Sound card question relating the Sennheiser HD 650

[Nomy]

Hey audiophiles, I'm at a total loss here so I hope you guys could help me out.

 

I am interested in buying the Sennheiser HD 650, I've heard nothing but good things about it.

For your information, it is for the casual listening to music, watching series/movies and gaming. So by no means on a professional level.

 

Now the question is, will I be able to use this headset to it's full potential with my mobo's onboard audio or will I have to invest in a separate sound card?

My mobo being a Z87 Asus Maximus VI Hero and it's specs mentioning  ROG SupremeFX Audio 8-Channel High Definition Audio.

 

 

Thank you in advance,

Nomy

 

[WereCat]

Onboard audio is just good enough. You wont need sound card.

[Samfisher]

Onboard audio is just good enough. You wont need sound card.

 

Onboard audio is 32 ohms, the HD 650's are 300.  It will NOT drive that shit properly.

 

 

@Nomy

 

The Asus site does not specify whether it comes with an amp, although the  Maximus VI Formula does, supporting a 600 ohm amp.

[WereCat]

Onboard audio is 32 ohms, the HD 650's are 300.  It will NOT drive that shit properly.

 

 

@Nomy

 

The Asus site does not specify whether it comes with an amp, although the  Maximus VI Formula does, supporting a 600 ohm amp.

What? Where did you found that? I never heard of any motherboard that would have only 32ohm ampedance.. I cant even find that in the ASUS website.

[creatip123]

Onboard audio is 32 ohms, the HD 650's are 300.  It will NOT drive that shit properly.

 

 

@Nomy

 

The Asus site does not specify whether it comes with an amp, although the  Maximus VI Formula does, supporting a 600 ohm amp.

 

Did you know that a 50 ohms HE-6 needs 447mW, 17.88x the power needed by a 250 ohms DT990, 25mW, to get to the same 110dB loudness?

 

Here's a light reading: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/290749-the-impedance-ballad-image-heavy/=> you can see the miracle where a 64 ohms headphone is friggin louder than a 35 ohms headphone, 20dB louder to be exact. 

 

Oh, and please, do some research first, before giving a misguided answer. People who ask questions are usually genuinely lack of knowledge and expecting a real answer, not a misleading one. 

[Samfisher]

Did you know that a 50 ohms HE-6 needs 447mW, 17.88x the power needed by a 250 ohms DT990, 25mW, to get to the same 110dB loudness?

 

Here's a light reading: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/290749-the-impedance-ballad-image-heavy/=> you can see the miracle where a 64 ohms headphone is friggin louder than a 35 ohms headphone, 20dB louder to be exact. 

 

Oh, and please, do some research first, before giving a misguided answer. People who ask questions are usually genuinely lack of knowledge and expecting a real answer, not a misleading one. 

 

 

What has this got to do with anything I posted?

[Diederik_Gr]

What has this got to do with anything I posted?

That the ohm rating can not be used to judge how a sound card will handle the headphones. My 250 ohms DT990's also run fine on a B85M-G's integrated audio chip, and can get loud enough to the point where it's not comfortable listening to.

[creatip123]

What has this got to do with anything I posted?

 

This:

 

Onboard audio is 32 ohms, the HD 650's are 300.  It will NOT drive that shit properly.

 

 

@Nomy

 

The Asus site does not specify whether it comes with an amp, although the  Maximus VI Formula does, supporting a 600 ohm amp.

 

Ohms got next to nothing to do with can a headphone or a speaker be driven properly or not. It's derailed so much from the fact, to say 'this one can't be driven properly by onboard because it's 300 ohms'. Ohms are resistance value in DC or impedance value in AC, and that's that. Those 'can drive to X ohms' sound card advertising is big BS. I'd be jawdropped shocked if those 'can drive to 600 ohms' sound card can drive the 50 ohms HE-6 properly.

[BoredErica]

Onboard audio is 32 ohms, the HD 650's are 300.  It will NOT drive that shit properly.

 

 

@Nomy

 

The Asus site does not specify whether it comes with an amp, although the  Maximus VI Formula does, supporting a 600 ohm amp.

[Nomy]

@WereCat @Samfisher @creatip123 @Diederik_Gr @Dark_wizzie

 

I appreciate all your inputs but you guys are confusing me even more.

You contradict each other and are throwing around numbers and terms which to me sound like I'd need a PhD :unsure:

 

So am I correct to understand that the headset which I've set my eyes on is a good pick in combination with my onboard soundcard and it should make listening to music more enjoyable for me?

[A.D.A.M]

@WereCat @Samfisher @creatip123 @Diederik_Gr @Dark_wizzie

I appreciate all your inputs but you guys are confusing me even more.

You contradict each other and are throwing around numbers and terms which to me sound like I'd need a PhD :unsure:

So am I correct to understand that the headset which I've set my eyes on is a good pick in combination with my onboard soundcard and it should make listening to music more enjoyable for me?

the headphone will work fine on on board audio from the motherboard, basically. I think someone on this forum even runs the same headphones off an ipad (don't quote me on that though). Omhs basically tell you nothing in terms of whether this can run that. I'd listen to creatip here,he knows what he's talking about, even helped me a bit (at least my memory says he did)

[BoredErica]

 

@WereCat @Samfisher @creatip123 @Diederik_Gr @Dark_wizzie

 

I appreciate all your inputs but you guys are confusing me even more.

You contradict each other and are throwing around numbers and terms which to me sound like I'd need a PhD  :unsure:

 

So am I correct to understand that the headset which I've set my eyes on is a good pick in combination with my onboard soundcard and it should make listening to music more enjoyable for me?

Samfischer is a random that has no idea what he's talking about. Creatip and I have been around to see these things happen over and over and over. You don't need an external amp/dac. But if you insist, a near perfect amp can be bought for like $80-130. There is a link in my siggy that can explain how impedance plays into the headphone driving game, but unless you want to trade a few confusing posts for one super long (and probably confusing) post, you'll just have to trust that we're right.

Let's start by asking Mr. Samfischer here, what impedance actually IS, how a headphone's electrical needs are met and how one goes about calculating it.

@Samfisher

[A.D.A.M]

Well I'm not much of an expert (willing to learn), but from what I remember it's sensitivity you look at right, the voltage to loudness relationship yeah? Or maybe that's just one part of the equation

[creatip123]

@WereCat @Samfisher @creatip123 @Diederik_Gr @Dark_wizzie

 

I appreciate all your inputs but you guys are confusing me even more.

You contradict each other and are throwing around numbers and terms which to me sound like I'd need a PhD :unsure:

 

So am I correct to understand that the headset which I've set my eyes on is a good pick in combination with my onboard soundcard and it should make listening to music more enjoyable for me?

 

Yea, I thought we'd separate facts from fiction first, but forgot to get back to your original question.

 

Well, first, HD650 isn't a headset, because it doesn't have an integrated mic. It's a headphone, and a good one at that.

 

But, HD650 got somewhat 'specialized' sound signature, or color, if you will. It's not for everybody, some might love it to death, others might not. I'm one of the latter. I can say it's good, but not my cup of tea. Best thing is to try before you buy. If you're buying online, try to find a site where you can return if you don't like it, like amazon.

 

As for the onboard, it's case per case. There's a big chance your onboard will be fine, but there's also a chance that it will fall behind. Best is to get the headphone first, and take a listen. If it doesn't get loud enough, clipping left and right, distorting, etc, then consider getting an amp, or dac/amp. One thing for sure, it's not too late to get the headphone first, and get the extra later, if needed. Even if the onboard falls behind, it won't do any damage at all. 

[BoredErica]

 

Yea, I thought we'd separate facts from fiction first, but forgot to get back to your original question.

 

Well, first, HD650 isn't a headset, because it doesn't have an integrated mic. It's a headphone, and a good one at that.

 

But, HD650 got somewhat 'specialized' sound signature, or color, if you will. It's not for everybody, some might love it to death, others might not. I'm one of the latter. I can say it's good, but not my cup of tea. Best thing is to try before you buy. If you're buying online, try to find a site where you can return if you don't like it, like amazon.

 

As for the onboard, it's case per case. There's a big chance your onboard will be fine, but there's also a chance that it will fall behind. Best is to get the headphone first, and take a listen. If it doesn't get loud enough, clipping left and right, distorting, etc, then consider getting an amp, or dac/amp. One thing for sure, it's not too late to get the headphone first, and get the extra later, if needed. Even if the onboard falls behind, it won't do any damage at all. 

As Creatip said there's nothing forcing you to buy your amp at the same time as your headphone. It is unlikely but conceivable that there would be problems with your audio. Half the time it's not even from power, it's stuff like hissing when nothing is being played which isn't related to lack of power/voltage. And... swapping to a mobo that "supports 600 ohms of impedance" isn't necessarily going to help either. Also as I mentioned earlier, even if there is a problem which I doubt there will, getting a near perfect amp costs less than $150.

 

If you actually end up hearing problems like... hissing... it's not loud enough for you... then do report back. But if you're back because of 'lack of bass' or something, then the actual problem is that you're not a fan of the new headphone's sound signature. Shearme loves his HD650s, Creatip, not so much.

 

Well I'm not much of an expert (willing to learn), but form what I remember it's sensitivity you look at right, the voltage to loudness relationship yeah? Or maybe that's just one part of the equation

Yes, that is the biggest factor. The HD650s are pretty sensitive headphones.   There are others, but typically the effect is so small it's not worth getting into it for normal consumers... unless they're just interested in the topic.

 

[Nomy]

Yea, I thought we'd separate facts from fiction first, but forgot to get back to your original question.

 

Well, first, HD650 isn't a headset, because it doesn't have an integrated mic. It's a headphone, and a good one at that.

 

But, HD650 got somewhat 'specialized' sound signature, or color, if you will. It's not for everybody, some might love it to death, others might not. I'm one of the latter. I can say it's good, but not my cup of tea. Best thing is to try before you buy. If you're buying online, try to find a site where you can return if you don't like it, like amazon.

 

As for the onboard, it's case per case. There's a big chance your onboard will be fine, but there's also a chance that it will fall behind. Best is to get the headphone first, and take a listen. If it doesn't get loud enough, clipping left and right, distorting, etc, then consider getting an amp, or dac/amp. One thing for sure, it's not too late to get the headphone first, and get the extra later, if needed. Even if the onboard falls behind, it won't do any damage at all. 

Thank you and everyone else for the help and listing my possible future options. I'll just go ahead with the buy then and see how much I like them just as you suggested.

Looking forward to get this headphone on my ears

[A.D.A.M]

Yes, that is the biggest factor. The HD650s are pretty sensitive headphones.   There are others, but typically the effect is so small it's not worth getting into it for normal consumers... unless they're just interested in the topic.

i have a few sites bookmarked from (heartbleed's(?) blog post thing. Now if only I have the time to go read the bloody thing.

[BoredErica]

i have a few sites bookmarked from (heartbleed's(?) blog post thing. Now if only I have the time to go read the bloody thing.

Heartbleed? Are you talking about SSL's threads by any chance? My siggy has similar info as well, and Nwavguy's blog has even more information. Hydrogenaudio or Headfi's Sound Science sections if you want very technical discussions.

[A.D.A.M]

Heartbleed? Are you talking about SSL's threads by any chance? My siggy has similar info as well, and Nwavguy's blog has even more information. Hydrogenaudio or Headfi's Sound Science sections if you want very technical discussions.

yes SSL haha I forgot his username and the only thing I could remember was his profile picture

[TW1ST3R]

@creatip123 is spot on, if you're set on the headphones get them and try them with the onboard audio.  If you feel you need the extra power, you can invest in a usb DAC/Amp combo unit afterwards anyway.

 

I'm currently running my HD600s off my motherboard's onboard (Asus Z97-A) and it sounds great.  I may grab an O2/ODAC combo later, but from my time with it, even only with the onboard I'm experiencing far greater sound quality than my previous no-name headphones and they are a bit better than my old Panasonic stereo system.  Basically if the SupremeFX audio on your Maximus VI is on a similar level to the Crystal Sound 2 audio on my Z97-A it should be more than adequate to drive the headphones.  I'm no expert on motherboard audio, so take everything I've said with a grain of salt, I'm just speaking from my experience with two similar products.

[xtroria]

Thanks a lot @creatip123, you took the chance of me being able to troll a garbage in the community

[BoredErica]

Thanks a lot @creatip123, you took the chance of me being able to troll a garbage in the community

Nothing's stopping you, lol.

[SSL]

Onboard audio is 32 ohms, the HD 650's are 300.  It will NOT drive that shit properly.

 

The Asus site does not specify whether it comes with an amp, although the  Maximus VI Formula does, supporting a 600 ohm amp.

 

Seems like you're the only person in this thread of know-it-all fuckwits that knows what they're talking about. Since I'm an audio noob, can you explain what a "600 ohm amp" is? I think I've heard that amps put out ohms but I'm not sure what that means.