Macbook 12" Retina Early 2015

[Dabombinable]

 

@LinusTech

 

I have discovered an interesting aspect you should test

 

According to notebookcheck, the macbook did not throttle in Cinebench when running on OSX, but throttled heavily when running Cinebench on WIndows 

 

Source + extract below

 

 

 

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-12-Early-2015-1-1-GHz-Review.143178.0.html

 

"Let’s start with the performance in OS X: The Core M-5Y31 can utilize its Turbo Boost potential pretty well and even executes multithreaded applications with 2.0 GHz (battery and mains). A very impressive aspect is the fact that the clock does not drop below 1.9 GHz, even after multiple runs of Cinebench – many other Core M notebooks suffer from heavy throttling after a couple of minutes because either the temperature is too high or the TDP limitation sets in. The MacBook does not seem to have these limitations: Despite a chip temperature of more than 90 °C and a CPU power consumption of almost 8 Watts, the performance is completely steady. By the way, this is not the first time that Apple ignores the TDP limits from Intel; we noticed a similar behavior in the review of the MacBook Pro 13. The user will be happy about it.

 

The situation is completely different when you use Windows. The clocks are similar to OS X in the first Cinebench run (the score is even slightly higher), but the clocks will drop significantly over time. The clock will start to fluctuate periodically between 1.1 and 2.0 GHz at the start of the second run and the scores are around 30% lower."

 

So.....Apple ignores the thermal limits which were set by Intel for a very specific reason. Typical, that means that with a lower life expectancy Apple is guaranteed to get people asking for a replacement or upgrade more frequently.

[ShadowCaptain]

So.....Apple ignores the thermal limits which were set by Intel for a very specific reason. Typical, that means that with a lower life expectancy Apple is guaranteed to get people asking for a replacement or upgrade more frequently.

 

While I would normally tend to agree I tend to find Apple notebooks generally last extremely well

[Dabombinable]

While I would normally tend to agree I tend to find Apple notebooks generally last extremely well

Only if they don't blatantly ignore safe thermal limits set by those who manufacture the components. Which is what Apple is doing.

[ShadowCaptain]

Only if they don't blatantly ignore safe thermal limits set by those who manufacture the components. Which is what Apple is doing.

 

Unless you have data and figures confirming your speculations that they lead to premature death, its your word against another

 

Are there stories of machines overheating, melting and failing due to this? Sure, there are for almost every laptop on the planet, is it a significantly high enough number?, I highly doubt it

[Dabombinable]

Unless you have data and figures confirming your speculations that they lead to premature death, its your word against another

 

Are there stories of machines overheating, melting and failing due to this? Sure, there are for almost every laptop on the planet, is it a significantly high enough number?, I highly doubt it

Again, the thermal limits are there for a reason-to prevent the CPU's life span from being shortened and damage being done to the surrounding components-and you seriously don't believe that Apple wouldn't shorten the life of a product on the sly so that people buy replacements? They already tried that crap with the Ipod Nano batteries not even lasting 18 months and costing close to the price of a new ipod to replace. And another thing is the way the Macbook is actually cooled. If its used for any length of time it will start getting uncomfortable to use due to its very design.

[ShadowCaptain]

Again, the thermal limits are there for a reason-to prevent the CPU's life span from being shortened and damage being done to the surrounding components-and you seriously don't believe that Apple wouldn't shorten the life of a product on the sly so that people buy replacements? They already tried that crap with the Ipod Nano batteries not even lasting 18 months and costing close to the price of a new ipod to replace. And another thing is the way the Macbook is actually cooled. If its used for any length of time it will start getting uncomfortable to use due to its very design.

 

I understand what thermal limits are, but unless you have evidence that the core M products are prematurely failing, its pure speculation, I imagine their engineers pushed the chips and found they could run them for long periods above Intels stated threshold with no ill effects

 

If somebody tests it, and that is the case, then I will 100% agree with you, but without evidence or fact, I dont base my opinions on assumptions!

 

the macbook really doesn't get hot, I was editing for a few hours on one, and even testing a few games, and it never got too hot to touch, sure it got warm but ive got laptops with much better thermal systems that get hotter to touch

 

I really really doubt apple intentionally created a battery designed not to last, and it wasn't just a case of a poor procurement/ bad design etc, not intentional sabotage , their repair/replacement charges have always been high

There was a point where they recalled old iPods and replace them, I had a normal one, and my sister a Nano that were both replaced with new units, and generally the batteries in Apple products last really well, my brothers 2008 15" macbook pro still has like 4 hours battery life (could be an exception I know) and I have seen countless customers bring in super old iPods/Macbooks all working

 

 

Again, I am not saying you are wrong, but you are not 100% right either, you are speculating on an unknown factor, and assuming 

[Dabombinable]

I understand what thermal limits are, but unless you have evidence that the core M products are prematurely failing, its pure speculation, I imagine their engineers pushed the chips and found they could run them for long periods above Intels stated threshold with no ill effects

 

If somebody tests it, and that is the case, then I will 100% agree with you, but without evidence or fact, I dont base my opinions on assumptions!

 

the macbook really doesn't get hot, I was editing for a few hours on one, and even testing a few games, and it never got too hot to touch, sure it got warm but ive got laptops with much better thermal systems that get hotter to touch

 

I really really doubt apple intentionally created a battery designed not to last, and it wasn't just a case of a poor procurement/ bad design etc, not intentional sabotage , their repair/replacement charges have always been high

There was a point where they recalled old iPods and replace them, I had a normal one, and my sister a Nano that were both replaced with new units, and generally the batteries in Apple products last really well, my brothers 2008 15" macbook pro still has like 4 hours battery life

Where the hell did I say that Core M are prematurely failing? I didn't say that did I. I said that the lifespan would be shortened, by how much depends on how long it runs for at high temps but the lifespan will be shorter than CPU's with adequate cooling.

And your really blind to Apple's dirty tactics to get people to spend more aren't you. Their battery replacement program came out shortly after word got out at just how short the battery life in their devices was-batteries getting hot is a sign of them nearing the end of their life FYI:

http://www.imore.com/apple-announces-replacement-program-ipod-nano-1st-gen

[Dabombinable]

-snip-

Some more:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/brothers-make-apple-see-ipod-light/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neistat_Brothers

 

18 months and boom $255 + postage to replace the battery-and 'you might as well get a new one'

[ShadowCaptain]

Where the hell did I say that Core M are prematurely failing? I didn't say that did I. I said that the lifespan would be shortened, by how much depends on how long it runs for at high temps but the lifespan will be shorter than CPU's with adequate cooling.

And your really blind to Apple's dirty tactics to get people to spend more aren't you. Their battery replacement program came out shortly after word got out at just how short the battery life in their devices was-batteries getting hot is a sign of them nearing the end of their life FYI:

http://www.imore.com/apple-announces-replacement-program-ipod-nano-1st-gen

 

You said a shorter lifespan, which you don't actually know, sure its potentially the case, but without independent tests we don't know the extent of this

 

Apples dirty tactics, the article literally says

"This issue has been traced to a single battery supplier that produced batteries with a manufacturing defect."

and Apple issued a replacement for all effected products

"Apple recommends that you stop using your iPod nano (1st gen) and follow the process noted below to order a replacement unit, free of charge."

 

 

You dont expect a company to do a recall before they realise something is faulty do you? unless hundreds of people report an issue, a company will not issue a recall/replacement

[Dabombinable]

You said a shorter lifespan, which you don't actually know, sure its potentially the case, but without independent tests we don't know the extent of this

 

Apples dirty tactics, the article literally says

"This issue has been traced to a single battery supplier that produced batteries with a manufacturing defect."

and Apple issued a replacement for all effected products

"Apple recommends that you stop using your iPod nano (1st gen) and follow the process noted below to order a replacement unit, free of charge."

 

 

You dont expect a company to do a recall before they realise something is faulty do you? unless hundreds of people report an issue, a company will not issue a recall/replacement

 

Some more:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/brothers-make-apple-see-ipod-light/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neistat_Brothers

 

18 months and boom $255 + postage to replace the battery-and 'you might as well get a new one'

All the people who blatantly ignore Apple's practices-Apple will do anything it can to get more money.

[ShadowCaptain]

All the people who blatantly ignore Apple's practices-Apple will do anything it can to get more money.

 

once the issue was brought to attention apple issued a replacement program, they previously only offered the standard (yes overpriced) replacement service, since the product was out of warranty, people could have gotten this done cheaper elsewhere or paid apples price

 

and once the replacement program was opened it worked, I know because I had 2 iPods replaced under this system

[MrSuperb]

@

 

There are very few pc manufacturers working as close together as Intel and Apple do.

 

chill your balls.

 

 

Isn't the razor edge the same price, the same size and way more powerful, with a touch screen and Windows 8 included?

yeah ... we had enough ridiculous comaprisons already ... I won't comment on them anymore.

I know how professional work looks, and I know you need to transfer data and use a whole bunch of peripherals depending on the kind of work you are doing.

yeah ... blabla ... almost every major company has policies nowadays do not use any external storage other than companies own secured servers.

a whole bunch of peripherals might be necessary for some (or lots of) professionals, yet the point you still fail to see is, that this notebooks is not meant for all professionals, it is not meant to replace all other pcs/macs, but it is meant for a very specific target group you neglect exists. futher dicussion is pretty much pointless ...

[ShadowCaptain]

@

 

There are very few pc manufacturers working as close together as Intel and Apple do.

 

chill your balls.

  

yeah ... we had enough ridiculous comaprisons already ... I won't comment on them anymore.

yeah ... blabla ... almost every major company has policies nowadays do not use any external storage other than companies own secured servers.

a whole bunch of peripherals might be necessary for some (or lots of) professionals, yet the point you still fail to see is, that this notebooks is not meant for all professionals, it is not meant to replace all other pcs/macs, but it is meant for a very specific target group you neglect exists. futher dicussion is pretty much pointless ...

 

THIS ^^

 

Intel and Apple work very closely 

 

The comparisons are ridiculous, the macbook makes most ultrabooks look like a lump, seriously people need to go into a store and see this thing, its quite breathtakingly slim and light, its like carrying a sheet of A4 paper

 

Yeah what defines a "professional", I could use a macbook for all the work I do, I dont need to connect anything to it, and if I wanted to, I could get a USB C Dock to use at the office and home, and just transport the macbook between the two

 

This machine is for people who do NOT want to compromise on size, they need the slimmest lightest machine for none demanding tasks, the macbook excels at this!, The reason Apple still sell the Air and Retina Pro, is because there are people that demand more performance

 

I don't understand the criticism, Apple still sell other good laptops, the cheap light Airs, the powerful retina pros, people act like the macbook is meant to replace every single Apple product, its merely just a new category 

[Dabombinable]

THIS ^^

 

Intel and Apple work very closely 

 

The comparisons are ridiculous, the macbook makes most ultrabooks look like a lump, seriously people need to go into a store and see this thing, its quite breathtakingly slim and light, its like carrying a sheet of A4 paper

 

Yeah what defines a "professional", I could use a macbook for all the work I do, I dont need to connect anything to it, and if I wanted to, I could get a USB C Dock to use at the office and home, and just transport the macbook between the two

 

This machine is for people who do NOT want to compromise on size, they need the slimmest lightest machine for none demanding tasks, the macbook excels at this!, The reason Apple still sell the Air and Retina Pro, is because there are people that demand more performance

 

I don't understand the criticism, Apple still sell other good laptops, the cheap light Airs, the powerful retina pros, people act like the macbook is meant to replace every single Apple product, its merely just a new category 

I ignored him so meh, and as for you. Do want you want - its no skin off my nose if you want to buy an ultrabook with tablet internals that is extremely poor value - even when compared to Apple's slightly heaver, thicker, better performing, cheaper Macbook Air. My point still stands that Apple will do whatever it takes to sell a product (eg. if a review doesn't do exactly what Apple wants, no more review units - which is why you always need to read/listen between the lines. Another example is the iPhone 5C which was made to simply fill the gap until the iPhone 6 came out).

[ShadowCaptain]

I ignored him so meh, and as for you. Do want you want - its no skin off my nose if you want to buy an ultrabook that is extremely poor value - even when compared to Apple's slightly heaver and thicker Macbook. My point still stands that Apple will do whatever it takes to sell a product (eg. if a review doesn't do exactly what Apple wants, no more review units - which is why you always need to read/listen between the lines. Another example is the iPhone 5C which was made to simply fill the gap until the iPhone 6 came out).

 

I genuinely like the Macbook, its price is irrelevant to me, its design and function are not, it would be perfect to tote around in my messenger bag with my Sony A7 camera, and I don't even have an issue with the 5c, my sister has a blue one, I really like the design, its fun, and really well made, and quite a striking look, I am actually happy Apple had the balls to make one, I love how the plastic feels, even though I chose to wait for the iPhone 6 myself

 

The thing is you have your own opinions and agenda, and I respect that, but you cannot expect everyone else to see it you way, just as I dont expect you to see it my way, but if you can try put yourself in another shoes its a big step

 

What suits you, may not suit me, your budget and needs are different to mine, and thats cool, that's why other computers, phones and mp3 players exist

[Dabombinable]

I genuinely like the Macbook, its price is irrelevant to me, its design and function are not, it would be perfect to tote around in my messenger bag with my Sony A7 camera, and I don't even have an issue with the 5c, my sister has a blue one, I really like the design, its fun, and really well made, and quite a striking look, I am actually happy Apple had the balls to make one, I love how the plastic feels, even though I chose to wait for the iPhone 6 myself

 

The thing is you have your own opinions and agenda, and I respect that, but you cannot expect everyone else to see it you way, just as I dont expect you to see it my way, but if you can try put yourself in another shoes its a big step

 

What suits you, may not suit me, your budget and needs are different to mine, and thats cool, that's why other computers, phones and mp3 players exist

Seriously, unless your camera has wifi or bluetooth how is the Macbook going to be of any use to you without a USB C cable for the camera or a USB hub which will add bulk? And BTW, the 5C is an extension of the options that should have been available from day 1.

Edit: The Macbook Air also has an SD card slot - which the Macbook doesn't have. Quite simply if your using it in conjunction with your camera the Air is the better choice - its even got the same battery life as the Macbook, and the style isn't too different at all.

[ShadowCaptain]

Seriously, unless your camera has wifi or bluetooth how is the Macbook going to be of any use to you without a USB C cable for the camera or a USB hub which will add bulk? And BTW, the 5C is an extension of the options that should have been available from day 1.

 

It has Wifi, also this adapter is only £6.99 ($10 US)

 

yeah it could have been there from the start I agree, but its still a nice product and it holds up to this day just fine, I still use my old iPhone 5 as a spare and it runs great

[Dabombinable]

It has Wifi, also this adapter is only £6.99 ($10 US)

 

yeah it could have been there from the start I agree, but its still a nice product and it holds up to this day just fine, I still use my old iPhone 5 as a spare and it runs great

You'd still be buying an ultrabook that isn't as good as the cheaper one of the same quality made by Apple as well. As I said though, its no skin off my nose.

[ShadowCaptain]

You'd still be buying an ultrabook that isn't as good as the cheaper one of the same quality made by Apple as well. As I said though, its no skin off my nose.

 

Its smaller and lighter meaning I can fit it in a smaller bag and not notice the weight with my mirrorless camera, and has a much better display, which is important when photo processing, its a bright very high res, and is quite usable outdoors, so I could even shoot tethered with it, and its powerful enough to do some editing on the train/plane, heck evne a bit of video work is doable

 

Personally my next laptop is most likely going to be an MSI Ghost or similar gaming laptop, but the Macbook is really high on the list as a contender for my photography needs

[linuxfan66]

Again, the thermal limits are there for a reason-to prevent the CPU's life span from being shortened and damage being done to the surrounding components-and you seriously don't believe that Apple wouldn't shorten the life of a product on the sly so that people buy replacements? They already tried that crap with the Ipod Nano batteries not even lasting 18 months and costing close to the price of a new ipod to replace. And another thing is the way the Macbook is actually cooled. If its used for any length of time it will start getting uncomfortable to use due to its very design.

You do know that laptops rated to run safely at 120 Celsius rather than 80 Celsius like the desktop chips. So a laptop running at 110 degrees should be fine let alone 90 to 100. On that why are laptops with 120 CPUs set with thermal cut offs at 100?

[ShadowCaptain]

You do know that laptops rated to run safely at 120 Celsius rather than 80 Celsius like the desktop chips. So a laptop running at 110 degrees should be fine let alone 90 to 100. On that why are laptops with 120 CPUs set with thermal cut offs at 100?

 

@

 

The Intel Core M on Intels website is 95 degrees just FYI, but yeah they are generally rated for high temperatures

 

http://ark.intel.com/products/83612/Intel-Core-M-5Y70-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-2_60-GHz

[linuxfan66]

@

 

The Intel Core M on Intels website is 95 degrees just FYI, but yeah they are generally rated for high temperatures

 

http://ark.intel.com/products/83612/Intel-Core-M-5Y70-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-2_60-GHz

wow thats low for a mobile processor...

[Dabombinable]

You do know that laptops rated to run safely at 120 Celsius rather than 80 Celsius like the desktop chips. So a laptop running at 110 degrees should be fine let alone 90 to 100. On that why are laptops with 120 CPUs set with thermal cut offs at 100?

What's safe for the laptop CPU isn't what's safe for the other components-and since I had my Asus A3H running its Pentium M 770 (upgrade from Celeron M380-which before I removed it hit 80^oC even after I cleaned the heatsink and used arctic silver) at around 100^oC with no problems. I've experienced their short term survive ability at high temps. When it comes to long term however-the thermal throttling is still there to protect the CPU.

[ShadowCaptain]

What's safe for the laptop CPU isn't what's safe for the other components-and since I had my Asus A3H running its Pentium M 770 (upgrade from Celeron M380-which before I removed it hit 80^oC even after I cleaned the heatsink and used arctic silver) at around 100^oC with no problems. I've experienced their short term survive ability at high temps. When it comes to long term however-the thermal throttling is still there to protect the CPU.

 

My Alienware m18x gets to about a billion degrees, as does my W110er that thing gets HOT AS FUCK to touch

 

Never missed a beat in all these years

[MrSuperb]

My Alienware m18x gets to about a billion degrees, as does my W110er that thing gets HOT AS FUCK to touch

 

Never missed a beat in all these years

are you still arguing with that 14 year old enigneer ?