Considering new Macbook, convince me otherwise?

[handymanshandle]

Why buy all this, when the Surface Pro line has all these features? It is super light, has your digitizer pen, runs Windows, it is an ultrabook, runs a Core U series i5 or i7processor, has a decently fast SSD, and lots of RAM and fast RAM (featest speed that the CPU supports). It is faster and better than the Macbook Air. MacBook Air still uses a crappy TN panel and only 1366x768 resolution, that is Windows 8/10 minimum screen resolution for it to work, and not full featured.

Because I'm fairly sure that a Chromebook would be a much better than a Surface Pro just because it has a real keyboard not that crappy keyboard solution Microsoft did.

Chromebooks still boot faster, If the OP was to go for a windows ultrabook the UX303 or most Asus ultrabooks for that matter would be better than the Surface Pro.

the MBA has a similar screen to many budget Windows laptops I mean yes Apple should at least put a FHD panel in the MacBook Air.

 

I am Anti Apple, because I said that the Apple Air is what it is crap? Oh no, Apple has 1 product that I think is crap, and not pushed by Apple tehmself, OH MY GOD... I am paid by Microsoft! Apple hater! Should be banned! No one dares to insult the god that is Apple!

Please...

Apple isn't that bad, Apple never really has been. I mean Apple should have updated the MacBook Air with a Retina screen and Broadwell-U  and give a slightly thicker MacBook the Core M with a couple more USB-C and or USB 3.1 and charge a reasonable price for it (less than what they currently charge for the current MacBook) 

Your wording sounds like marketing for Microsoft.

 

 

Je ne sais pas... 

 

I like Google and Apple. Honestly a Chromebook is cheaper. (Also the Samsung Chromebook 2 looks beautiful.)

[GoodBytes]

Because I'm fairly sure that a Chromebook would be a much better than a Surface Pro just because it has a real keyboard not that crappy keyboard solution Microsoft did.

Fair enough. But most (with majority) reviewers said that they like the Surface Pro keyboard, and the reason for this is that the key size are nearly the the same as a normal keyboard, so it is fast to adapt to it. And I did a lot of coding on it, and I think it is great. You have proper tactile feedback, it is quiet operating in classroom environment, it doesn't feel like you are hitting metal/rock when you hit the keys (important for long typing session), and the way the keyboard was designed the keys travels a nice depth.

You should try it, genuinely, at a store, if you have not. I was impressed myself with it.

 

Chromebooks still boot faster.

My Surface Pro 2 boot from off state in 6sec from the power button "click" sound as you press it, to desktop, fully loaded and ready to go in 6sec. Surface Pro 3 support connected stand by for wake up process speed like your smart phone.

How fast is the Chromebook?

 

If the OP was to go for a windows ultrabook the UX303 or most Asus ultrabooks for that matter would be better than the Surface Pro.

the MBA has a similar screen to many budget Windows laptops I mean yes Apple should at least put a FHD panel in the MacBook Air.

Fine system yes. I would normally recommend them. But no pen. Remember, he wants a system for school. Like I pointed in my post, at least tried to explain, the pen is really everything, and it is very powerful, and a must for student environment.

I think you bashing the Surface Pro, because it is from Microsoft, and only because it is from Microsoft.

 

Apple isn't that bad, Apple never really has been. I mean Apple should have updated the MacBook Air with a Retina screen and Broadwell-U  and give a slightly thicker MacBook the Core M with a couple more USB-C and or USB 3.1 and charge a reasonable price for it (less than what they currently charge for the current MacBook) 

Your wording sounds like marketing for Microsoft.

I never said that Apple was bad. I think the MacBook Pro is freaking amazing! And yes you can quote me on this!

But the MacBook Air SPECIFICALLY is no, currently.

Yes, if they FINALLY upgrade the MacBook Air to 2015 area, than yea, I would say it is a fine system to consider. But it isn't right now, it would also justify the price. Right now, it doesn't. And I am not talking about "Apple tax" and all that, which I don't really agree upon, because a high quality device cost more. Quality cost money and doesn't show in specs. This include warranty service. There is a reason why pother manufactures there system is filled with junk ad software, and the warranty service sucks. I wish they were more companies making high-end system where you have this premium warranty service experience, which I think is really important. Maybe competition would push for 2 year warranty as standard on those high-end system and not the usual 1 year warranty. Who knows what will happen, but it would be a for sure a selling point in my book.

[Kyuubixchidori]

-snip-

thanks for the long write up, actually really appreciate it. love to hear both sides.  The only thing I hate with the windows surface is the keyboard, but I guess I could use any wireless keyboard. hows the battery life on the thing? will surely look into it. 

 

 

 

PS, check out http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/391678-swapping-out-laptop-display-for-different-model/... It's highly likely I'll be doing that within a week or two. If it's still before you leave for college I'll be able to confirm if it works and it might save you some $$$

will surely keep an eye on it. 

 

 

I leave to go to apply to a computer shop, come back to 16 notifications LOL. and my sister has a buddy that works for a apple store, so something I forgot to mention would be if I could get it at a discount. 

[KWelz]

The type covers for the surface pro actually are pretty good. Just avoid the touch cover, they are absolutely terrible to type on

[Cheese4395]

Because it hasn't been brought up, you might want to spend some time and check out the Dell XPS 13, it does everything you're looking for besides gaming, is a little bit cheaper, and is quite a bit more portable. 

 

Also while I don't agree with one of the above commenters on how much they are pushing for the Surface Pro 3, I do also agree that it is an outstanding 2-in-1.

[Arct1c0n]

Yeah.  A bit rabbid in his anti Apple/Pro MS stance there.  It reads like a Microsoft Marketing release.  

 

Much more like a sales pitch, damn. 

[Kyuubixchidori]

-snip-

Right now it seems to be between a

1.Macbook pro

2. standard macbook

3.lenovo t450

4. surface pro

 

keys are build quality, ease of use, battery life, and weight. 

 

I dont NEED horsepower. its for school, as long as its smooth, anything else performance wise is a mute point. storage shouldn't be a big deal, as its not storing games or music. build quality, all are high end devices so shouldn't have to worry. so it really comes down to ease of use and battery life. 

 

The type covers for the surface pro actually are pretty good. Just avoid the touch cover, they are absolutely terrible to type on

so am I getting covers mixed up then?

 

Because it hasn't been brought up, you might want to spend some time and check out the Dell XPS 13, it does everything you're looking for besides gaming, is a little bit cheaper, and is quite a bit more portable. 

 

Also while I don't agree with one of the above commenters on how much they are pushing for the Surface Pro 3, I do also agree that it is an outstanding 2-in-1.

Actually before, that was the very first laptop I considered getting. I LOVE the display. the issue is though apparently it has a VERY loud fan issue, even under little to no load

[handymanshandle]

a.) Fair enough. But most (with majority) reviewers said that they like the Surface Pro keyboard, and the reason for this is that the key size are nearly the the same as a normal keyboard, so it is fast to adapt to it. And I did a lot of coding on it, and I think it is great. You have proper tactile feedback, it is quiet operating in classroom environment, it doesn't feel like you are hitting metal/rock when you hit the keys (important for long typing session), and the way the keyboard was designed the keys travels a nice depth.

You should try it, genuinely, at a store, if you have not. I was impressed myself with it.

 

b.) My Surface Pro 2 boot from off state in 6sec from the power button "click" sound as you press it, to desktop, fully loaded and ready to go in 6sec. Surface Pro 3 support connected stand by for wake up process speed like your smart phone.

How fast is the Chromebook?

 

c.) Fine system yes. I would normally recommend them. But no pen. Remember, he wants a system for school. Like I pointed in my post, at least tried to explain, the pen is really everything, and it is very powerful, and a must for student environment.

I think you bashing the Surface Pro, because it is from Microsoft, and only because it is from Microsoft.

 

a.) I've used a Surface Pro or Surface 2 keyboard briefly (I think both of them too) it just felt sort of lack luster but I guess for a keyboard so thin that's not too bad but some how I think the MacBook's keyboard would be better. (though it might suffer from it not having as thick of a key cap as most Apple laptops have.)

 

b.) I think most Chromebooks boot in about 3 to 4 seconds (though I think if it's under 40 seconds it's not bad) what I mean by faster though is like there is less it needs to load.

 

c.) I don't know about the use of a pen. I guess when you need to write down something that can't as easily be typed (like mathematical equations) then I guess having a screen or some sort of input to hand write that stuff can be handy. I'm not really bashing the Surface because it's by Microsoft I like some of what Microsoft does (same could be said for Google and Apple) My main issue with it is it's trying to be something it shouldn't be trying to be. It's trying to be a tablet while trying to be a laptop. Asus, Lenovo, HP and Dell do this slightly better than Microsoft imho. (Personally if I couldn't afford to buy a 15" rMBP in the near future I think I'd look to Asus for something similar, I like that circular brushed Aluminum design.)

[Kyuubixchidori]

a.) I've used a Surface Pro or Surface 2 keyboard briefly (I think both of them too) it just felt sort of lack luster but I guess for a keyboard so thin that's not too bad but some how I think the MacBook's keyboard would be better. (though it might suffer from it not having as thick of a key cap as most Apple laptops have.)

 

b.) I think most Chromebooks boot in about 3 to 4 seconds (though I think if it's under 40 seconds it's not bad) what I mean by faster though is like there is less it needs to load.

 

c.) I don't know about the use of a pen. I guess when you need to write down something that can't as easily be typed (like mathematical equations) then I guess having a screen or some sort of input to hand write that stuff can be handy. I'm not really bashing the Surface because it's by Microsoft I like some of what Microsoft does (same could be said for Google and Apple) My main issue with it is it's trying to be something it should be trying to be. It's trying to be a tablet while trying to be a laptop. Asus, Lenovo, HP and Dell do this slightly better than Microsoft imho. (Personally if I couldn't afford to buy a 15" rMBP in the near future I think I'd look to Asus for something similar, I like that circular brushed Aluminum design.)

Guess I should go to the mall and try both keyboards and compare. 

 

I  personally dont really like chromebooks. I used them every other day in high school, they are hella nice for chrome, and the best device for it. but, anything more then that and they hit a brick wall. with a mac I can dualboot, so very open. with a windows, its well windows. so Ill never be in a situation where I cant do something I may need to software wise

[MG2R]

Guess I should go to the mall and try both keyboards and compare.

*cough*Lenovo keyboard*cough*

 

Actually have never tried it myself, but everyone and their dog says it's "da best evar". Apple's keyboards on the MBP's are amazing as well though (and those I have tried personally)

[Arct1c0n]

I just now had to service a client with her new damn Macbook with ANOTHER god damn adapter to be able to use the ONLY  USB -C port which gives you power/HDMI and USB so I could install driver for a printer because god knows how long it will be until we see USB-C thumbdrives.

 

  I seriously didn't think I could hate Apples business and marketing practices anymore, but I do now. 

[Kyuubixchidori]

*cough*Lenovo keyboard*cough*

 

Actually have never tried it myself, but everyone and their dog says it's "da best evar". Apple's keyboards on the MBP's are amazing as well though (and those I have tried personally)

Im sure I can find a store locally to try it! I always had a soft spot for apples displays. Never knew 768P could look so nice. excited to see the display on the macbook, Didnt look at it closely last time i was there

I just now had to service a client with her new damn Macbook with ANOTHER god damn adapter to be able to use the ONLY  USB -C port which gives you power/HDMI and USB so I could install driver for a printer because god knows how long it will be until we see USB-C thumbdrives.

 

  I seriously didn't think I could hate Apples business and marketing practices anymore, but I do now. 

Mate, I honestly can't remember the last time i Plugged in ANYTHING into my laptop besides power. 

[handymanshandle]

Guess I should go to the mall and try both keyboards and compare. 

 

I  personally dont really like chromebooks. I used them every other day in high school, they are hella nice for chrome, and the best device for it. but, anything more then that and they hit a brick wall. with a mac I can dualboot, so very open. with a windows, its well windows. so Ill never be in a situation where I cant do something I may need to software wise

I don't think Microsoft sells the soft type cover any more.

For productivity (Making Documents, Presentations, etc.) Chromebooks are pretty nice for that. I almost think my school district is almost pretty much done with MS Office (for the most part) In recent memory all of my projects for English, Geography/Social Studies, and Science have been done on Drive. Though definitely content creation and other stuff like that a Chromebook does hit a brick wall certainly. (Gaming, Video Editing/Composition, Photo Editing/Composition, Music Composition/Creation, In some instances Programming [though not totally impossible on a Chromebook]). 

[Arct1c0n]

 

Mate, I honestly can't remember the last time i Plugged in ANYTHING into my laptop besides power. 

 

Then you don't work at a large college campus

[Kyuubixchidori]

Then you don't work at a large college campus

....no, I don't work at a school, I'm a student who needs a web browser/note taking machine that will last 4 years and have a amazing battery life

[GoodBytes]

The type covers for the surface pro actually are pretty good. Just avoid the touch cover, they are absolutely terrible to type on

Yea. it is a awful. Microsoft stop making it, which is good. Beside it made no sense, it's like 10$ more, you have a proper keyboard.

[Swndlr]

I'm buying a Macbook 2015 purely because it looks good. And I'm a sucker for good looking devices. 

 

Could I get a better PC? Of course.

 

But I have my desktop for that. And Windows trackpads are a joke.

The only good Windows trackpad Ive ever used is the one on my Blade

[GoodBytes]

so am I getting covers mixed up then?

I don't know. It actually have keys that you can press. The touchpad has been greatly improved from the Pro 2. Not saying it like Apple one. But it is a reasonable one. Like most of the 'good' touchpad on the PC laptop world, you may need to clean it every now and then to perform properly. Maybe once a day thing. But you'll probably just use the touch screen. The device is small and allows this. And of course the touchpad is small due to the device size, but bigger than the Pro 1 and 2 model. For serious work, like all PC laptops, you'll probably get a mouse of sorts.

Windows 10 should improve the touchpad with gestures (about freaking time!), to helping navigation.

 

Actually before, that was the very first laptop I considered getting. I LOVE the display. the issue is though apparently it has a VERY loud fan issue, even under little to no load

That is really not normal. The fan should not kick in unless you are doing a system virus scan, or playing a game, or well basically something demanding. I guess the simple and easiest test, is to go at a store that sells the device, and look at the demo unit, they have running all day, so should be warm, play a video or something, wait a bit, and put your ear close to the top of the system where the vents are. I think you'll see how it doesn't spin.

The only problem it has, is compared to the Pro 2 revision 2, and we compare the Pro 3 with the i5 CPU (both the Pro 3 Core i5 and Pro 2 revision 2 have the same CPU: Core i5-4300U, the Pro 3 will be less powerful because it will throttle sooner, and more than the Pro 2, due to fact that the Pro 2 has 2 fans, larger heatsink, and 2 of them. While the Pro 3, has a C shape heatsink design around the fan to help boost cooling, it is only 1, and thinner, reducing surface area.

However, the Pro 4 which is coming out soon, although, we have no idea when, is rumored to have Skylake CPU, at worst Broadwell-U, which regardless, should help with the throttling.

By the way, when I say throttle, I don't mean it goes down to 200MHz or something like that, unless I was lied to (again I only have the Pro 2, not Pro 3), it just doesn't turbo boost anymore, which is what I perceive in my case in my Pro 2 as well.

Under such condition, the device does run quiet warm. but you can still hold it, the keyboard/cover flipped on the back will make it so that you don't feel anything. The battery selected is not sensitive to high heat, and won't degrade fast due to extended high heat. My old laptop, that was an issue. Degraded my battery a lot that way. Was very noticeable. Quickly passed from 9h to 7h, down to 5h. Had to replace it after 1 year and half, as I didn't have A/C, during summer time, and playing games on it. This is despite having the battery away from the heat on the back of the system. My Surface Pro 2 (which I doubt Microsoft changed it) doesn't face this problem. In a AMA Reddit post, Microsoft Surface team said that the battery is rated for beings able to deliver about 80% of its capacity after 4 years. This is similar to Apple specs for its internal batteries in their MacBook Pro if I am not mistaken (which is probably the same for all MacBook's). I think those batteries are particularly expensive, as I don't know many manufacture using it beside Microsoft and Apple. Maybe Razer, but they are not saying.

[Kyuubixchidori]

-snip-

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/305007-update-tim-change-xps-13-2015-review/

 

ah, thats where I saw it from

 

"The fan is also noticeably and annoyingly loud. Even using the laptop, browsing in bed leads to annoying fan speed. This is the only con to the laptop in my opinion. The low CPU TDP did not help fan noise."

 

@Ghost

 

hows the noise after the TIM change? 

 

I feel if I go surface, I may very well just get a nicer bluetooth keyboard+mouse. maybe a nice mech keyboard for my dorm? who knows. Also, not sure if you mentioned it, how was the battery life on the surface? and I'm VERY used to hot devies, my galaxy s4 likes to sit at 68*C if you use it for more than 5 minutes. 

 

and thank you guys, I appreciate the help and extra knowledge so far. 

[KWelz]

Yea. it is a awful. Microsoft stop making it, which is good. Beside it made no sense, it's like 10$ more, you have a proper keyboard.

Smartest thing they have done then.   I would like to know what drunken monkey designed that stupid thing.   

[GoodBytes]

ah, thats where I saw it from

Ah ok! I am surprised that this is from a Dell XPS system, to be honest. Inspiron line, ro a HP system, I could understand. But Dell XPS?

I feel if I go surface, I may very well just get a nicer bluetooth keyboard+mouse. maybe a nice mech keyboard for my dorm? who knows. Also, not sure if you mentioned it, how was the battery life on the surface? and I'm VERY used to hot devies, my galaxy s4 likes to sit at 68*C if you use it for more than 5 minutes.

Oh crap, I forgot to mention in my post. A problem with the Surface line (all of them, so far) which sucks big time, which is the same for all laptops with magnesium alloy construct (this includes my old laptop), is that they are painted. Now I am not a material engineer to know why that is the case, but I have never seen magnesium body being dyed in some fashion. Always painted. I think that you can't do it, or the results aren't good.

So what does it mean? Anything will scratch it.

You can get vinyl wrapping of many designed from matte black texture, to all sorts of colors, and even transparent, or you can be careful by putting the device down on the table on the side of the cover, and use a sleeve when you put it on the bag. Make sure that the inside of the sleeve is in nice soft fabric and not nylon or something like that. That is if you want to keep it in the best condition possible. That is a downside of the device. Microosft switch form black to silver'ish color (they call it Magnesium, despite not being exactly that color), to reduce the visibility (and yes they said it), of light scratches, because with black paint, it is a very visible. It's like white on black, pretty much. It has been 1 year and a half, I have my Surface Pro 2, and it is in great condition. Paint removed at the edge of the USB port, DisplayPort, and power connector, but very thin, you don't really see it unless you look closely at it. Although I was careful, as I got used to it from my previous laptop, which was the same story. I know some people it is far worst.

You can maybe get one of those cases, but I have yet to find one that doesn't interfere the kick-stand fully. But it has been a while since I looked.

I wish Microsoft would switch to aluminum, and then you don't care about it, like an iPad, but I think they are avoiding this, else it will look like an iPad. Not sure if they are scratch resistant paint they might be able to use that look good, probably not as it would use it by now.

Battery Life! Yes, Sorry I forgot.

From reviews, it looks like it floats in the 6.5-7 hoursdoing stuff on the system. Microsoft rates it at 9h of web surfing (probably minimum screen brightness), which other reviews says that it about right. In my case, on my Pro 2, I can get 12h which over Microsoft 7h claim for old Pro 2... but that is: WiFi off, Bluetooth off, screen brightness minimum, system idle, backlit keyboard/cover light off, reading a PDF. So the good news is that Microsoft rating isn't like some manufactures that gets an unrealitic situation to get the best battery life.

It must be noted that battery life during web surfing will vary based on website you view, and which web browser you use. You can be sure that IE11 was used in those rating, and probably those that confirms the 9h battery life. In the case you don't know, IE11 is the web browser with the best battery life. That, full proper high-DPI support, and multi-touch support, are the only up side that IE11 has over any other web browser. I dont' think I need to list the downsides of IE11.

Chrome will eat your battery life. That you can be assured of. I guess Firefox is the web browser that balances both. Although zooming on Firefox is such a pain. And the GUI is not high-DPI supported, only the content of the page. So the page appears nice and fine, but the buttons, and such of the web browser, are all blurry. Chrome is in similar situation.

Personally I can't wait for Microsoft Edge, once it is fully complete. Microsoft is rushing it, and from what I can see from Windows 10 preview, it has all the upside listed from IE11, which is excellent, faster than IE11, and that is noticeable. It does support properly a great number of web standards, which is FINALLY about time. Has the ability to detect IE11 design page, and can switch engine on the fly for compatibility. Benchmark scores is sad. I don't know if it's because the web browser runs under IE11 on those pages, or that Microsoft is more busy adding web standard support than optimization, but scores shows that the performance is just not really there.

Extension support won't make it on day 1. But Microsoft said that unlike IE, Edge will get continuous updates like other web browser. No need to wait for the next version of Windows. It will be like other web browser. Updates will be sent through the new app store of Windows 10. So if you have automatic update you'll probably not notice any updates.

Personally, the moment extension support comes it (which Microsoft claims that there is little work only to port Chrome and Firefox add-ons to Edge for most of them), I will definitely switch. Even if performance is not there, I expect it to be faster than IE11, due to the implementation of open source, well known, proven engines. And performance increase will come in time, as they start optimizing it. If battery life remains as good as IE11 or similar, I think it will be promising experience, due to the proper high-DPI support, super smooth scrolling and zooming, and multi-touch support as mentioned.

[GoodBytes]

Smartest thing they have done then.   I would like to know what drunken monkey designed that stupid thing.

Well it is technologically impressive. As it was detecting how much pressure you are applying to the keys, so detect if you are just have your finger sitting on the keyboard or actually pressing on them, and was fine tuned to emulate the same force needed to apply to a normal keyboard, and not have harmer your fingers in.

While cool and all, it is obviously not practical. I think the reason why they made it/sold it, is that the initial idea of the Surface line was: Here is what we can do, and not, lets compete in that space. I think the Surface Pro, was the GeForce Titan of Microsoft, if you will.

[MblaZe7run]

I don't know what program you are in, but a computer science ex-student, I highly recommend the Surface Pro 3 (I have the Pro 2).

This system is VERY powerful for it's form factor.Any other system from other manufacture are less powerful, drastically, with only Atom based CPU,  or sever throttling and always on fan.

The Surface Pro 3 is ultra quiet operation, feature a Core i5 CPU Haswell U series (not Y series, so it is a "real deal"). You have a tablet and laptop in hand.

It features a high resolution high-PPI display IPS panel, full size USB 3.1 connector, and the most important part: Digitize pen.

Don't mean to bud in here, but the device is ultra quiet, assuming it is cool. Once it reaches around 70*C, expect that itty-bitty fan to spin up and make some noise. It's easily tuned out, and masked by ambient noise, but if you listen for it or let it get super hot/run it hot for a while, it is rather loud.

 

The USB connection is NOT USB 3.1. It is a USB 3.0 Type-A connector, capable of 5Gb/s, not the 10Gb/s of 3.1.

 

Source: Owner for roughly 10 months.

[Kyuubixchidori]

Don't mean to bud in here, but the device is ultra quiet, assuming it is cool. Once it reaches around 70*C, expect that itty-bitty fan to spin up and make some noise. It's easily tuned out, and masked by ambient noise, but if you listen for it or let it get super hot/run it hot for a while, it is rather loud.

 

The USB connection is NOT USB 3.1. It is a USB 3.0 Type-A connector, capable of 5Gb/s, not the 10Gb/s of 3.1.

 

Source: Owner for roughly 10 months.

does it get noisy in most normal situations? web browsing/office work?

[MblaZe7run]

does it get noisy in most normal situations? web browsing/office work?

After a few hours, yes. When I first got the SP3, I ran Prime95 for about 3 hours, and it was louder than my desktop (processor maxed out, mind you, and sitting at 85*C), but you also have to remember that the fan is very, very small

 

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/BOlGZVRNkuREk1c1.medium (wouldn't let me post picture on the forum, assuming it might be a copyright issue with iFixit?)

 

That itty-bitty thing (photo courtesy of iFixit's official SP3 Teardown found here) is able to take your SP3 from about 90*C to around 70*C in under 30 seconds, as reported by HWMonitor. But back to what you asked, it should be fairly quiet under normal use. The only time I've had issues with it is when I had a million Chrome and FireFox tabs open, as well as an MS Office document up.