Skyrim paid mods are gone

[Misanthrope]

You mean... like they have been doing for the past... I dunno, 22 years now? (going by Doom's release year as that was one of the first major games to actively support user modifications.) And how can you be so sure that donations are non-existent for mod developers? Sure, there have been many a mod that have ended development because of a lack of funding, but that doesn't mean that every mod that needs funding to develop has stopped development because of a lack of funding.

 

I think he meant that there was actually a great number of modders that wanted to get paid. Like I and others mention here there's actually far too many variables they failed to properly address and such, but this brief experiment showed that 1) People are willing to sell mods 2) People are willing to pay for mods.

 

Hopefully later on this can be improved upon although I believe that a game needs to be technically better since a lot of the interoperability issues on Skyrim modding  come from the fact that the game is highly inadequate on some areas so a lot of "resource" type mods and tools like SKSE, SkyUI, ENB among others are needed when they should be better addressed by the game engine itself so people can focus on creating assets, gameplay elements, quests, etc. Instead of going "Well, I can't do what I need with in game scripting or menus, I have to depend on SKSE and SkyUI for this to be somewhat functional"

 

This will basically take a brand new game with an engine that better addresses this issues. The thing is that is actually rather difficult to have a 1) A very mod friendly game with proper tools and 2) A very popular game since it's just as important that there's a massive community of people playing the game itself for an incredibly extensive period of time for a very large modding community to emerge. 

[Argent]

I think getting Valve to backpedal on a system they put in place is a great achievement in of itself.  Greenlight, Early Access, User Reviews, User Tags, all of these got heat but never resulted in so much damage control from Valve.

An achievement? Yes. A big one? Maybe.

 

I used the term 'victory' because I've seen so many people saying "We won!" or something similar and I'm not sure it's truly a win.  Valve will try again and in the mean time, hopefully we haven't lost any mod authors permanently. 

[WillFromGA]

The battle is won but the war is still on going...

This was a very dumb move. Especially giving the creator 25% of the revenue

If I remember correctly, Bethesda made that number up. Not steam. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[MoonSpot]

--snip--

 

I don't think it needs a new game.  There is a huge mod user base with skyrim and they obviously think it is worth money.  If bethesda buys out or buys the rights for FNIS, SkyUI, ENBoost(or ENB), SKSE, loot/boss and the unofficial Patch then allows both free and paid mods to use those resources, they'd have a much more realistic foundation to launch paid mods.  or something along those lines imo.

But I'm no modder so what resources are fundamentally needed I can't really say.  Those are just the ones that I know I need in order to maintain a bases to enable the mods I use.

[aahrg]

I don't think valve CAN monetize gtaV mods. Rockstar has their own DRM and steam isn't mandatory to play gta

[Lazmarr]

Donation button at least ?

Exactly, why not stick a donate button on it instead where the mod creator and Bethesda get 45% each and Steam gets 10% of the amount donated?

That would be a WAAAAAAAAAAAY better system, since we aren't inclined to pay and if the the individual deems the mod to be worthy of some money then they can donate something; if the mod is a total piece of bugged out to-hell nonsense then at least you haven't lost anything

[Misanthrope]

I don't think it needs a new game.  There is a huge mod user base with skyrim and they obviously think it is worth money.  If bethesda buys out or buys the rights for FNIS, SkyUI, ENBoost(or ENB), SKSE, loot/boss and the unofficial Patch then allows both free and paid mods to use those resources, they'd have a much more realistic foundation to launch paid mods.  or something along those lines imo.

But I'm no modder so what resources are fundamentally needed I can't really say.  Those are just the ones that I know I need in order to maintain a bases for the mods I use.

 

You're assuming they all would be receptive to being bought out. Some of them already flatout said they would never accept that. Modders created all those resources as workaround but since they created them, now they dictate how their work should be used so it's not easy to just buy em out. Even if they legally could get away with it a lot of those mod tools have continued support which patches things and implements new features constantly.

 

For a game to be more fair to everyone creating mods a lot of those resources should be included with the base game. Some of them were oversights by Bethesda like the limited scripting capabilities, others are a byproduct of this being a relatively old game. A newer game with better visuals for example wouldn't actually need ENB and it's presents, not to mention it would be a lot more efficient since modded skyrim looks great but is the worst performing game experience you can possibly have with massive overhead issues that cripple performance in all but the absolute top of the line rigs.

 

A new game is kinda needed to implement the concept of paid mods imho.

[Nowak]

Exactly, why not stick a donate button on it instead where the mod creator and Bethesda get 45% each and Steam gets 10% of the amount donated?

That would be a WAAAAAAAAAAAY better system, since we aren't inclined to pay and if the the individual deems the mod to be worthy of some money then they can donate something; if the mod is a total piece of bugged out to-hell nonsense then at least you haven't lost anything

It's illegal to take a cut from donations. If Valve and Bethesda were to do that, take cuts from donations, they'd find themselves in a federal court faster than you can say "paid mods".

[Misanthrope]

It's illegal to take a cut from donations. If Valve and Bethesda were to do that, take cuts from donations, they'd find themselves in a federal court faster than you can say "paid mods".

 

There's plenty of ways around that: you can call it maintenance fee's, handling fee's, You can even offer minor and mostly useless benefits like Twitch subscriptions do while we all know people subscribe to support the streamer not to get the stupid smilies and such.

[Trik'Stari]

I would have supported this if the mod makers were ACTUALLY getting paid a decent amount for their time and effort. But what Steam//Valve was taking was just complete horse shit.

[happyboyben]

Is this only for skyrim or is it possible that other games may have paid mods on there skyrim workshop. 

[Jedicake]

Well I'm glad everyone is happy again now! I hope PCMR reddit isn't a shitshow anymore.

 

Can get back to the good ole bashing peasants and proving our superiority

[MoonSpot]

--snip--

 

I know some might not go for selling those rights, but it's the option that beth should explore.  Establish dialog see what they want, need, and then discuss what's possible.  I am not at all assuming that these mod authors are interested in having that kind of dealing/relationship with bethesda.  I am however suggesting that that is where I would start and just start talking and see if something can work.  The episode with FNIS would seem to suggest that it would not be an easy conversation with fores; the impression that I've got from ENB is there's no pushover there with a soft spot for beth, and the folks that troubleshot the unofficial patch are just as likely to kill any bethesda personnel as talk to them (exaggeration, but troubleshooting someone elses stuff is a pain in the ass)

 

Now as you'd said specifically about ENB not being required, sure, fine.  It's just me that has crap vram, but I can only talk about what I know/have to deal with.  But enboost is pretty forking awesome, and lets users(me) use or potentially buy more mods.  Or hell, just make a few run waaay better.

 

A new game could eliminate a lot of the issue, sure, absolutely.  but a new game won't necessarily have the user base either.  So work with your knowns, try to get to know your unknowns(framework modders), then crunch the numbers.

[Lazmarr]

It's illegal to take a cut from donations. If Valve and Bethesda were to do that, take cuts from donations, they'd find themselves in a federal court faster than you can say "paid mods".

by donation I meant of a pay-what-you-want type of button

[Nowak]

by donation I meant of a pay-what-you-want type of button

That's basically what they had before. The amounts were fixed, however.

[Briggsy]

the modders who eagerly went paid are going to have some trust issues in the community now. I know I would think twice before adding a new mod with SkyUI support, who knows if they would jump on board the pay wagon again when Valve decides they want to try this again. One thing is for certain - the next elder scrolls game, fallout game or any of Bethesda's mod-able games will be scrutinized, analyzed and otherwise put under the microscope like crazy by the community.

[Misanthrope]

A new game could eliminate a lot of the issue, sure, absolutely.  but a new game won't necessarily have the user base either.  So work with your knowns, try to get to know your unknowns(framework modders), then crunch the numbers.

 

Agreed, if you look back that was point 2) on my post on why a new game to mod is difficult: it needs to be a really popular game with great longevity. Something that is not easy to do.

[Paranoid Kami]

I'm glad that they took it down. I think paying modders is the way forward, but don't think how they did it was how it should have been done. With the content creator only taking 25%, it's essentially contracted out DLC. Imaging if every game came out and had non-stop paid DLC starting from release as studios would probably start doing things like giving early access to popular modders and things like that. This was bound to be abused.

[Trik'Stari]

I'm glad that they took it down. I think paying modders is the way forward, but don't think how they did it was how it should have been done. With the content creator only taking 25%, it's essentially contracted out DLC. Imaging if every game came out and had non-stop paid DLC starting from release as studios would probably start doing things like giving early access to popular modders and things like that. This was bound to be abused.

Agreed. Give the modder 75% of the price, and I would support this whole heartedly.

[Nowak]

I think that this goes to show that, if we make our voices loud enough, anything can happen, even in an industry that has decided that profits are more important than satisfied customers.

[Snickerzz]

Just as I was about to submit my 8K horse genitalia mod.

Thanks guys.

Awww

[Nexxus]

Fantastic.

Now this is how we do it right

 

Mod tolos are a reasonable but modest fee for mod makers The dev gets their cut.

Valve takes their 30% I do think this is a bit much but it seems to be about the standard for this kinda thing.

and the most important part. MODS ARE SOLD ON DONATIONS AND DONATIONS ALONE, NOTHING MORE.

everyone gets a cut, mod maker has a chance to make some coin, users arent screwed by incompatible mods/mods needing other supporting mods/any other number of issues. 

Seriously does anyone know how I can get this idea to the eyes that matter at valve cause this seems like the best possible option for everyone involved.

 

[Swndlr]

Just as I was about to submit my 8K horse genitalia mod.

Thanks guys.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Everyone is entitled to the occasional f*ckup.  I'm just glad that Valve realized this was one and undid it.   

[MoonSpot]

Agreed, if you look back that was point 2) on my post on why a new game to mod is difficult: it needs to be a really popular game with great longevity. Something that is not easy to do.

 

http://www.bethblog.com/

 

A good read, and perhaps relevant to our side discussion on new title vs skyrim, and #modgate on the whole (I hate this gate everything damnit)

 

Despite all that, it’s still too small in our eyes. Only 8% of the Skyrim audience has ever used a mod. Less than 1% has ever made one.

That's bad

 

 

There are certainly other ways of supporting modders, through donations and other options. We are in favor of all of them. One doesn’t replace another, and we want the choice to be the community’s. Yet, in just one day, a popular mod developer made more on the Skyrim paid workshop than he made in all the years he asked for donations.

That's bad too, and sad.  (I is guilty...so very guilty)

Seems pretty clear that donations aren't viable, or at least haven't been thus far.   Here's hoping.  Can one eat and drink hope?  Didn't work for me in the past, but admittedly worse when hopeless.

 

**off topic** ancient Greek, Pandora's box.  When opened released all manner of evils onto the world.  And in the box also contained hope.  But is hope good, or is hope an evil?

 

More games are coming to Paid Mods on Steam soon, and many will be at 25%, and many won’t. We’ll figure out over time what feels right for us and our community. If it needs to change, we’ll change it.

 

And there you have it.  You sir, appear to be correct.