Xbox One Petition to Re-Revert the DRM Scheme

[Anult]

I'm getting the console either way so I don't really care

 

Better get that duct tape and cover ready then.

[EChondo]

it was originally meant to be like Steam, the games WOULD of been allot cheaper and there wouldn't of been any need for CD's,

however people pressured them to keep it the same way cause they didn't realise this due to bad wording on Microsoft's behalf 

It's not a matter of would, it's a matter of "could". Many people have asked Microsoft about lower pricing and the only person to respond was Major Nelson, but he didn't even confirm it, it just said they "could" do it.

 

Also, I don't understand how they can't have digital game sales like they wanted to without the 24 hour requirement. Steam allows you to be offline indefinitely from what I've heard, yet nearly it's 99% digital.

 

With the DRM or not, my main problem is the Kinect. As long as the Kinect is a requirement, I will not buy one and I will not let it inside my home.

[Vitalius]

If they revert, that alone will decide which console I'll be buying. I'll be getting a xbone.

A console focused around online is a step forward. Without this, we may as well not even bother with a new generation.

I'm not interested in another generation of just increased graphics. I want true technological advancement. And the move to an online centric platform is the only reason to but into a new generation.

It's not the power of the console that matters, it's the features and exclusives that make them. And the only features on ps4 that can't be done on the ps3 is social BS, where as the Xbone was built around online abilities.

Tldr; original xbone is better than ps4 because of features designed for the future and not the past.

 

Obvious Troll is obvious.

I really hate that they didn't fall through with the DRM.

I really wanted to see what would happen after it was released.

 

You mean a lot of "no one buying it"? Because that's what would happen after it was released. A whole lot of nothing.

The new generation of PC is getting the Oculus Rift and the Virtuix Omni. Both shown on LinusTechTips.

 

This.

"

Phukfaic McGee AUSTRALIA

 

I love restrictions. I want always online DRM. I want the game rental business to become obsolete. I don't want to let my friends borrow games, because fuck them. All I care about is my god damn new age console that'll blow everything else out of the water! Fuck the PS4 and fuck those Sony guys for catering to fans who care about their gaming experience. Fuck PC, that shit is stupid. Steam? Fuck that shit. They never have sales or anything. It's not as affordable as buying my games from the XBL marketplace. I love Microsoft and their business practices will be the best forever. Fuck yes. <3 Xbox.

"

 

Gotta love that one

 

Lol

Are you completely out of your mind? How would the old crappy policy help with anything? The Xbox One can still be "online focused", it's just that they don't force it onto everyone. Want to play online? Then go ahead and play online. Want some of the features which requires online? Then go online and use those features.

 

Please tell me why it would have been better with the previous policy. Give me some solid situations which could have happened before, but can't happen now.

 

Steam does fine without DRM beyond "one time connection". Why Xbox One can't have both the awesome features it mentioned without all the DRM, I have no idea. 

If the awesome features "require" the DRM, then the awesome features can go fuck sexually assault themselves. Pardon the "french", but that's how it is. The lack of pre-orders showed it.

Wasn't expecting this, but I'll sign it, gladly.

Me too. :) Moar XB1 failure is good. SONY WOO!

It's not a matter of would, it's a matter of "could". Many people have asked Microsoft about lower pricing and the only person to respond was Major Nelson, but he didn't even confirm it, it just said they "could" do it.

 

Also, I don't understand how they can't have digital game sales like they wanted to without the 24 hour requirement. Steam allows you to be offline indefinitely from what I've heard, yet nearly it's 99% digital.

 

With the DRM or not, my main problem is the Kinect. As long as the Kinect is a requirement, I will not buy one and I will not let it inside my home.

This. 

This and my DRM with new features comment go hand in hand.

[1funnygame]

oh cool i was waiting for this to be posted i voted for the awesome features they removed to be re-added :D its already reached 20,000 signatures wouldn't it be great if Microsoft listened for Once?

[Vitalius]

oh cool i was waiting for this to be posted i voted for the awesome features they removed to be re-added :D its already reached 20,000 signatures wouldn't it be great if Microsoft listened for Once?

Looool, nice troll.

[1funnygame]

Looool, nice troll.

dude Sony just took advantage of your lack of wanting a brighter future where games can be shared digitally and where you could play all the kinect games your heart greatly Desires!!!

[Vitalius]

dude Sony just took advantage of your lack of wanting a brighter future where games can be shared digitally and where you could play all the kinect games your heart greatly Desires!!!

Sure sure. I desire Omni and Occulus. I desire to play games that I love. I desire my privacy and rights as a consumer.

XB1 with the old DRM doesn't have any of that, only PC and PS4 do. :P

[DLM_012]

I would have absolutely no problem with DRM if it was like Steam and Microsoft had sales like Steam but they're far too greedy for that.

[JaeDee884]

Obvious Troll is obvious.

Not trolling, genuine opinion.

Zero reason to get the ps4 and xbox, because both of them are not revolutionary and do not bring anything new to the market, e3 xbox one did.

I remember a time before people accused anyone who disagreed with them of trolling.

 

[heineygoat]

What happened to the Steam box?

 

and half life?

[Vitalius]

Not trolling, genuine opinion.

Zero reason to get the ps4 and xbox, because both of them are not revolutionary and do not bring anything new to the market, e3 xbox one did.

I remember a time before people accused anyone who disagreed with them of trolling.

Well, PS4 does bring something new to the console table.

All that streaming stuff that it has. Playing a game over the internet for your friend? Not with but for? Bawlin'. That's legit.

Being able to stream games from your console to your handheld and play them a moderate distance away? Convenient.

Being able to stream older generation title for almost true backwards compatibility (assuming we can somehow get games we already own without re-buying them) including hand held games? Never been done before.

And it's not so much the whole "bringing something new to the table" thing that bothers me enough to call you a troll. It's that you even, for an instant, found the announced "features" of the XB1 acceptable. Sure, they'd be awesome without all the DRM, but the two are so intertwined, for me, they may as well be the same thing until someone does it and does it better (without DRM).

If you are just arguing for the features without DRM, then I agree with you. It sounds awesome. But the DRM goes beyond ruining it. It goes to the point where Microsoft couldn't pay me enough to own their console. That's how bad it was.

The pre-orders show this, as I said.

I called you a troll because I couldn't honestly believe someone would be "for" this in any way, beyond the features themselves without DRM. But the entire package? No. Just no. :|

I may be assuming there, but it's a safe assumption imo.

[SteepGnomeKing]

rambling rambling you disagree with me you trolling

 

Just because you didn't like the DRM that was on the Xbox One doesn't mean everyone else does. It may have seemed to be a thing that everyone hated on it even though that wasn't true.

 

I didn't mind it because I would always have internet connection for the device. I like the features and the only way it was possible was with the online connection. And a bunch of PC gamers that wouldn't buy it and 'games journalist' that over react and don't take in everything first destroyed the idea of this ever happening.

 

It brought a better system that offered features that are needed with buying digital goods. Now it's back to having the same shitty system Steam has where you license the games and can not let anyone else play them. It would have been nice to let your friends use your digital games to test the game out. Because let's face it, digital games is where the industry is headed. But a bunch of pissed off people are holding that back once again because of a simple internet connection.

 

Who gives a shit if you need an internet connection don't buy the dam system if you are to dam lazy to insert a cable or set up wifi. Ever go on an Xbox 360 without internet, everything is blank tiles because of that, all the features are not there. Every go on a PC without internet, it's lost most of it's capability there also. The system it was advertised to be was more advanced and had more features than it currently does.

 

And the two things you listed for what PS4 brings to the table let me tell you something. YOU NEED INTERNET FOR THAT! Just because it isn't required doesn't mean anything. Why are you not hooking up your console to your internet and not getting system updates, dlc, game patches, extra content and features.

 

So you sir while not a troll are a fan boy that doesn't understand everything before over reacting just like most people did. If you see it another way good for you I am still going to call you a fan boy.

[Vitalius]

*facepalm*

You are proving my point. :|

The pre-order numbers (5:1 in favor of PS4) before they did the 180 proves that many many many many people did not like the DRM.

But I'll stop now. Trolls will be trolls.

[JaeDee884]

Well, PS4 does bring something new to the console table.

All that streaming stuff that it has. Playing a game over the internet for your friend? Not with but for? Bawlin'. That's legit.

Being able to stream games from your console to your handheld and play them a moderate distance away? Convenient.

Being able to stream older generation title for almost true backwards compatibility (assuming we can somehow get games we already own without re-buying them) including hand held games? Never been done before.

And it's not so much the whole "bringing something new to the table" thing that bothers me enough to call you a troll. It's that you even, for an instant, found the announced "features" of the XB1 acceptable. Sure, they'd be awesome without all the DRM, but the two are so intertwined, for me, they may as well be the same thing until someone does it and does it better (without DRM).

If you are just arguing for the features without DRM, then I agree with you. It sounds awesome. But the DRM goes beyond ruining it. It goes to the point where Microsoft couldn't pay me enough to own their console. That's how bad it was.

The pre-orders show this, as I said.

I called you a troll because I couldn't honestly believe someone would be "for" this in any way, beyond the features themselves without DRM. But the entire package? No. Just no. :|

I may be assuming there, but it's a safe assumption imo.

Yeah the DRM is a big pain the ass. but honestly I cannot see a way for them to focus on digital sales without it on a console platform.

And I say this as one of the guys with shitty internet. But the positives far outway the negatives (imo) 

[EChondo]

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I think we all need to agree on a general consensus about the Xbox One and it's features/capabilities.

 

1. We all know the advantages and disadvantages for having DRM.

2. Microsoft didn't need a 24 hour requirement for DRM, you don't need one on Steam or any other platform/service. All Microsoft had to do was say "you can only buy games digitally and only from the Xbox Marketplace". DRM isn't about Internet, it's about being tied to one service and that service only. Steam is DRM because it's a store, client, community, etc. It's something that is easy to use and is versatile. Also all games bought on Steam has money going towards Steam, Microsoft could have done the same, but they didn't. If you're worried about retail, well Steam has retail games too, dubbed "Steamworks". If your game is Steamworks, you will get a Steam key regardless if you bought it physically or digitally. Microsoft could have and SHOULD have done this as well.

3. SteepGnomeKing, those services do require Internet, but the console as a whole should NOT need an Internet requirement. Yes, my computer needs Internet to play online, but if I lose Internet access or I just want to be disconnected, I can. The 24 hour requirement was NOT DRM, it was a limitation imposed by Microsoft for their own gains. All the features they have said could have and would have worked just fine with or without Internet.

 

If Microsoft came out and said "You can only buy digital games, there is no online requirement unless you buy a game and need to activate online, and Kinect is not required" then I would buy it in a heartbeat. The limitations they imposed on us were not part of the DRM, they did for reasons unknown to any of us.

[eshbop]

Personally, I preferred the old policies. Everything the Internet told me was evil about them I had no problem with and the possibilities were, at least, interesting.

 

MS and Sony will likely slowly implement similar policies over the life of the new consoles anyway.

[LAwLz]

it was originally meant to be like Steam, the games WOULD of been allot cheaper and there wouldn't of been any need for CD's,

however people pressured them to keep it the same way cause they didn't realise this due to bad wording on Microsoft's behalf 

Source please. As far as I know that was just rumors and if it was, please don't present it like if it is a fact. Major Nelson in his interview sounded like they were just planning on having the same level of "sales" as they currently got in the Xbox Live marketplace (which is no way near the level of sales Steam has). Skip forward to 08:55 for the conversation about sales.

 

 

 

Not trolling, genuine opinion.

Zero reason to get the ps4 and xbox, because both of them are not revolutionary and do not bring anything new to the market, e3 xbox one did.

I remember a time before people accused anyone who disagreed with them of trolling.

OK, what revolutionary thing did the Xbox One before the 180 have, which can't be implemented anymore?

[ivhyn]

I really hope the Xbox 180 doesn't lack sales. They had the balls to try something new, also they keep Kinect in the package. Maybe we can look at some new expiriences with that camera. I'm so sick of those controllers, give them 2 to 3 years and they break because are not always perfect quality wise.

 

If Microsoft fails we look at a Sony monopole. For almost every exclusive game on either side there's a counterpart on the other one. Halo - Killzone, Forza Motorsport - Gran Turismo and so on and so forth. There's a disturbance in the force if the One fails (wow, that phrase could be directly from Star Wars VII)

[SteepGnomeKing]

I can't even watch that video, when it came out I thought I thought it was a very disrespectful and poor interview based on his own opinions getting in the way of a proper interview.

 

We can't assume either way if they would have or wouldn't have had steam like sales. We will tell with the release of the Xbox One though if digital sales are popular enough it might happen.

[LAwLz]

Just because you didn't like the DRM that was on the Xbox One doesn't mean everyone else does. It may have seemed to be a thing that everyone hated on it even though that wasn't true.

Any rational non-fanboy would (and did) hate on it.

 

 

It brought a better system that offered features that are needed with buying digital goods. Now it's back to having the same shitty system Steam has where you license the games and can not let anyone else play them. It would have been nice to let your friends use your digital games to test the game out. Because let's face it, digital games is where the industry is headed. But a bunch of pissed off people are holding that back once again because of a simple internet connection.

1) That "better" system was not needed for buying digital goods at all. Please explain how it was needed if you think I am wrong and that there was no other solution at all.

 

2) This new system let's you share games. It was the old system which didn't let you share games. If my friend wanted to play my game, he would have had to pay Microsoft to do so. With the new system (without the DRM) I can lend the game to him and he can play it. You might not be able to do this with digital downloads anymore but there is no reason why Microsoft can't just add that in as well. No reason whatsoever. Also, a huge keyword here is "test the game". Major Nelson said this regarding the family plan as well, and some posts floating around on the Internet says that by "testing" they meant a 15-45 minute demo of the game, not the full game.

 

It's not about the Internet connection either. It's about always online AS WELL as all the other crap they are trying to pull (mandatory Kinect, as in you are not even allowed to unplug it, no used games and so on). We are not holding back anything by the way, it is Microsoft who is holding it back because they could implement everything they talked about even without the bad things like always online. It's just that they got pissed when people didn't like their decisions so they decided to remove some features as well to split the fanbase into two camps who are arguing among themselves instead of hating on Microsoft.

 

 

I didn't mind it because I would always have internet connection for the device. I like the features and the only way it was possible was with the online connection. And a bunch of PC gamers that wouldn't buy it and 'games journalist' that over react and don't take in everything first destroyed the idea of this ever happening.

Who gives a shit if you need an internet connection don't buy the dam system if you are to dam lazy to insert a cable or set up wifi.

A lot of people cared that you needed an Internet connection. Believe it or not, but not everything is exactly 100% like you, and have exactly the same opinions (which is a good thing). Just because you were OK with it does not mean it was the right thing to do, or that everyone else should be OK with it either. You're very egocentric if you think that.

 

And the two things you listed for what PS4 brings to the table let me tell you something. YOU NEED INTERNET FOR THAT! Just because it isn't required doesn't mean anything. Why are you not hooking up your console to your internet and not getting system updates, dlc, game patches, extra content and features.

Actually, not being a require IS a huge deal, and it matters a lot. You might be OK with being forced to use the things you have bought a certain way, but a lot of other people (including myself) want choice. If we don't want to be connected 24/7 and have a camera connected to the NSA pointed at us at all time, then we should have the choice not to. Choice is always good, so why do not you want choice?

[JaeDee884]

Source please. As far as I know that was just rumors and if it was, please don't present it like if it is a fact. Major Nelson in his interview sounded like they were just planning on having the same level of "sales" as they currently got in the Xbox Live marketplace (which is no way near the level of sales Steam has). Skip forward to 08:55 for the conversation about sales.

 

 

 

OK, what revolutionary thing did the Xbox One before the 180 have, which can't be implemented anymore?

Sure they could be, but without the DRM, people could effectively buy a disc, install it, then pass it to all of their mates, effectively giving an unlimited amount of people a free copy.

the only way I can see a diskless play style is to either digital distro, or a Game activation with a bind to account, with a check to see if the game currently activated to another account which the daily check helps with publisher security, and most publishers are very uneasy about any discless play system that doesn't have a form of drm.

outside of GOG games, can you name any PC game in the last ten years thats DRM free? even longer for some!

I'm just annoyed by all the disk junkies who can't move on to digital like civilised people moving to the future and not in the past. and I say this as a guy with slow and unstable internet.

 

[eshbop]

 

Actually, not being a require IS a huge deal, and it matters a lot. You might be OK with being forced to use the things you have bought a certain way, but a lot of other people (including myself) want choice. If we don't want to be connected 24/7 and have a camera connected to the NSA pointed at us at all time, then we should have the choice not to. Choice is always good, so why do not you want choice?

And those other people (including yourself) did/do have a choice.

 

Bombshell, it's called a PS4.

[LAwLz]

I can't even watch that video, when it came out I thought I thought it was a very disrespectful and poor interview based on his own opinions getting in the way of a proper interview.

 

We can't assume either way if they would have or wouldn't have had steam like sales. We will tell with the release of the Xbox One though if digital sales are popular enough it might happen.

His own opinions? He asked questions from the fans, and I think the questions were really good. It was Nelson who lost his shit and got angry, took the mic away from Joe and started talking bullshit about "do you want to live in the future" instead of answering the questions honestly.

 

The last part of your post is illogical by the way.

1) If digital downloads on the Xbox One were popular then why would they have sales? They would make more money by keeping the prices high, and since there is no competition (as in, other places where you can buy digital games for the Xbox One) they would have a monopoly and could charge whatever they felt like.

 

2) They have digital downloads on the Xbox 360, but they rarely have sales and then they do they are not even close to being like the summer sale. They lower the price on old titles a bit and that's it.

 

3) You shouldn't assume they would have huge sales just because the opposite haven't been proven. This is the exact same logic as highly religious people use (as in "you can't prove that God doesn't exist so therefore he does!"). Someone in this thread claimed that they would have huge sales, so the burden of proof is on them. I was simply asking for a source to that claim as well as posting where I think the RUMOR (not solid fact, just a rumor) came from and explained that it's very vague and not at all confirmed. If history is any indication to go by, then Microsoft will not have big sales for the Xbox One. I am pretty sure they will still have digital downloads by the way, so we will see.

[LAwLz]

Sure they could be, but without the DRM, people could effectively buy a disc, install it, then pass it to all of their mates, effectively giving an unlimited amount of people a free copy.

No they couldn't. There are several ways to avoid this:

1) Require the disc to be in the console in order to work.

2) Require you to be connected to the Internet the first time you play the game (or maybe give you like a 1 day period to sign in, and if you don't you can't play the game until you active it) and then not require you to check in ever again (unless you get a new game).

3) Have it as opt-in. So that you can either play the game and require the disc in the console, or you can go into settings and choose to play games without the disc, but then your console will have to check with Microsoft's servers once a day.

 

Those are 3 different ways to fix it without the horrible kind of DRM they used to have that I just came up with. I am sure the brilliant people at Microsoft could come up with even more and better solutions because you know, it's their job and not mine.

 

 

the only way I can see a diskless play style is to either digital distro, or a Game activation with a bind to account, with a check to see if the game currently activated to another account which the daily check helps with publisher security, and most publishers are very uneasy about any discless play system that doesn't have a form of drm.

outside of GOG games, can you name any PC game in the last ten years thats DRM free? even longer for some!

I'm just annoyed by all the disk junkies who can't move on to digital like civilised people moving to the future and not in the past. and I say this as a guy with slow and unstable internet.

You seem to think that there is only one kind of DRM, and everything with DRM are exactly the same. That's not the case. You can have more annoying kinds of DRM (like Microsoft) or less annoying kinds (like Steam).

 

 

 

And those other people (including yourself) did/do have a choice.

 

Bombshell, it's called a PS4.

Are you for real? By that logic you always have a choice to everything. You can either do X, or you can kill yourself. I am talking about having a choice of using the Xbox One however you like. Just saying "you have the choice to not buy it" is not a solution. An example of choice would be for example solution number 3 I listed. Then people have a choice how they want to use the console.

[eshbop]

His own opinions? He asked questions from the fans, and I think the questions were really good. It was Nelson who lost his shit and got angry, took the mic away from Joe and started talking bullshit about "do you want to live in the future" instead of answering the questions honestly.

 

The last part of your post is illogical by the way.

1) If digital downloads on the Xbox One were popular then why would they have sales? They would make more money by keeping the prices high, and since there is no competition (as in, other places where you can buy digital games for the Xbox One) they would have a monopoly and could charge whatever they felt like.

 

2) They have digital downloads on the Xbox 360, but they rarely have sales and then they do they are not even close to being like the summer sale. They lower the price on old titles a bit and that's it.

 

3) You shouldn't assume they would have huge sales just because the opposite haven't been proven. This is the exact same logic as highly religious people use (as in "you can't prove that God doesn't exist so therefore he does!"). Someone in this thread claimed that they would have huge sales, so the burden of proof is on them. I was simply asking for a source to that claim as well as posting where I think the RUMOR (not solid fact, just a rumor) came from and explained that it's very vague and not at all confirmed. If history is any indication to go by, then Microsoft will not have big sales for the Xbox One. I am pretty sure they will still have digital downloads by the way, so we will see.

1) Logic? If digital sales on Steam are popular why do they have sales?

2) Kind of like comparing apples to wrenches.

3) Maybe they wouldn't of had huge sales and maybe the games wouldn't of been cheaper (like the PS4, surely). But now we know that neither of these things will happen.