AMD Wants To Stop Being Known As The “Cheaper Solution”

[MageTank]

omg people here thinking single core performance is the only thing that matters

 

Where exactly did anyone say single core performance was the only thing that matters? They were pointing out scenario's in which single core performance might be more important (which is very true in games such as MMO's). Considering the majority of games are seldom programmed to utilize more than 4 cores anyways, i would not use multi threaded applications as a defining argument for an FX. Yes, it is good at heavy compression and rendering situations, but it falls short elsewhere. This is why AMD is trying to fix it, and why they are promising such a steep boost in performance. They know they made a mistake, and they are promising to fix that.

 

I only hope that their promise holds true this time, they really need it to.

[spartaman64]

Where exactly did anyone say single core performance was the only thing that matters? They were pointing out scenario's in which single core performance might be more important (which is very true in games such as MMO's). Considering the majority of games are seldom programmed to utilize more than 4 cores anyways, i would not use multi threaded applications as a defining argument for an FX. Yes, it is good at heavy compression and rendering situations, but it falls short elsewhere. This is why AMD is trying to fix it, and why they are promising such a steep boost in performance. They know they made a mistake, and they are promising to fix that.

 

I only hope that their promise holds true this time, they really need it to.

ltt where gaming is the only application for cpus. i understand that amd cpus are a bad choice for gaming but i dont understand why people say that amd cpus are trash for everything

[Comrade_Dave]

AMD, give me something like x99 and I will, probably, go red.

[patrickjp93]

omg people here thinking single core performance is the only thing that matters

Until the era arrives where software is designed and developed to scale for multi-core platforms, single-core performance will be the dominating factor, especially since Intel, with its process advantage, has no problem just throwing more cores at the problem as needed.

[MageTank]

ltt where gaming is the only application for cpus. i understand that amd cpus are a bad choice for gaming but i dont understand why people say that amd cpus are trash for everything

 

This is not answering my question. I asked for a specific case in this thread. You came here, made a post as if the people in this thread are making unfounded insults against AMD CPU's. The honest truth is that the information being spread is true, and AMD themselves are fully aware of it.

 

Your post did nothing to counter any claims being made. It also has nothing to do with the topic at hand. If you want to know more as to why single threaded performance is important, then i would recommend reading up on Amdahl's Law.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law

[zappian]

Until the era arrives where software is designed and developed to scale for multi-core platforms, single-core performance will be the dominating factor, especially since Intel, with its process advantage, has no problem just throwing more cores at the problem as needed.

 

The only thing AMD has is cheap multi threaded performance.

Intel has up to 16 cores / 32 threads Xeon.

They dominate every single market.

http://hothardware.com/reviews/Intel-18Core-Xeon-E5-V3-Debuts-HaswellE-Archicture-and-DDR4

[patrickjp93]

The only thing AMD has is cheap multi threaded performance.

Intel has up to 16 cores / 32 threads Xeon.

They dominate every single market.

http://hothardware.com/reviews/Intel-18Core-Xeon-E5-V3-Debuts-HaswellE-Archicture-and-DDR4

18/36 now.

 

And not every market. Cell phones, embedded systems, routers, and GPUs are still squarely out of Intel's hands. Tablets are still in contention as well.

[The Gaige]

The only way they can do it is if they they partner with Nvidia to create a total CPU/GPU system! 

[Opcode]

Until the era arrives where software is designed and developed to scale for multi-core platforms, single-core performance will be the dominating factor, especially since Intel, with its process advantage, has no problem just throwing more cores at the problem as needed.

Welcome to the 21'st century where nearly no software is single threaded. Hell even my tray tool has dedicated worker threads for keeping things in order.

 

Everyone is either pushing towards or are already on FinFET right now. Samsung has overtaken TSMC and will have 10nm available later 2016.

• UMC - Skipped 20nm Planar
• GloFo - Skipped 20nm Planar
• SMIC - Skipped 20nm Planar
• Samsung - 20nm Planar (Not Commercially Available)

The only pure play foundry with a 20nm process is TSMC. I don't see Intel having any advantage when they will likely be on the same nodes around the same time.

[Vivilacqua1]

I know that this topic is about cpu's but... Amd is losing profits by waiting so long to release their 300 series. So many people wanted a 300 card,(like me) but aren't going to wait that long. So, people are getting 970's and 980's, which means amd is not getting those $$$.

 

gg amd. g.g

 

 

That's my opinion/fact

[Khvarrioiren]

I know that this topic is about cpu's but... Amd is losing profits by waiting so long to release their 300 series. So many people wanted a 300 card,(like me) but aren't going to wait that long. So, people are getting 970's and 980's, which means amd is not getting those $$$.

 

gg amd. g.g

 

 

That's my opinion/fact

 

Can't wait a month?

[lightningterror]

No they can't. They were worse than Sandy Bridge when they launched and have only gotten worse since then. Any multi-threaded app you can build to take advantage of all 8 BD/PD cores I can refactor to go faster on an I7. The only applications I can think of which AMD remotely stays competitive in are CAD and some professional apps, and frankly by the time you get to those you should be working with E5 Xeons anyway, and 6 Xeon cores post-SandyBridge, which can be acquired for the same price as a 5820K will not simply compete with, but wipe the floor with an FX 9590.

 

AMD has not been remotely competitive since the Athlon 64/Pentium days, and really since Core 2 Quad they were slipping. Now it's not even a contest. Maybe when Zen rolls out with its theoretical 5% performance advantage over Haswell we can see the resurgence of AMD, but I'm a realist, and the probability simply isn't in AMD's favor with or without Keller, Koduri, and Papermaster.

 

It's like saying the 390x will have 5% performance advantage over a 780

 

Broadwell and Skylake are around the corner and intel is probably preparing for Cannonlake.

 

But i hope AMD pulls this one off. I want to see some competition. And it's a hell of a lot better for us the consumers.

 

 

Please amd more ipc this time and not ...

 

[Dabombinable]

 

It's like saying the 390x will have 5% performance advantage over a 780

 

Broadwell and Skylake are around the corner and intel is probably preparing for Cannonlake.

 

But i hope AMD pulls this one off. I want to see some competition. And it's a hell of a lot better for us the consumers.

 

 

Please amd more ipc this time and not ...

 

 

Its one of the really big 'if's to come from AMD, but to fanboys out there it would give them something to drool over and an actual gaming CPU. I myself wouldn't by one as 5% over my i5 4440 wouldn't be enough. 20-25% is what I'd look at, that and an unlocked CPU.

[patrickjp93]

Welcome to the 21'st century where nearly no software is single threaded. Hell even my tray tool has dedicated worker threads for keeping things in order.

Everyone is either pushing towards or are already on FinFET right now. Samsung has overtaken TSMC and will have 10nm available later 2016.

• UMC - Skipped 20nm Planar
• GloFo - Skipped 20nm Planar
• SMIC - Skipped 20nm Planar
• Samsung - 20nm Planar (Not Commercially Available)

The only pure play foundry with a 20nm process is TSMC. I don't see Intel having any advantage when they will likely be on the same nodes around the same time.

1) those threads don't run simultaneously. They run basically in a circle one after another to insulate the governing program from a crash.

Most software is still single-threaded or is not built to scale and stays at 2 threads.

We have no shipping parts from Samsung yet, and we have no word on yields. Qualcomm and Apple are quiet, but they were quiet before they jumped from TSMC too.

No one is anywhere close to catching Intel in process tech. Semi wiki and other forums of industry experts have run the numbers, and Samsung's 14nmFF and TSMC's 16nm FF process is basically 20nm in size but with FF to mitigate leakage current.

Samsung's also full of crap for 10nm predictions. If IBM could only just keep in step with Intel, Samsung has not a chance in Hell. It has neither the expertise nor the financial and production resources to do so. The foundry part of Samsung's conglomerate is leveraged to the hilt in loans. It can't afford ASML's prices right now to make the jump towards 10nm.

[patrickjp93]

The only way they can do it is if they they partner with Nvidia to create a total CPU/GPU system!

You underestimate Intel. If Nvidia loses its GPGPU business in the HPC market (Intel Xeon Phi eating them alive, with the situation to only get worse in Knight's Landing being out 2 quarters before Pascal) then they'll no longer be in competition, leaving Nvidia wide open to a buyout, and most of the Nvidia investors would happily hand over the reigns to Intel which provides much better dividends and margins.

[lightningterror]

Its one of the really big 'if's to come from AMD, but to fanboys out there it would give them something to drool over and an actual gaming CPU. I myself wouldn't by one as 5% over my i5 4440 wouldn't be enough. 20-25% is what I'd look at, that and an unlocked CPU.

I'm not sure it's official but i read an article saying that Cannonlake will offer 20-30% improvement over Haswell.

[The Gaige]

You underestimate Intel. If Nvidia loses its GPGPU business in the HPC market (Intel Xeon Phi eating them alive, with the situation to only get worse in Knight's Landing being out 2 quarters before Pascal) then they'll no longer be in competition, leaning Nvidia wide open to a buyout, and most of the Nvidia investors would happily hand over the reigns to Intel which provides much better dividends and margins.

What are you talking about bro cause I'm about Nvidia joining forces with AMD to produce a better CPU & GPU?!?! 

[Opcode]

1) those threads don't run simultaneously. They run basically in a circle one after another to insulate the governing program from a crash.

Most software is still single-threaded or is not built to scale and stays at 2 threads.

We have no shipping parts from Samsung yet, and we have no word on yields. Qualcomm and Apple are quiet, but they were quiet before they jumped from TSMC too.

No one is anywhere close to catching Intel in process tech. Semi wiki and other forums of industry experts have run the numbers, and Samsung's 14nmFF and TSMC's 16nm FF process is basically 20nm in size but with FF to mitigate leakage current.

Samsung's also full of crap for 10nm predictions. If IBM could only just keep in step with Intel, Samsung has not a chance in Hell. It has neither the expertise nor the financial and production resources to do so. The foundry part of Samsung's conglomerate is leveraged to the hilt in loans. It can't afford ASML's prices right now to make the jump towards 10nm.

Nope, depending on the software most run simultaneously otherwise you'd kill whatever performance gains you were looking to make with threading as the call stack would still be serialized. The point of threading is to expand a workload beyond a single core and have them work in conjunction with each other. You can create a mutex or semaphore to protect resources during execution to avoid extremely skewed results.

 

All software has a main loop although most software branches out to worker threads these days as a single thread application would lock up immediately during a task and be limited to only a single task at any given time. You can run multiple tasks on a single thread at the same time (back to back) but it would be exceedingly slower.

 

We don't but at least someone has announced 10nm other than Intel. Meaning Intel won't be the only one manufacturing chips (Cannonlake) on 10nm at that time.

 

Intel's manufacturing node might be a little smaller "oOoOo..." it doesn't matter when AMD is making twice as dense chips on a higher node (Carrizo has nearly 2x as many transistors per mm² than Haswell).

 

You're underestimating Samsung then as there's good reason why a lot of big players have moved to their facilities (and why they have a high capex this year). Intel isn't the only one with money to throw at the problem. With most being on FinFET by that time it's difficult to see only Intel on 10nm (which is rumored to be delayed already).

[patrickjp93]

What are you talking about bro cause I'm about Nvidia joining forces with AMD to produce a better CPU & GPU?!?!

AMD and Nvidia wouldn't join up. That ship sailed when Ruiz couldn't swallow his pride and let Jen Hsun Huang be CEO of the merged AMD/Nvidia Ruiz originally planned and preferred. Instead AMD bought ATI with a huge loan which Intel backed 60% of to JP Morgan. Intel and Nvidia are much more likely to team up, but they have to get out of competition first before the FTC can allow it.

[patrickjp93]

Nope, depending on the software most run simultaneously otherwise you'd kill whatever performance gains you were looking to make with threading as the call stack would still be serialized. The point of threading is to expand a workload beyond a single core and have them work in conjunction with each other. You can create a mutex or semaphore to protect resources during execution to avoid extremely skewed results.

All software has a main loop although most software branches out to worker threads these days as a single thread application would lock up immediately during a task and be limited to only a single task at any given time. You can run multiple tasks on a single thread at the same time (back to back) but it would be exceedingly slower.

We don't but at least someone has announced 10nm other than Intel. Meaning Intel won't be the only one manufacturing chips (Cannonlake) on 10nm at that time.

Intel's manufacturing node might be a little smaller "oOoOo..." it doesn't matter when AMD is making twice as dense chips on a higher node (Carrizo has nearly 2x as many transistors per mm² than Haswell).

You're underestimating Samsung then as there's good reason why a lot of big players have moved to their facilities (and why they have a high capex this year). Intel isn't the only one with money to throw at the problem. With most being on FinFET by that time it's difficult to see only Intel on 10nm (which is rumored to be delayed already).

Rumors mean nothing. Furthermore, everyone jumped ship to Samsung because TSMC had proved failing, whereas Intel's fabs are too expensive for mainstream chip makers. Who does that leave with low power processes? Glo Fo and Samsung, and Glo Fo is saturated by Carrizo and Altera for the time being. Samsung got the customers by default.

Also, their 10nm is roughly equivalent to Intel's 14nm. Again, Samsung is blowing smoke when it has nothing.

And yet Intel's chips own the performance and perf/watt crowns (with Carrizo this may change on perf/watt). Intel is slowing itself down for AMD's sake. The last thing Intel wants is much more financially equipped competition, and to avoid that means getting AMD as much money (legally) as needed to keep up with its debts which come due in just over three years, debts which are still piling up might I add. Do you really think Intel couldn't figure out an equivalent if not superior HDL scheme if it wanted in a single year? Intel plays on a much higher level than AMD. You seem to forget that every time we get into this debate of analysis.

Also, those threads you mention tend to be put to sleep until woken by their managing process. They do not run simultaneously, and thanks to SMT they can interweave on the core without much of a hitch, resulting in next to no loss of performance for doing so.

[Vivilacqua1]

Can't wait a month?

this was when Nvidia first released their 900 series cards, and everyone thought that AMD would do soon as well, turned out, they waited for awhile...

[Khvarrioiren]

this was when Nvidia first released their 900 series cards, and everyone thought that AMD would do soon as well, turned out, they waited for awhile...

 

Ah, fair enough.

[mr moose]

AMD and Nvidia wouldn't join up. That ship sailed when Ruiz couldn't swallow his pride and let Jen Hsun Huang be CEO of the merged AMD/Nvidia Ruiz originally planned and preferred. Instead AMD bought ATI with a huge loan which Intel backed 60% of to JP Morgan. Intel and Nvidia are much more likely to team up, but they have to get out of competition first before the FTC can allow it.

 

It's a shame, if Nvidia and AMD merged there'd be 3 or 4 people on these forums who would implode because they'd have to simultaneously love and hate the same company.  (whoops, did I say that aloud? )

 

I wonder what every happened to the original thread topic? 

[Dabombinable]

It's a shame, if Nvidia and AMD merged there'd be 3 or 4 people on these forums who would implode because they'd have to simultaneously love and hate the same company.  (whoops, did I say that aloud? )

 

I wonder what every happened to the original thread topic? 

Long story short, AMD has a really long way to go.

[Opcode]

It's a shame, if Nvidia and AMD merged there'd be 3 or 4 people on these forums who would implode because they'd have to simultaneously love and hate the same company.  (whoops, did I say that aloud? )

 

I wonder what every happened to the original thread topic? 

I think that would classify as everyone. With AMD and Nvidia merged we'd have a single GPU monopoly. It would turn into "No? You don't want GTR 980X for $1000? Okay go play games on your potato and let us know how that works out for you".