Skyrim paid mods are gone

[Sharif]

This was quick  

[pjm0925]

Terrible implementation was terrible, glad it's gone.  I'm happy to pay something to mod authors, I donate to some Patreons already.  The way Valve did this was just wrong, I hope they learn from the experience.

[NateGSR117]

Now I can go back and get some mods I couldn't before. Thanks.

[ThomasD]

Wow, it certainly appears the powers that be at Valve really did not do their homework.

 

Frankly, I had not thought that the organization was run by idiots.

 

They sure fooled me.

 

What a fiasco, all pain, no gain.

[ShadowCaptain]

Do people actually think paid mods is a good idea in ANY capacity?

 

You highlight all the issues, but at the end of the day, the capacity in which I think paid mods are a good idea, is that people deserve compensation for their work

 

I just think that mods are to complicated to be treated as a traditional purchase, this implementation was extremely flawed and short sighted

[GeTecknics]

i wouldnt have minded the system if it was like this

split profits:Modder 60%, Beth 30%, Valve 10%

Add a trial period: atleast 2-4hrs 

Only allow new mods completely different ones or new versions while still keeping the old versions free

Refund period of atleast 4 days but it would be nice if it was 7, if that didnt work maybe you lose 25% of the refund for every day so they get to keep some money if they decide to buy it, beat it, return it

Dont be rude about it when people question you (VALVE)

And offer some kinda of customer service for Christ's sake atleast pretend to care i mean come one EA has amazing customer support and offers refunds i mean come on your gonna let EA beat you at something.

 

No offense to EA this doesnt have much to do with them its just that they do have really good customer service and i feel the need to bring it up whenever valve makes a bad customer service move

[typographie]

Wow, it certainly appears the powers that be at Valve really did not do their homework.

 

Frankly, I had not thought that the organization was run by idiots.

 

They sure fooled me.

 

What a fiasco, all pain, no gain.

 

To be fair, they did voluntarily remove the system when they saw the community's reaction. I certainly cannot see an EA, Ubisoft, Activision et. al. doing the same unless it was a threat to their bottom line, and as much as I'd like to believe everyone would vote with their feet, no one was realistically going to stop using Steam over this. This looked really bad for Valve, but seeing them actually do something about it when they probably didn't have to does restore some faith for me that they were well-intentioned.

 

This is undeniably good news, but bittersweet to me. The idea of modders making money from their mods, merit permitting, was a good idea. But this should have been a pay-what-you-want system supported by the Workshop with Valve/Bethesda taking a cut that is in accordance with the amount of QA, support, and effort they're actually putting in. If Valve is doing nothing more than host the files, their cut of the proceeds should reflect that.

[AxelRantila]

I know that quite a few Starbound devs had been quite outspoken on Twitter about how the situation was handeled. And I'm included to agree with that. And especially with this (even though it is a bit on the... pessimistic side).

 

Personally I would not mind paying for good mods. Heck, I would gladly  pay for the Europa Universalis 4 Superstates Mod

[ThomasD]

...The idea of modders making money from their mods, merit permitting, was a good idea. But this should have been a pay-what-you-want system supported by the Workshop with Valve/Bethesda taking a cut that is in accordance with the amount of QA, support, and effort they're actually putting in. If Valve is doing nothing more than host the files, their cut of the proceeds should reflect that.

Getting paid for producing quality mods was a good idea.

 

As for "the effort they are actually putting in" the biggest single effort was creating the development tools that allowed easy modding in the first place (absent that kit very few people have the chops to do it themselves.)  Bethesda was not only responsible for that kit, they owned that kit.

 

All the people whining about modders "only" getting 25% for their IP were kind of missing that point - none of it would exist without Bethesda's IP.

[typographie]

All the people whining about modders "only" getting 25% for their IP were kind of missing that point - none of it would exist without Bethesda's IP.

 

That never was the point until someone arbitrarily made it the point. Bethesda put modding support into Skyrim three years before they tried to make any money off of it. This was never part of their business plan so I have to assume the cost of those modding tools were already baked into the sale price of the game. The speed at which Bethesda gave up this effort seems to support that.

 

Bethesda makes money through modding via sales of the game that have continued, and will continue, for years longer than they would have otherwise. Assuming they don't poison the well by trying to monetize the work of others.

 

If Bethesda suddenly needs to make money off of modding—despite all evidence to the contrary over the last several years—I'd rather they just charged a flat, affordable rate for the Creation Kit. That's what they developed and support, not the mods.

[JcGross]

Valve didn't take 75%. That's a myth flying around. They took their usual 30% steam cut.

The problem is that once they have taken their 30% and Bethesda has taken their 45%, then that leaves the mod maker with only 25% which isn't good enough.

I don't think this is a cash grab by Bethesda or Valve. But I do see the fact that the mod maker only got 25% as a major problem.

It's all the same in the end. I knew that the 75% was further divided between Bethesda and Valve, but I didn't know, and frankly, didn't care about the exact figures. The main thing is they left fuck all to the actual mod developers.

[Brainless906]

It's all the same in the end. I knew that the 75% was further divided between Bethesda and Valve, but I didn't know, and frankly, didn't care about the exact figures. The main thing is they left fuck all to the actual mod developers.

 

This is horribly short sighted. 

First you've decided you'll be mad at valve and call them greedy despite taking no more than the already accepted 30% they've taken in the past.

Then you complain that they left "fuck all" for the modders when now they have no legal means to make any money off the hours of work they put into mods.

 

Sure they can get "donations" but thats a legal/moral gray area and honestly if Bethesda wanted to go after them they would loose in a heartbeat. 

 

Valve is made up of tons of people who are there because of modding/mods, I have no reason to believe any of them are honestly going out of their way to royally screw over modders.

 

a thought process of "wow this was really hard and time consuming before I actually got a job because of this, I wish that when i was a modder i had a way to actually support myself with it" make tons of sense in this situation. 

[XzzDSA]

Atleast they are somewhat honest about it!

[Sauron]

As expected. Now let's all chill a little bit...

[Victorious Secret]

As expected. Now let's all chill a little bit...

 

But I bought brand new pitchforks? 

 

Damnit. 

[Sauron]

But I bought brand new pitchforks? 

 

Damnit. 

 

Don't worry, Ubisoft will justify the purchase eventually

[Victorious Secret]

Don't worry, Ubisoft will justify the purchase eventually

 

Ubisoft will never see another cent. 

 

Wait a minute, Rainbow 6 Siege is coming out. 

 

DAMNIT

[Nowak]

But I bought brand new pitchforks? 

 

Damnit. 

Keep 'em around for when another company does something shitty.

[ViruZ_HUN]

they could make a donation button for each mod and some ppl would donate anyways

[tangra]

Hmm, as a developer my self UNFORTUNATLY 25% for the dev is not a bad deal. Let me explain ...

 

If you are an indie dev and you make your own game: No matter what store you post it to, you loose 30% imediatly. This is true for Google Play, Apple store, Windows store or Steam. The only way arround this is, if you are so big that the store WANTS you. Lets not talk about serious hostig costs that I am sure even a forum like this one is having. Or the handling of transactions handled world wide and not just in the USA, different currency and so on. Steamworks as well. If you plan on having a system that hosts mods and maintenense on it ... cost just goies up and up and up.
There is a rason why you want to be on Steam, and this is the userbase and potential exposure that you will never have if you try to do it your self. Its basically trying to be a successful vlogger without youtube ... We all know how well vessel works.

 

IT MAY happen (minecraft) but this is basically once in a lifetime thing. Valve for example released the tools they use for map making of their source games and this is how their content is built.

 

Now to the big question about mods. MODS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FREE!

- That is correct ... and its because they can't be payed. Untill the mods decide that they want their own game. They are free untill they become good enough and the developer decides that this is going to be a full time project and it ends up being a game. Counter Strike? Team Fortress? Dota? Day Z?

 

Many mods start as exploration projects and are rarely finished, because the modder has better and more intersting things to do with his time. (Life ... outside of a full time job cannot be only dedicated to a MOD)

 

Whats interesting as well is that mods are intersting way to get into game development. Way easier than building your own game, since  many of the moding tools are not made for programmers and it does not require low level knowledge of the engine. Its designed for artists and level designers, while the programmers are locked in a dungeon working on the next version of the tools ...

 

A game is either decompiled and components are hijacked (if even possible, depending on how a game is built) or, the developer him self provdes you with the tools. In fact you have tools provided by the developer (in many cases the tools that a developer builds internally to build the game). The game is already running, the main logic is there and you have a much less of an overhead than you would if you try to build your own game.

 

Lets not forget that you are also attaching your work on a COMERCIAL IP with an existing consumer base. The name "The Elder Scrolls" is much more valuable than people give credit. Imagine if cities skylines was called sim city ... it would have sold many times more than the already excelent sales.

 

Lets say that you decide to go and build your own version of SKYRIM, call it Walking Simulator Shouting at Dragons 9000.

- It will cost you MUCH more money. In fact you will probably seek a publisher or an angel investor. IF you get the money from an angel investor it will be enough to build the first level and then you will ask to go to a publisher (lets not forget, you want to build a better skyrim). If the publisher sais YES, you will have to remove the dragons and make it into Aliens. Because aliens are hot right now. Good, good. Lets say, you are able to move forward and you ship your game (you got financed ...)

- Your INDEPENDENT skyrim will cost MUCH more, you will still give 30% to vavle becuase it will be on their store (unless its EA ..).  The Publisher will take 60% cut, the angle investor will take 7 and you, will end up with 3, if the publisher is nice to you. NO SERIOUSLY, there is a reason why you never hear what the publisher agreanements are.

 

Unless you are rich. No, unless you are really rich. In this case, PM me.

 

What I am trying to convey here, is that mods lets you attach your self to this existing product and change it to the way you think it will be better. And not buld your own version from the ground up. It is MUCH less expensive for one, and its lets you have your own unique take on existing enviroment. Heck, in many cases it does not require you to know programming or being an artists. It does not even require for you to have a FULL TEAM.

I do belive that oppening Mods to be comercialised can be great in practice ... Yes we will have 8k HORSE GENETILIA just like we have Toilet Simulator. But you will also have the occasional masterpiece just like you do with indie games. Those are not the people that will be supported just like crap indie games are not supported. At the end of the day, consumers will vote with their wallets, we will have tons of crap and few verry good mods that will make money. Also, about mods relaying on other mods.. ya well in software this is basically a daily occurance. Libraries are crated, that are widely usued by other products. Those librarires are usually released by existing commercial parties.

 

People that want to release their mods for free wil do so.  Just like we have open source projects all over the dev world. Or even games like OPEN TDD, which is still getting better years into developmenet. If a developer decides to BAN, free mods, they will get the backslash that they deserve. As for the 25%? Well, I like the fact that its the publisher that decides this part. Because, this creates the possiblity of publishers competing for mod creators by making it better to work on one game than another. This is at least in theory ... can it turn all to shit? ABSOLUTELY. There are many things that need to be done for this to work right, and I glad that Valve backed up to rethink this.

[GrimNeo]

I don't know why so many people freaked out about the paid mods ideal. Its not like they are running a business like Valve or Bethesda. You don't need Mods to play Skyrim anyways.

[Lewellyn]

Sure they can get "donations" but thats a legal/moral gray area and honestly if Bethesda wanted to go after them they would loose in a heartbeat. 

 

They've been allowed to recieve donations with Bethesda's blessing since March 2012. http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/605097-nexus-donation-system-for-users/

[ThomasD]

That never was the point until someone arbitrarily made it the point. Bethesda put modding support into Skyrim three years before they tried to make any money off of it. This was never part of their business plan so I have to assume the cost of those modding tools were already baked into the sale price of the game. The speed at which Bethesda gave up this effort seems to support that.

 

Bethesda makes money through modding via sales of the game that have continued, and will continue, for years longer than they would have otherwise. Assuming they don't poison the well by trying to monetize the work of others.

 

If Bethesda suddenly needs to make money off of modding—despite all evidence to the contrary over the last several years—I'd rather they just charged a flat, affordable rate for the Creation Kit. That's what they developed and support, not the mods.

Nothing arbitrary about it, it's how intellectual property rights work.

 

Whether it was "part of their business plan" or not is a red herring.

 

Bethesda retained ownership and control of their property the whole time.  You certainly can wish they would do otherwise with the kit, but ultimately it is their decision, and they have chosen otherwise from the very start.  Anyone who attempts to monetize or profit off of things made with their resource kit has to deal with this fact.

 

I've never like the idea of software licensing, and remember the days when you bought software the same as you bought a copy of a book, but that ship sailed years ago.  We don't own any of it, we only pay for (limited) permissions.

[BiG StroOnZ]

My thoughts the whole time on the paid mods debacle:

 

[Brainless906]

They've been allowed to recieve donations with Bethesda's blessing since March 2012. http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/605097-nexus-donation-system-for-users/

 

 

Fair enough. I'd still argue that that's small scale when compared to something build into steam and I honestly believe bethesda would not be so giving if it were the case. I have nothing to back that though so it has no legs to stand on i suppose.