Xbox One Petition to Re-Revert the DRM Scheme

[LAwLz]

1) Logic? If digital sales on Steam are popular why do they have sales?

Because other shops such as GOG, GamersGate, GreenManGaming, Amazon and so on have sales during the summer. Don't compare Valve to Microsoft please. Valve actually care about customers while Microsoft are just out for more money.

 

 

2) Kind of like comparing apples to wrenches.

How? I am looking at Microsoft's current digital offers and drawing a conclusion based on that. How is that "comparing apples to wrenches"?

 

 

3) Maybe they wouldn't of had huge sales and maybe the games wouldn't of been cheaper (like the PS4, surely). But now we know that neither of these things will happen.

You're just making inane guesses here, which are based on absolutely nothing (unlike my previous conclusion which were based on Microsoft's history of digital sales. What makes you think they won't have sales with this new policy? I don't see any reason why they would have changed that at all. They still have digital downloads which works the same way as they used to. What do you base that claim on?

[eshbop]

 

Are you for real? By that logic you always have a choice to everything. You can either do X, or you can kill yourself. I am talking about having a choice of using the Xbox One however you like. Just saying "you have the choice to not buy it" is not a solution. An example of choice would be for example solution number 3 I listed. Then people have a choice how they want to use the console.

Of course you have a choice on everything, within the certain constraints.

 

If I had the choice of a Ps4/Xbox1 or computer and didn't want to play with a controller, my choice is the PC. If I want a console and didn't want Kinect, my choice is the PS4. If I want CUDA my choice is nvidia. If I want 4 free games my choice is AMD.

 

Couldn't the people of the Interwebz be all like 'Xbox1 is bad, does evil, no good for me, I'll get the PS4' instead of all like 'XBox1 POS, fuck you MS, die die die, hate u4eva, PS4 winner'.

[eshbop]

Because other shops such as GOG, GamersGate, GreenManGaming, Amazon and so on have sales during the summer. Don't compare Valve to Microsoft please. Valve actually care about customers while Microsoft are just out for more money.

How? I am looking at Microsoft's current digital offers and drawing a conclusion based on that. How is that "comparing apples to wrenches"?

You're just making inane guesses here, which are based on absolutely nothing (unlike my previous conclusion which were based on Microsoft's history of digital sales. What makes you think they won't have sales with this new policy? I don't see any reason why they would have changed that at all. They still have digital downloads which works the same way as they used to. What do you base that claim on?

1) Really, you don't think maybe that other shops have sales because Steam do? You think Valve has the sales out of the goodness of their heart? To make you feel warm inside. Or maybe it's so they can sell 1000s of copys of games that people would of otherwise not even looked at and hence turn a massive profit?

2) You were comparing the business model of Steam to MS digital game distribution, trying to make out that MS should have more digital sales. For one they are completely different platforms, servicing different markets, governed by different policies. You said it yourself "Don't compare Valve to Microsoft please."

3) Maybe it'll remain the same, maybe it won't. You can speculate as much a I. Point is, chances are, previously a move towards digital games looked like the endgame. One would assume with that there would be more digital sales.

[LAwLz]

Of course you have a choice on everything, within the certain constraints.

So you completely missed my (and a lot of other peoples') points. OK got it. Now try rereading the posts and arguments which have been made and you might understand what we are talking about. We are talking about having a choice of how to use the Xbox One as we want, without Microsoft literally watch us with a camera to make sure we don't do anything they don't approve of.

 

 

Couldn't the people of the Interwebz be all like 'Xbox1 is bad, does evil, no good for me, I'll get the PS4' instead of all like 'XBox1 POS, fuck you MS, die die die, hate u4eva, PS4 winner'.

So much whining.

Do you see the hypocrisy in your post? You are whining that people voice their opinion in a way you don't approve of. People have the right to say whatever they want, no matter if you like it or not. Why do you care if people say mean things about the Xbox One anyway? They are saying it about the Xbox One in the hope that it will improve it. It's not like they are saying it to you as a person.

[DenVu]

haha that guys voice

[JaeDee884]

 

 

You seem to think that there is only one kind of DRM, and everything with DRM are exactly the same. That's not the case. You can have more annoying kinds of DRM (like Microsoft) or less annoying kinds (like Steam).

 

Actually I was referring to methods including product keys and offline activation. 

YOu're forgetting Steam has the flexability of PC markets, Xbox don't. pointless DRM is bad (ergo EA) good drm, is drm that because of it, you well get benefits.

I'll pick mild DRM that gives heaps of benefits over no DRM and no new features, if you disagree. then don't criticise the platform that others would like and get the competitor. ignoring the fact Consoles on there own are a form of DRM. 

[gauvinic]

Just signed it as Ezio Auditore. I said it will get no "Requiescat Im Pace" from me. I feel no remorse for the suckers that pre-ordered if this becomes reality!

[LAwLz]

1) Really, you don't think maybe that other shops have sales because Steam do? You think Valve has the sales out of the goodness of their heart? To make you feel warm inside. Or maybe it's so they can sell 1000s of copys of games that people would of otherwise not even looked at and hence turn a massive profit?

No, Steam did not invent summer sales as you tries to argue. The online stores I listed were just examples of shops which have summer sales. It doesn't seem like you have seen the Steam summer sales. They do put fairly new AAA games (which are still selling well) on big sales like 50% off. If you look at Microsoft's track record, there is no indication whatsoever that they will do the same.

 

 

2) You were comparing the business model of Steam to MS digital game distribution, trying to make out that MS should have more digital sales. For one they are completely different platforms, servicing different markets, governed by different policies. You said it yourself "Don't compare Valve to Microsoft please."

I was using Valve as an example. A lot of other stores have huge sales as well. You're trying to nitpick and ignores the point I was trying to make. Please don't do that, OK?

 

 

3) Maybe it'll remain the same, maybe it won't. You can speculate as much a I. Point is, chances are, previously a move towards digital games looked like the endgame. One would assume with that there would be more digital sales.

Why would the previous model have more sales of digital than the current one? I don't understand what makes you think it would.

[LAwLz]

Actually I was referring to methods including product keys and offline activation. 

YOu're forgetting Steam has the flexability of PC markets, Xbox don't. pointless DRM is bad (ergo EA) good drm, is drm that because of it, you well get benefits.

I'll pick mild DRM that gives heaps of benefits over no DRM and no new features, if you disagree. then don't criticise the platform that others would like and get the competitor. ignoring the fact Consoles on there own are a form of DRM. 

The games for the Xbox One has a product key, it's just that it's on the disc instead of you having to manually type it in. That's how they could make sure you didn't take the disc and gave it to all your friends.

 

Microsoft could give the Xbox "the flexibility of the PC market" if they wanted, so that's kind of a moot point. So you acknowledge that there are different kinds of DRM. Do you think the Xbox had "mild" or "pointless" DRM, and if it's the former then what benefit does it give you which would be impossible for Microsoft to implement without it?

 

Also, I have the right to criticize it if I want to. Please don't tell people to be silent just because they don't have exactly the same opinion as you do, because that's a horrible thing to do. I don't like the PS4 or the WiiU either by the way, so I won't get any console this generation unless something big happens.

[MetEishYa]

Actually I was referring to methods including product keys and offline activation. 

YOu're forgetting Steam has the flexability of PC markets, Xbox don't. pointless DRM is bad (ergo EA) good drm, is drm that because of it, you well get benefits.

I'll pick mild DRM that gives heaps of benefits over no DRM and no new features, if you disagree. then don't criticise the platform that others would like and get the competitor. ignoring the fact Consoles on there own are a form of DRM. 

The irony in ur comment is the reason Xbox did the 180 WAS because people didn't pre-order as much as they wanted meaning people DID what you said and were going to buy the competitor. You are in the minority that liked the DRM and the majority of people hated it; that's why the got rid of the DRM.

[Vitalius]

If the XB1 does revert, I will be happy. If it doesn't, I will be happy.

Simply because I'm buying a PS4 regardless. And if the XB1 doesn't revert, we (gamers) win because DRM won't be forced down the throats of the people who want an XB1. 

If it does revert, the XB1 sales will plummet (as the Pre-orders did) and PS4 will win this generation easily. 

Win-win. :P Though I'd prefer the first option.

 

And those other people (including yourself) did/do have a choice.

 

Bombshell, it's called a PS4.

People who want the XB1 for exclusives and XBL don't have an option in that. :| Either bend over, or go **** yourself are their options from Microsoft before the 180.

[EChondo]

Actually I was referring to methods including product keys and offline activation. 

YOu're forgetting Steam has the flexability of PC markets, Xbox don't. pointless DRM is bad (ergo EA) good drm, is drm that because of it, you well get benefits.

I'll pick mild DRM that gives heaps of benefits over no DRM and no new features, if you disagree. then don't criticise the platform that others would like and get the competitor. ignoring the fact Consoles on there own are a form of DRM. 

The problem that many of us have here isn't the DRM. It's the fact that we NEED an Internet connection and that Kinect is required.

 

You DO NOT need Internet for the features the Xbox One had before the 180. 

[martinrox1568]

I actually didn't mind it. For several reasons. First of all, everyone on the internet that was bitching about it having to check in every 24 hours shouldn't be, cause They're on the internet BTICHING ABOUT IT. The game sharing was awesome, and i think maybe they could modify the drm a bit, maybe make it check in every 3 days or so. And make it never have to check in for disk based games.

[Vitalius]

I actually didn't mind it. For several reasons. First of all, everyone on the internet that was bitching about it having to check in every 24 hours shouldn't be, cause They're on the internet BTICHING ABOUT IT. The game sharing was awesome, and i think maybe they could modify the drm a bit, maybe make it check in every 3 days or so. And make it never have to check in for disk based games.

It's not the idea of it checking in every 24 hours in a functional way that bothers us.

It's the idea that it has to check in every 24 hours in a principle way that bothers us. 

In other words, it checking in every 24 hours isn't a problem for people who have decent internet. However, it's a problem for people who don't like the idea of being watched like a criminal when they've done nothing wrong to deserve it. Like me. 

Like I said, awesome features, just remove the DRM (checking every 24 hours is DRM) and I'm fine with it.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and call Kinect requirement DRM too since the spirit of that requirement is so that they can see who and what is using the console. Movies and facial recognition being an example. 

The only time that's acceptable is when it's optional (in this case it's not) and it lowers the prices of things accordingly (like Linus said in a live stream, if I could pay $2 per person to watch a movie in theaters at home, that's bawlin'. [paraphrased]) which it doesn't.

All the negatives with barely any positives. 

[SteepGnomeKing]

Any rational non-fanboy would (and did) hate on it.

 

 

1) That "better" system was not needed for buying digital goods at all. Please explain how it was needed if you think I am wrong and that there was no other solution at all.

 

2) This new system let's you share games. It was the old system which didn't let you share games. If my friend wanted to play my game, he would have had to pay Microsoft to do so. With the new system (without the DRM) I can lend the game to him and he can play it. You might not be able to do this with digital downloads anymore but there is no reason why Microsoft can't just add that in as well. No reason whatsoever. Also, a huge keyword here is "test the game". Major Nelson said this regarding the family plan as well, and some posts floating around on the Internet says that by "testing" they meant a 15-45 minute demo of the game, not the full game.

 

It's not about the Internet connection either. It's about always online AS WELL as all the other crap they are trying to pull (mandatory Kinect, as in you are not even allowed to unplug it, no used games and so on). We are not holding back anything by the way, it is Microsoft who is holding it back because they could implement everything they talked about even without the bad things like always online. It's just that they got pissed when people didn't like their decisions so they decided to remove some features as well to split the fanbase into two camps who are arguing among themselves instead of hating on Microsoft.

 

 

A lot of people cared that you needed an Internet connection. Believe it or not, but not everything is exactly 100% like you, and have exactly the same opinions (which is a good thing). Just because you were OK with it does not mean it was the right thing to do, or that everyone else should be OK with it either. You're very egocentric if you think that.

 

Actually, not being a require IS a huge deal, and it matters a lot. You might be OK with being forced to use the things you have bought a certain way, but a lot of other people (including myself) want choice. If we don't want to be connected 24/7 and have a camera connected to the NSA pointed at us at all time, then we should have the choice not to. Choice is always good, so why do not you want choice?

 

This system isn't for buying goods, there is still going to be a digital store on the new consoles. It was not needed for buying the games at all as we see on the current Xbox. But what system I am talking about is the family and friends sharing. Allowing your friends to play your digital games.

 

This is why this topic is hard to talk about. Because they did away with there old system that was not even fully in place and they understood.

 

I don't get the point of arguing over rumours. If so some of them were that if your sharing with a family member you and that person can both play the game at the same time. How awesome is that? But that was just a rumour just like the 15-45 minute demo your listing also. 

 

I know everything isn't exactly like me but everything isn't exactly like you. Not everyone hates the polices Xbox came with. I loved them all.

Mandatory Kinect- good it might get used more is ways we haven't seen yet

always on internet- good why would I ever have it not connected anyways

 

The NSA thing is a bad argument. I don't like having a xbox kinect camera facing me at all times. But my phone has 2 camera and a microphone that are always on and can be activated by third party. Why is one ok but the other isn't.

 

His own opinions? He asked questions from the fans, and I think the questions were really good. It was Nelson who lost his shit and got angry, took the mic away from Joe and started talking bullshit about "do you want to live in the future" instead of answering the questions honestly.

 

Not the questions but the way he was interrupting constantly whenever it wasn't the answer he wanted. Interviews do need to change because a lot of the times we get answers that don't answer the question but you simple re ask the question or word it differently not interrupt them and say they are wrong.

[JordanMac]

after 2 180's they might as well call it the 360... oh wait.

[LAwLz]

This system isn't for buying goods, there is still going to be a digital store on the new consoles. It was not needed for buying the games at all as we see on the current Xbox. But what system I am talking about is the family and friends sharing. Allowing your friends to play your digital games.

 

This is why this topic is hard to talk about. Because they did away with there old system that was not even fully in place and they understood.

We don't even know how the family sharing (again, it was not for friends, it was for family only, and then they had some system for lending the game to a friend, as in one person) worked or what restrictions it had. It seems like it was just a demo your family could play, in which case this non-DRM Xbone is better because now your family can play the whole game, instead of a 15 minute demo. Sure you might not be able to play it at the same time, but do you rather be able to play it at the same time for 15 minutes, or not at the same time, but unlimited time? It's a very easy choice if you ask me. There isn't really any reason why they can't implement this again, without going back to the old and horrible DRM. Ask them to put that feature in again, don't ask them to go back to the original DRM mechanic because that's simply not needed.

 

 

I know everything isn't exactly like me but everything isn't exactly like you. Not everyone hates the polices Xbox came with. I loved them all.

Not everyone is like me, but it seems like the majority of people is like me. Not saying that it makes me more right, but it does mean that this new policy is best for the majority of users.

 

 

 

Mandatory Kinect- good it might get used more is ways we haven't seen yet

I highly doubt that it will be used in any meaningful way. Maybe for some gimmicks in some games like the original Kinect but that's about it. Most games will be cross platform so they can't have any game changing feature which relies on Kinect (yes that does include Battlefield 4). Why not make the Kinect an optional extra? People would buy it if people wanted it. Microsoft knows people don't want it, which is why they mandate it. It's the same with the Windows 8 start screen. They know people don't want it, but they want people to develop Metro apps so they force everyone to use it anyway. It's exactly the same with the Kinect. Kinect for the Xbox One is just like the Metro start screen in Windows 8 on desktops.

 

 

always on internet- good why would I ever have it not connected anyways

How is it good? What does it bring to the table? It's just another restriction for no reason. You can't say "it doesn't hurt me, so therefore it is good". Something is good if it is desired and/or approved of. Did you ever think "damn I wish my Xbox 360 would stop working if I didn't have it call home to Microsoft every 24 hour (or 2 hours or whatever if your friend is over and wants to play with his account)"?

 

 

The NSA thing is a bad argument. I don't like having a xbox kinect camera facing me at all times. But my phone has 2 camera and a microphone that are always on and can be activated by third party. Why is one ok but the other isn't.

Well I am not sure about your phone, but my phone runs open source software so it does not contain any kind of spying software. I also have to give permission to apps in order for them to use cameras and/or microphones. So no, I don't think it is OK for my phone to do things without my consent.

 

Not the questions but the way he was interrupting constantly whenever it wasn't the answer he wanted. Interviews do need to change because a lot of the times we get answers that don't answer the question but you simple re ask the question or word it differently not interrupt them and say they are wrong.

I didn't see that much interruption from Joe. Nelson interrupts just as much if not more. Nelson dodges a lot of questions though, and Joe does push the question again to get answers but instead of real answers we got bullshit like "do you want to go into the future with me!?".

[EChondo]

I actually didn't mind it. For several reasons. First of all, everyone on the internet that was bitching about it having to check in every 24 hours shouldn't be, cause They're on the internet BTICHING ABOUT IT. The game sharing was awesome, and i think maybe they could modify the drm a bit, maybe make it check in every 3 days or so. And make it never have to check in for disk based games.

So you like the idea of Microsoft having the ability to shut down Xbox Live's servers at any time rendering your game console and games useless? You like the idea of not being able to play Xbox One games in 15 years when online gets shut down? Don't even say emulators, we are a LONG way from emulating ANYTHING with a x86 architecture.

I still play my N64, Linus and Slick still "dust off" their NES games every Friday.

Also, it's disc.

[Guest]

Can you lot please stop calling out each other for trolling and play nice otherwise there will be consequences. 

[martinrox1568]

So you like the idea of Microsoft having the ability to shut down Xbox Live's servers at any time rendering your game console and games useless? You like the idea of not being able to play Xbox One games in 15 years when online gets shut down? Don't even say emulators, we are a LONG way from emulating ANYTHING with a x86 architecture.

I still play my N64, Linus and Slick still "dust off" their NES games every Friday.

Also, it's disc.

 But why would they do that???Microsoft isn't evil. No big profit company really is(even EA lol) . All they want is your money and positive publicity. If they choose to shut down their servers at one point, 500 million people are going to bitch about it, and no one is going to buy the next xbox. That would be the stupidest thing microsoft could do as they would then lose money. There is no conspiracy theory going on here, it is just Microsoft trying to make money

[martinrox1568]

It's not the idea of it checking in every 24 hours in a functional way that bothers us.

It's the idea that it has to check in every 24 hours in a principle way that bothers us. 

In other words, it checking in every 24 hours isn't a problem for people who have decent internet. However, it's a problem for people who don't like the idea of being watched like a criminal when they've done nothing wrong to deserve it. Like me. 

Like I said, awesome features, just remove the DRM (checking every 24 hours is DRM) and I'm fine with it.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and call Kinect requirement DRM too since the spirit of that requirement is so that they can see who and what is using the console. Movies and facial recognition being an example. 

The only time that's acceptable is when it's optional (in this case it's not) and it lowers the prices of things accordingly (like Linus said in a live stream, if I could pay $2 per person to watch a movie in theaters at home, that's bawlin'. [paraphrased]) which it doesn't.

All the negatives with barely any positives. 

 

But Microsoft isn't going to be watching you. DO you think that they have the resources to watch every person who has an xbox? Sure, the footage might be somewhere in some servers, but even then it won't be used. There is no way that anyone will ever even see you from the kinect. And if they made it optional, devs wouldn't code for it as most people won't buy it separately. 

[EChondo]

 But why would they do that???Microsoft isn't evil. No big profit company really is(even EA lol) . All they want is your money and positive publicity. If they choose to shut down their servers at one point, 500 million people are going to bitch about it, and no one is going to buy the next xbox. That would be the stupidest thing microsoft could do as they would then lose money. There is no conspiracy theory going on here, it is just Microsoft trying to make money

In 10 years from now, when the Xbox One is getting close to the end of its life cycle, they can shut off the servers and then you will HAVE TO buy the next Xbox. That's the level of control they would have had if they kept the digital DRM. Sure, they probably won't do that, but I doubt they are going to keep their servers up forever, at one point they will have to shut down the Xbox Live servers for older consoles, and when that happens I want to be able to play my video games that I bought.

 

But Microsoft isn't going to be watching you. DO you think that they have the resources to watch every person who has an xbox? Sure, the footage might be somewhere in some servers, but even then it won't be used. There is no way that anyone will ever even see you from the kinect. And if they made it optional, devs wouldn't code for it as most people won't buy it separately. 

It doesn't matter if they are going to watch us or not, it's the fact that they have the ABILITY to do so. Also it doesn't help that they are giving backdoors to everyone from the Government for every single service they provide.

 

If people don't want the Kinect, forcing it on them will make it worse. If you force someone to use or do something, they will not want to do it and you will get a bad reputation for doing so.

[LAwLz]

 But why would they do that???Microsoft isn't evil. No big profit company really is(even EA lol) . All they want is your money and positive publicity. If they choose to shut down their servers at one point, 500 million people are going to bitch about it, and no one is going to buy the next xbox. That would be the stupidest thing microsoft could do as they would then lose money. There is no conspiracy theory going on here, it is just Microsoft trying to make money

You do know that they did shut down the original Xbox servers quite a while ago, right? You can no longer play any original Xbox game online. You can still play them in single player, but if it had been the Xbox One with the original DRM then you wouldn't have been able to play ANY games on it at all. This isn't some paranoia thing, it is already reality. They should not have the power to render all consoles unusable with a push of a button, because they will use it sooner or later (when they want people to buy the Xbox 2). You're very naive if you think that's far fetched. It won't happen right now, but it could easily happen in 15 years or so (when they want people to change to the Xbox 2, and the Xbox One isn't that popular anymore).

[rhoscrazy]

I want them to revert. They had the balls to try and advance, and now we are back to the prehistoric ways of the Xbox 360 and before. Needless to say I will not be purchasing the system unless they revert, I certainly would never pre-order something without knowing the final build and features... I am not stupid.

[LAwLz]

But Microsoft isn't going to be watching you. DO you think that they have the resources to watch every person who has an xbox? Sure, the footage might be somewhere in some servers, but even then it won't be used. There is no way that anyone will ever even see you from the kinect. And if they made it optional, devs wouldn't code for it as most people won't buy it separately. 

Actually, they do have the resources to do this, and they have the technology to use it. Think of it this way. If the NSA for some reason think you have done something illegal, then they can monitor your house 24/7 with a camera that can even see in the dark. You can be completely innocent, but they can still monitor you 24/7 if they want to. How do you know the footage won't be used if it's in a server?

 

Why would having the Kinect as an option be a bad thing? If people really wanted it, then they would buy it and developers would code for it. The only reason why developers would ignore it if it was a separate item would be if barely anyone bought it, and that would mean that people don't want it, so why force everyone to get one? It doesn't make any sense.