Will windows 8 get better, or is it another vista? then again... how is vista doing in support?

[GoodBytes]

give the option to remove metro and ill be happy, pretty much all my games but css, tf2 and 1.6 have crashed. But i think that might be because i installed the games on an HDD seperate from my windows 7 install, then reinstalled windows to windows 8 but never reinstalled the games.

 

My games don't crash. TF2 never crashed on my side.

I think you have a driver problem, or your games, as you didn't install them, are using wrong version of library files it is depending on, and on that version from API calls have changed or removed.

[That Norwegian Guy]

Almost all of Goodbytes' 2K posts is defending anything and everything about Windows 8, pretty tiresome to say the least. Bring up a valid criticism (like huge problems with unsigned drivers in win 8 because it's built to protect idiots from themselves) and he will say how it's necessary and how making huge amounts of peripherals with embedded drivers useless without extremely painful temporary workarounds is 'fine'.

 

 You must get an ulcer if you're going to try white knighting against every criticism leveraged against Windows 8? Because people have them whether you like it or not. And for god's sake, stop repeating yourself. WE GET IT, YOU LIKE METRO!

[GoodBytes]

Almost all of Goodbytes' 2K posts is defending anything and everything about Windows 8, pretty tiresome to say the least. Bring up a valid criticism (like huge problems with unsigned drivers in win 8 because it's built to protect idiots from themselves) and he will say how it's necessary and how making huge amounts of peripherals with embedded drivers useless without extremely painful temporary workarounds is 'fine'.

 

 You must get an ulcer if you're going to try white knighting against every criticism leveraged against Windows 8? Because people have them whether you like it or not. And for god's sake, stop repeating yourself. WE GET IT, YOU LIKE METRO!

 

Actually I have a list of things I don't like about Windows in general. I'll make a list later on, I have to go eat now.

And no, most of my posts are not defending Windows actually.

[Hans Christian | Teri]

Here is my start screen (old picture), if you need some guidance.

I don't see it why it could annoy someone, honest.

 

For starters it fills the entire screen for no apparent reason and on top of that the search function never got it right so I always had to use my mouse to maneuver to another category or select number 2 or 3 on the list, making the function rather pointless. Start8 fixed both problems. 

[Darell3]

Windows 8 is fine for me! I play every single game I have without any compatibility issues. Only Issue was borderlands 2 but after a quick windows 8 patch it fixed it. I play the first crysis and it works fine.

[Whiskers]

The issue with Vista on this, is the switch to 64-bit.

Manufactures didn't want to spend money on supported old products. Making 64-bit drivers is not a click away. A lot of the 32-bit drivers was dependent of very old legacy stuff, which company used to safe money instead of making things right. As Vista dropped A LOT of legacy support stuff in order to support new technologies, and desperately needed much improved security, as XP security is almost none existence, as it's based on 1993 code, way before the internet as we know today, still living in the ideal world that no one will do viruses and such and spread it over the internet, and all that.

Hackers, Virus maker, malware makers, knew all the security issues of XP, that is why Microsoft decided to scrap the old NT core and restart from almost scratch with Vista (NT6). The issue with this, is that Microsoft lost a lot of optimization that was developed and improved upon for many years in Windows, and bugs that didn't exists before appeared... as it's new code.

Oh I agree completely, Vista was superior to XP at the time for security. But backwards compatibility with both hardware and (to a significantly lesser but still slightly irritating degree) software was neutered, and that was a major problem at the time. Most people I know who used Vista for some time ended up having a lot of difficulties (myself included) and those of them who switched to Windows 7 noted a much better experience.

In retrospect, I suppose Vista was a necessary step towards producing Windows 7. But nonetheless, I felt that it was a buggy and unpleasant OS to have or use.

Almost all of Goodbytes' 2K posts is defending anything and everything about Windows 8, pretty tiresome to say the least. Bring up a valid criticism (like huge problems with unsigned drivers in win 8 because it's built to protect idiots from themselves) and he will say how it's necessary and how making huge amounts of peripherals with embedded drivers useless without extremely painful temporary workarounds is 'fine'.

You must get an ulcer if you're going to try white knighting against every criticism leveraged against Windows 8? Because people have them whether you like it or not. And for god's sake, stop repeating yourself. WE GET IT, YOU LIKE METRO!

Chill, man. :]

I'm sure GoodBytes is a good guy. I may disagree with him on this topic, but I respect that he argues with facts and intellect.

[GoodBytes]

For starters it fills the entire screen for no apparent reason and on top of that the search function never got it right so I always had to use my mouse to maneuver to another category or select number 2 or 3 on the list, making the function rather pointless. Start8 fixed both problems. 

Win+F, Win+W, Win+Q

But yes that was fixed in WIn8, I did complain about that.

 

The Start screen fills you screen to fit more items. And to give you more information. So there are reasons for this.

[GoodBytes]

Ok, so while you many of you guys are stuck with Mr Start Screen that you don't like, or think I am defending Windows like no tomorrow.

I have my own list of issues with Windows... this list is what comes up in my head. There are also a lot of dev stuff, which I decided not to put as it would be complicated to explain, but I put a few ones in there which could be understood. Please note that this list is not exclusive to Windows 8. Many items mentioned are issues in Windows that previous version of Windows had and continues to have now.

Are you ready?

Enjoy!

- Color profiles aren’t applied to Windows desktop environment.

- You cannot add folders to the Start Menu (7 and before), on the Folder and panel section (right side column)

- You cannot make tiles in Windows 8 to open desktop applications.

- Desktop application can’t install a modern UI app, which can get information, and when clicked on, start the desktop application.

- Windows 8 search doesn’t clear sometimes the search box when you doing a new search

- Windows 8 is hard to shutdown/restart/sleep/etc your computer. Even in Windows 8.1. The right-click menu on the Start Button, you can see, it’s there as an afterthought.

- Start Screen tiles have a slow refresh rate. I know why Microsoft did this, it’s mostly for keeping things updated while the system is at sleep. But it would be nice to have a fast mode, which would allow more advance widgets to be made… like CPU load.

- No ability to interrupt the entire system with the task manager. When you system is down to a crawl because of a program(s) or game, it would be nice to be able to interrupt the system, and kill that process.

- When a program implement “Help” entry to the context menu, it shows at the bottom of the close button

- No podcast support on Media Player and Music/Video app.

- No ability to block all start-up and non-Windows default services at start-up. It would be nice to be able to press and hold, I don’t’ know, the shift key, let’s say, while it start-up to block, at least start-up programs.

- No drag & drop in the breadcomb bar

- If you have a black border in Win8, the text of programs doesn’t change to white.

- No ability to select the color for unfocused window border

- Ribbon bar is not matching the more polished Office one. In fact all folders should look like Office 2012 in my opinion, or like the Zune applications

- Microsoft doesn’t care about gaming on PC anymore. They should push publishers and game devs to properly make their games on Windows, by using the Saved Games Folder, and do more to push PC gaming. Including scrapping and redoing from scratch Games for Windows Live.

- Windows has power management for everything except GPU.

- Task Manager should know and display system temperature, including max temp, for at least ambient, CPU and GPU. This will allow to know and fix a lot of people problems related to system shutdown, or throttle, and don’t know why.

- Scaling as you want modern UI app (now in Windows 8.1, so I guess cross that)

- A lot of panels in the Control Panel are not unified and still pop-up a panel or look like it comes from Windows 3.1

- No undo/Redo for Snipping Tool. Also it saves file extension in capital letter, it’s the only program that does this. Moreover, when you take a screen shot of a window, it doesn’t take it with no background and with its shadow.

- Sound system of Windows doesn’t allow direct hardware communication, like it can with GPUs

- Music app sometimes mutes the sound when you which back to desktop. It usually happens when you hit play and immediately switch to desktop while the music is loading or steaming.

- Video streaming from one computer to another is not great (when it works it’s awesome, but sometimes it drops), and difficult to setup

- Windows Media Player is untouched. While WMP12 is amazing, there is still a lot of work to be done.

- Hyper-V doesn’t support 32-bit colors, and basic 3D rendering to start with.

- No multiple user support for Windows remote desktop

- They are 2x Open/Save dialog box API. Old and new. The looks of the old one is not updated. I know they have done this for compatibility, but the old style could be used if you run the program under capability mode. And/Or the new style might be set to only have the same settings as the old one. This allows for the same experience between applications.

- Difficult to control Recording volume (you need to pass through the Sound panel)

- Shared memory space is limited to 4GB or can go higher if you have significantly more RAM, but it’s not proportional (this is a developer thing)

- Software memory space limitation should not exists. (this is a developer thing)

- Software that have and want a control panel entry, should have access to a full set of API to make their embedded inside the Windows Control Panel.

- Microsoft should continue to improve their built-in Windows apps. Apple does, why not Windows?

- Document thumbnails (on supported formats), should be able to represents number of pages. Right now it’s generic.

- No ability to customize the Right-click menu. A lot of applications add crap in there. It would be nice to have a convenient way to be able to remove either item by item, or unload the dll in charge of adding a set of entries.

- Media Pack add-on for Windows 8 should contain Blu-ray playback and add Media Player codec for that including DVD.

- When an error occurs on Move or Copy operation, the entire operation is canceled.

- No support for multiple audio devices simultaneously

- Registry editor left untouched. Would be nice to at least have an address bar.

- Default Programs is slow and not easy to set things up, and doesn’t work right many times

- In Folders, columns should expends max width wise to best fit information. Right now, you have a large empty space on the right.

- On media items, preview pane should show. Or have such options, for quick play/preview.

- Tool tip on Minimize, Maximize, and Close button is from Windows 95.

- Inconsistent panel looks. Some panels the tabs background is gray others white. Some background of icons inside are gray or white. Some switch as they please. Buggy and non-consistent.

- On a domain joined computer, there is no option to select to log in a local account. You have to do “.\” on the user name field, before typing the user name.

- A lot of panels you have tab bars, but only have 1 tab there… what’s the point? Remove it! (example, see Advance Power Option panel)

- Multiple monitor background improvement needed

- Clock on each monitor support is needed as option.

- MSCONFIG needs a revamp, It’s difficult to use, and could be better especially on startup and what you are doing.

- They are some icons in Windows that are from Windows 95.

- White background on folder preview content

- Ribbon bar in Windows built-in program is inconstant with the rest of the OS (especially in Windows 8, where the ribbon bar is now on every folder. Why isn’t the same code being used… so that further updates of the ribbon bar, will keep all built-in applications the same? And so are programs using the ribbon bar APIs)

- Spellcheck in desktop app non-existent.

- Folder or File in use error, does not specify which program is using it.

- Permission editor is too complicated

- Network folder sharing is a pain. Many times for no reason what’s so ever you share a folder, and no computer can see it. Then a reboot later, now it works.

- In Windows 8 the Detail Panel is from Windows 7, it was left untouched and doesn’t fit with Windows 8 looks

- If explorer crashes, folders are not restored. It should log this and recover.

- Ability to Restart and Restore last session. Due to a Windows Update you need to restart your computer. If Windows make it easier, I think more people would do it. How about when you restart your computer, once log back in, it re-opens all your programs and projects in programs (if it can), and folders. While it won’t be perfect, it helps.

- Disk Management is limited in power, and old.

- Pie chart for disk capacity have never been touch since its introduction. Still assumes 16 colors displays.

- Media Center -> no effort. Why Media Center add-on programs are always web based IE pages. It needs a set of APIs, so that you can allow embedded programs, like Netflix and Hulu. It should also support way more video formats. This is few of many issues and limitation that Media Center have, which didn’t make it interested to anyone. Well it’s clear that Microsoft doesn’t care as we have Xbox One for that. So Media Center looks like, has been pulled. So I won’t go in those issues.

- (Dev) Windows Forms / .NET should not feel a part of the OS and made it look like its part of the OS. Fonts set to Microsoft Sans MS or Tahoma instead of the Windows font (which it should automatically get, based on user settings), and menu bars looks nothing than the one from the OS, and little things for every components.

- Hi-DPI settings for desktop apps requires A LOT of work. Now high-DPI screens are becoming more and more popular, why Microsoft is behind this?

- If the Recycle bin icon is pinned on the Start Screen, its icon is not updated based on if the recycle bin is empty or full.

and more...

Oh and I excluded, although mentioned a few, the list of issues with the interface.

For example, issues like when you have the glass effect for Aero Snap, all 3 corner of 4 are sharp square in Windows 8, but the top left one is round cornered a bit.. oups!

Already you probably stop reading by now, that is why I made it short.

So what was your list of stuff you didn't like about Windows? Oh yea! Start Screen.

Well guess I hate Windows more then you guys.

[fracking4oil]

For starters it fills the entire screen for no apparent reason...

That's why god invented the secondary monitor (this one I got free)... ;)

[EChondo]

For starters it fills the entire screen for no apparent reason

Agreed. I don't like having my entire screen filled to the brim, it just doesn't make any sense. Maybe it's because the Metro UI and the Desktop UI can't co-exist, therefore Microsoft has to limit it.

 

That's why god invented the secondary monitor (this one I got free)... ;)

 

A secondary monitor still doesn't fix the problem.

[fracking4oil]

Agreed. I don't like having my entire screen filled to the brim, it just doesn't make any sense. Maybe it's because the Metro UI and the Desktop UI can't co-exist, therefore Microsoft has to limit it.

 

A secondary monitor still doesn't fix the problem.

 

 

Uh, I just showed you in the above screenshot that Metro and the Desktop CAN co-exist.

[Skanic]

Back in the beta days of Windows 8, I tried to play Down of War II Retribution, wouldn't run. Recently my friend tried to get GTA4 to work on his computer (which has Windows 8) and it wouldn't run.

 

I've only had compatibility problems with those 2 games. 

I have played DoW II Retribution and GTA4 since windows 8 came out, and did not run into any problems.

I can even play Gothic 2 which is a game from 2003 and Shadow Warrior works to which is from 1997.

[diiPex]

Windows 8 support is definitely improving.  When I first installed win 8 cod: 4 didn't work due to an incompatibility with the old version of punkbuster it was using, but it was fixed like a month later.  I haven't come across any incompatibility's since.  

[Hans Christian | Teri]

Win+F, Win+W, Win+Q

But yes that was fixed in WIn8, I did complain about that.

 

The Start screen fills you screen to fit more items. And to give you more information. So there are reasons for this.

 

Only the more items and more information does not make any sense for me. The only times I open my start menu is with my windows key, I will then continue to type in the 3 or 4 first letters of what I need and then press enter. It's a 1 second operation tops when it works well, which it does with the old start menu (as it somehow always guesses what I need). Now you could say that the fact that it fills the entire screen doesn't matter when it's just for a second, but I just find it so horribly distracting. :(

[EChondo]

Uh, I just showed you in the above screenshot that Metro and the Desktop CAN co-exist.

No, what I am saying is that you can't drag and drop between the two. They are completely different environments, they can't co-exist. Sure, they can co-exist on separate screens, but what I'm saying that can't co-exist on the same screen AND talk to each other.

 

For example(and GoodBytes or anyone else can correct me if I am wrong), can I view photos that I have in a folder on my Desktop, while I'm in the Metro UI? Because as far as I am concerned, Metro can't talk to Desktop, and Desktop can't talk to Metro.

[GoodBytes]

That is correct. As mentioned in my list of issues. Desktop applications can't communicate with Modern UI.

Microsoft did this for sandboxing purposes. Essentially, if someone manages to install a modern UI app from the desktop, and not via the Windows Store, then that Modern UI app can't be harmful to the system in any way.

 

See, sandboxing is talked a lot in the industry, and it was talked about back with Vista days and Windows 7, on how Microcosmic should sandbox everything. Well, what you are seeing now, are the many but MANY downsides of sandboxing. Anyway, Microsoft should relax things a bit in my opinion to help merge the two a bit. Honestly, I don't see that becoming a reality. This is a BIG change that Microsoft needs to do. So I expect maybe in Windows 9. Definitely not in a Windows 8.x area. (So in 3 years?)

[EChondo]

That is correct. As mentioned in my list of issues. Desktop applications can't communicate with Modern UI.

Microsoft did this for sandboxing purposes. Essentially, if someone manages to install a modern UI app from the desktop, and not via the Windows Store, then that Modern UI app can't be harmful to the system in any way.

 

See, sandboxing is talked a lot in the industry, and it was talked about back with Vista days and Windows 7, on how Microcosmic should sandbox everything. Well, what you are seeing now, are the many but MANY downsides of sandboxing. Anyway, Microsoft should relax things a bit in my opinion to help merge the two a bit. Honestly, I don't see that becoming a reality. This is a BIG change that Microsoft needs to do. So I expect maybe in Windows 9. Definitely not in a Windows 8.x area. (So in 3 years?)

Possibly so. It just sucks that I personally am a power user, so not being able to make full use of the system without swapping back and forth is really daunting on my experiences and ease of use.

 

I am really hoping that Microsoft changes this or allows two different versions or something so I can change this on a personal level. Maybe have a hidden option or something so you have to go out of your way to go back to the previous UI. This is my only real gripe about Windows 8, and it's a pretty big issue to me.

[NinjaStyle013]

Im still using XP but I'll go straight to 8 when I upgrade. 8 isn't a second vista its just a young OS. Its still growing.

 

8 doesn't have the nazi security of Vista & theres tangible performace boost on Windows 8. Companies WILL make sure that there programs run on the latest update so you just gotta give it time.

[GoodBytes]

@EChondo,

The better news, is that you need to have it this way. Use the Start Screen as a Star Menu but full screen, and your are fine.

[GoodBytes]

Im still using XP but I'll go straight to 8 when I upgrade. 8 isn't a second vista its just a young OS. Its still growing.

 

8 doesn't have the nazi security of Vista & theres tangible performace boost on Windows 8. Companies WILL make sure that there programs run on the latest update so you just gotta give it time.

Ouch! From XP. The learning curve will be VERY steep. Wait, didn't say this to you before? If so, sorry.

Nazi security system didn't change since Vista. The only difference, is that if you are Administrator, you only have UAC elevation messages that shows when it's really system related (see it as it auto allows). But if a program attempts to do the same task as you, which in your case don't experience the UAC dialog box, it will be blocked, as it doesn't have elevated credentials. Personally I find Vista more relaxed than Linux, but that's just me. Might be just a perception thing.

[NinjaStyle013]

Ouch! From XP. The learning curve will be VERY steep. Wait, didn't say this to you before? If so, sorry.

Nazi security system didn't change since Vista. The only difference, is that if you are Administrator, you only have UAC elevation messages that shows when it's really system related (see it as it auto allows). But if a program attempts to do the same task as you, which in your case don't experience the UAC dialog box, it will be blocked, as it doesn't have elevated credentials. Personally I find Vista more relaxed than Linux, but that's just me. Might be just a perception thing.

Yeah, using 8 in the shops I got mad because everything had been renamed.

 

I had linux for awhile due to having no OS & forced to install it if I wanted a pc. It was so horrible IDK why people like it it ran nothing.

[GoodBytes]

Yeah, using 8 in the shops I got mad because everything had been renamed.

Yea, huge change. But once you get used to it, you'll see how much more sense it makes. (Vista + Win7 changes)

Same for the new file/folder structure.

 

I would check out Windows V7 and 8 tour videos on Microsoft web site if you haven't yet. I think it will help you a lot. You are still missing Vista, but it's something.

Windows 7 tour: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows7/products/videos#1TC=seeall

How to use Windows 7/8 search: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows7/advanced-tips-for-searching-in-windows

(there used to be a full list of filters, they are thousands of them, but I cant' find the link as it has been moved (or removed) on Microsoft website)

 

Windows 8 tour: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows/how-to

 

Hope this helps a bit.. or maybe discover some cool features you didn't know about,

[fracking4oil]

Only the more items and more information does not make any sense for me. The only times I open my start menu is with my windows key, I will then continue to type in the 3 or 4 first letters of what I need and then press enter. It's a 1 second operation tops when it works well, which it does with the old start menu (as it somehow always guesses what I need). Now you could say that the fact that it fills the entire screen doesn't matter when it's just for a second, but I just find it so horribly distracting. :(

 

 

Windows 8.1 will be replacing Win 8 soon enough...