SOLE purpose of die shrinks is to save money. Less overall wafers overall. Ect. But what would we gain from larger motherboards and ram and the such? Curious.

Don't take anything I say as a insult, I'm tired and curious. Just stating in case it came off wrong mate:D

 

Motherboards have different sizes in terms of form factor but in general if you made it larger you would need more PCB material and longer traces and basically wasting space on the PCB for most boards. larger E-atx sized boards also exists but usually that's because of the number of features they are trying to cram on the board and have space for everything.  Also a lot of things are moving towards being integrated into a single chip or on the CPU or GPU dies itself like AMD's HBM making for better memory bandwidth.

[Hunter7263]

...what? Sorry I legitmely don't understand. The SOLE purpose of die shrinks is to save money. Less overall wafers overall. Ect. But what would we gain from larger motherboards and ram and the such? Curious.

Don't take anything I say as a insult, I'm tired and curious. Just stating in case it came off wrong mate:D

Die shrinks dont just save money. They also have save power per chip. Like I said earlier thermals and power consumption are super important.

[Guest]

Smaller chips have less travel distance for the electricity. Also, the smaller the pieces are the more you can fit in the same amount of space as before.

Basically, as I understand it Smaller = Faster

 

What you should really be asking Intel and AMD to do is make more enthusiast processors like the new X99 chips. These kinds of chips lack a graphics solution and focus completely on CPU performance. Benchmarks will probably tell you how much better this approach is for those of us with dedicated graphics.

I would love it if they made Z97 chips w/o ded graphics for MAX CPU performance, who knows kicked 6 cores into Z97...

I would personally love that

[LeightonPC]

Bigger isn't always better ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)