Xbox One Petition to Re-Revert the DRM Scheme

[martinrox1568]

I am not a lawyers so correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think it is illegal. They are not accessing it directly, and you have already given Microsoft permission to use it. Microsoft (which you have agreed are allowed to monitor you) saves the data, and then gives it to the NSA. If the NSA directly took the data without going through Microsoft, then it might be illegal. OK so if the only reason why the Kinect is there is so that you can use motion gestures, then why can't I unplug it I don't want to use motion gestures? Why did they make it so that the Xbone won't work without it plugged in?

 

 

I am not following you here. Are you saying that we do not know if Microsoft can upload images taken with the Kinect to their servers? The Kinect already does that, it takes images of you and uploads them to Microsoft's server. The difference between the old Kinect and the new Kinect is that the old one isn't required to use the Xbox. Don't want it taking pictures of you? Then unplug it. With this Xbone it's "don't like it taking pictures of you? Then throw it out the window and get a PS4".

 

 

You might be OK with Microsoft baby sitting you, but I am not. I know what's best for me, and what I want.

I don't give a damn about TV and a lot of people don't care either. To me and a lot of other people, it is completely useless. That's completely irrelevant to the Kinect though, not sure why you brought it up.

Yes, Microsoft wants me to want the Kinect, so what? I don't want it so why force me? A lot of people don't want the Kinect, so why force them? Why not give people the choice? If they think the Kinect is good, then people would buy it, bu t they don't think it's good. They think it's bad and that people wouldn't get it, which is why they are mandating it. Again, it's just like the start screen in Windows 8. Customers don't want it, but it is most beneficial to Microsoft so they force it. No, I don't want motion tracking. I simply don't. I used to have a Wii, my friend has a Kinect, I got a Galaxy S 4, and the motion tracking is garbage on all of them. It's not that it's unresponsive or anything like that, it's just that it's useless. I don't want it because it is pointless and just ruins the gaming experience in a lot of cases. Who in their right mind wants to flair around with your arms, jump around and so on when you could with much greater accuracy just move a joystick and press a button? I have already gone over the whole "it would be too expensive" argument in my previous post and you are not only wrong, but completely illogical with your inane claims.

Please show me an article where Microsoft admits that it is storing all of this data on Servers. You can't unplug it because of all the patents Microsoft it trying to make into reality where kinect knows how many people are in the room and charges per person for lets say renting a movie.

 

Show me one article from Microsoft admitting to saving all of this onto servers. And correct me if I am wrong, but is it so hard to turn the kinect around to that it is watching the room, not you. And if it was uploading all of this to servers 24/7, there would be a huge internet bill from your isp for uploading all of that data. And it would be illegal for them to bug your house without you knowing, so they would admit all of this was going to servers before you actually buy one and set it up.

 

You don't "flair around with your arms", you point to select, or look away to pause.

 

 

And lets agree one thing. For hardcore console gamers, the PS4 is clearly the better console. It is more powerful and doesn't have anything you don't want.

 

But for the PC gamer who has 2 kids who are 8 and 6 years old and wants to have a decent set top box to watch satelite tv and let the kids play with the kinect, the Xbox is clearly the better choice.

[LAwLz]

You don't believe that Microsoft will disable the 24 hour check in? You think that they just want to screw you over and don't give a damn about you? I can bet on my life that they will do something similar, Do you have any idea how many lawsuits will be filed if they did not do this? It is not only the nice thing to do, but the best way to avoid losing money over a bunch of lawsuits.

Yes, that is what I think. I think they think can make more money by forcing people to upgrade, then I don't think they would hesitate to brick it. What lawsuits? You sign a contract when you make the account (and they can change the contract at any time if they want to). Also, do you seriously think that some random person would have the financial power to sue Microsoft and its huge team of lawyers?

 

 

Even if we stick to your 50 million number, which is horribly false and would mean that every 3rd xbox has failed, there will probably be at least 150 million people that are going to complain. Look at how many people hated the xbox one when not one of them even had one.

It's far more correct than your "500 million" claim you pulled out of your *** before. You seem to assume that nobody has ever thrown away a functioning Xbox, nor do you question how that number was collected (might just be the amount of Xboxes shipped to stores, not actually sold).

 

 

Monopoly over what? Go to android if you don't like Apple. And what would be so bad for google to have a quality control over Apple. Hell even the google apps seem better on the iPhone. Look at youtube, sure its good an Android, but better on ios. Google NEEDS to start doing quality control, and maybe have a dedicated "UI" for apps to have.

On things such as where you can buy games and the "ecosystem" in general. I dislike how you just say random things without doing any research and then completely ignores the facts I present to you (such as the disaster that is the app store with its >60% zombie apps and ~200 flashlight apps).

 

 

And again, Microsoft won't do it because it is the right thing to do, but because of the gamers who are going to lose $600 on games each(maybe more if games get more expensive than they already are). If the Xbox one sells only 50 million, that is 30 billion dollars in game revenue. If they don't let you play the games, don't you think the law might step in?????

So your argument is basically "Microsoft won't do it because I said so"? That's a really bad argument. What is the law going to do? They would not be breaking the law, since you agreed to it when you signed the ToS. With the Xbox one (at least the old DRM) you never owned the games to begin with. What you paid for was to borrow the games essentially. If Microsoft wanted to take the games back then they had the right to do so, and you agreed to it.

 

 

Please show me an article where Microsoft admits that it is storing all of this data on Servers. You can't unplug it because of all the patents Microsoft it trying to make into reality where kinect knows how many people are in the room and charges per person for lets say renting a movie.

 

Show me one article from Microsoft admitting to saving all of this onto servers. And correct me if I am wrong, but is it so hard to turn the kinect around to that it is watching the room, not you. And if it was uploading all of this to servers 24/7, there would be a huge internet bill from your isp for uploading all of that data. And it would be illegal for them to bug your house without you knowing, so they would admit all of this was going to servers before you actually buy one and set it up.

 

You don't "flair around with your arms", you point to select, or look away to pause.

 

 

And lets agree one thing. For hardcore console gamers, the PS4 is clearly the better console. It is more powerful and doesn't have anything you don't want.

 

But for the PC gamer who has 2 kids who are 8 and 6 years old and wants to have a decent set top box to watch satelite tv and let the kids play with the kinect, the Xbox is clearly the better choice.

 

Please show me an article where Microsoft admits that it is storing all of this data on Servers.

Well this is for the old Kinect. I don't feel like digging through the huge amount of contradicting statements they have made about the new Kinect just to argue against some fanboy on a forum.

Q: Where does Microsoft store data about me, and for how long?

A: Data collected through use of Kinect is stored on Microsoft’s Windows Azure platform for up to three months, after which it will be deleted. During that three-month period, the data will be held for analysis purposes. If chosen for analysis, the data will be rendered into an anonymous state before use.

It also links things such as your face to your gamertag.

 

 

Show me one article from Microsoft admitting to saving all of this onto servers. And correct me if I am wrong, but is it so hard to turn the kinect around to that it is watching the room, not you. And if it was uploading all of this to servers 24/7, there would be a huge internet bill from your isp for uploading all of that data. And it would be illegal for them to bug your house without you knowing, so they would admit all of this was going to servers before you actually buy one and set it up.

See above for proof that they use the Kinect to collect data. Also, have you heard of KinectShare? It's a website where images taken with the Kinect can be uploaded.

Like I said before, they would not need to record you at all time. The idea that they can at any time start recording you should be off putting enough for you to not want it. I guess some people don't care about privacy though...

No, it's not illegal if you agree to it (which you do when you buy the console). You know those very long texts which you have to agree to before using your new console, new game or whatever? They say what Microsoft are allowed to do with it, and what you are allowed to do with it. It is a binding contract. I haven't seen the new ToS for the Xbone, but the old Kinect says that they are allowed to collect information with it. I don't see how this would be any different.

[martinrox1568]

Yes, that is what I think. I think they think can make more money by forcing people to upgrade, then I don't think they would hesitate to brick it. What lawsuits? You sign a contract when you make the account (and they can change the contract at any time if they want to). Also, do you seriously think that some random person would have the financial power to sue Microsoft and its huge team of lawyers?

 

 

It's far more correct than your "500 million" claim you pulled out of your *** before. You seem to assume that nobody has ever thrown away a functioning Xbox, nor do you question how that number was collected (might just be the amount of Xboxes shipped to stores, not actually sold).

 

 

On things such as where you can buy games and the "ecosystem" in general. I dislike how you just say random things without doing any research and then completely ignores the facts I present to you (such as the disaster that is the app store with its >60% zombie apps and ~200 flashlight apps).

 

 

So your argument is basically "Microsoft won't do it because I said so"? That's a really bad argument. What is the law going to do? They would not be breaking the law, since you agreed to it when you signed the ToS. With the Xbox one (at least the old DRM) you never owned the games to begin with. What you paid for was to borrow the games essentially. If Microsoft wanted to take the games back then they had the right to do so, and you agreed to it.

 

 

 

Well this is for the old Kinect. I don't feel like digging through the huge amount of contradicting statements they have made about the new Kinect just to argue against some fanboy on a forum.

It also links things such as your face to your gamertag.

 

 

See above for proof that they use the Kinect to collect data. Also, have you heard of KinectShare? It's a website where images taken with the Kinect can be uploaded.

Like I said before, they would not need to record you at all time. The idea that they can at any time start recording you should be off putting enough for you to not want it. I guess some people don't care about privacy though...

No, it's not illegal if you agree to it (which you do when you buy the console). You know those very long texts which you have to agree to before using your new console, new game or whatever? They say what Microsoft are allowed to do with it, and what you are allowed to do with it. It is a binding contract. I haven't seen the new ToS for the Xbone, but the old Kinect says that they are allowed to collect information with it. I don't see how this would be any different.

Please tell me how they can make money from lawsuits??? Your telling me that Microsoft won't get in trouble with the law if they steal $300 from every person who has bought 5 games for the xbox one?

 

And what do you care about how many apps there are that people don't use? If they don't use it it's not a fucking problem. But the ones that actually are used and needed are GOOD.

 

And can you not read? as your link about the old kinect says, the data remains anonymous. And I do not know why you would even bother since no one mentioned anything about the kinect.

 

It would be illegal for them to record you without you knowing, no matter what. As long as there is no indication of them recording(such as an led), it is ILLEGAL. Look at Google Glass's controversy for that.

 

And like I said, show me ONE reliable source that mentions the xbox one "watching" and recording you. If it was going to do it, Microsoft would have had to legally tell you about it. Without it, your arguement is completely 100% invalid, as your entire point is privacy 

[LAwLz]

Please tell me how they can make money from lawsuits??? Your telling me that Microsoft won't get in trouble with the law if they steal $300 from every person who has bought 5 games for the xbox one?

But they wouldn't "steal" 300 dollars, since all those people would have agreed to Microsoft's ToS. If you sign a contract which says "Microsoft is allowed to revoke your borrowed game at any point in time", or something along those lines, then the law is on their side. I don't understand which part you don't understand. If you sign a legally binding contract with Microsoft that states that they are allowed to revoke your privilege to use their servers, then they have the right to do so, even if it means you can't play your games, and don't think for a second that they wouldn't do this if they thought they could make more money (since more people would adopt their next generation console).

You don't say video rental services "steals" money from you when you give back the movie, right? It's the exact same thing here. With the old DRM, you didn't own the games, you borrowed them basically.

 

 

And what do you care about how many apps there are that people don't use? If they don't use it it's not a fucking problem. But the ones that actually are used and needed are GOOD.

I was just pointing out that this claim you did:

4. But the apple ecosystem MAKES sense. The app store is there so that Apple can make sure that every app is up to it's standard. If is wasn't this way, then ios would have a bunch of horrible apps that no one uses. Google should learn from this. If you have seen some (not all, but some) of android's apps, they are abysmal. 

is wrong, since the majority of iOS apps are obscure apps nobody has never downloaded. Either because they are redundant or because they are bad.

 You also missed the point I was trying to make.

 

 

And can you not read? as your link about the old kinect says, the data remains anonymous. And I do not know why you would even bother since no one mentioned anything about the kinect.

That's the old Kinect but why do you think the new one will be less privacy intrusive? Also, if you read more in the article you would realize that the Kinect (the old one as well as the new one) can identify your face. I am not sure about you, but me and a lot of other people are not comfortable with having a camera with face recognition (which can also see in the dark) pointed at us at all time. Also, nobody metnioned the Kinect? Really? The thread is full of people talking about the Kinect, and you have quoted several posts from me where I talk about the Kinect. How it's bad that it's mandatory, how it's privacy intrusive and so on. I think it is you who can't read.

 

 

It would be illegal for them to record you without you knowing, no matter what. As long as there is no indication of them recording(such as an led), it is ILLEGAL. Look at Google Glass's controversy for that.

And like I said, show me ONE reliable source that mentions the xbox one "watching" and recording you. If it was going to do it, Microsoft would have had to legally tell you about it. Without it, your arguement is completely 100% invalid, as your entire point is privacy 

I am not aware of any law which says it is illegal to use a recording device if it does not have any indicator that it is recording. The Google Glass controversy is not because it is breaking the law, it is because it is being used for things Google does not approve of.

 

I have already linked you to a page on Microsoft.com which says that they do collect information through the Kinect. What more do you want? And no, even if I did not have a source (which I have and I have posted it already) it would still not make my post 100% invalid, since some of it is speculation (based on previous ToS, what it is capable of and news such as PRISM) and some of it is not related to privacy at all (for example that you would not be able to play games if Microsoft shut their servers down).

 

Your whole argument is "I believe that they are good guys so therefore you are wrong" while my arguments are based on previous history and other logical reasoning. Microsoft isn't your best friend, they aren't even your friend. They see you as a source of money, and that's where your relationship ends. Don't get blinded by fanboy-ism please.