U.S. Supreme court overturns anti gay marriage laws.

[mr moose]

Doh! I should've known. I need to learn how to interpret internet sarcasm/rippings better lol

 

I know its hard, we need a definitive smiley face that indicates sarcasm.

[Lyons]

 

snip

 

"most of us are good people". Define "good". Does that definition have lying, cheating, stealing, or selfish in them? If yes, alrighty then. If no, I'd say that statement is wrong.

 

Good is clearly subjective, but what I mean is good compared to before religion. Western people are for the most part not barbaric lunatics who behead others for insulting their shoes or calling out someone's family. This isn't medieval Europe. We have laws now. We have morals, and they certainly aren't founded in religion. You know how I know? Because I, and thousands of other are atheists, and the majority of us are 'good' people, most of the time demonstrating more civil and logical behaviour than religious people.

 

You act like humans don't change over time. Let's say you are right, and religion did indeed disappear. How long do you think it'd take for us to deteriorate from our current state? A generation?

 

What? No. I said that religion has changed us, meaning humans have undergone a demonstrated change. We wouldn't deteriorate from out current state, like I said, we have laws and real personal morals. I'd like to think our morals and values are founded via discussion and rationality in opposition to suffering, not founded in a 3500 year old book. Ask ANY religious person, ask yourself; would I go out and rape somebody if I wasn't religious tomorrow?

"what about all the wasted minds that will never amount to any scientific contributions" Wasted implies they are worthless. Regardless of what a person has or has not done or is, I feel the need to take issue with them being called worthless. 

 

Again, misreading what I said on purpose. Did I say worthless? No. I said the exact opposite. That mind HAS worth. It COULD have been used for greater, but it won't purely because of a coincidence.

 

As for the God did it thing, well, sure He did, but understanding how or what He did isn't covered by that. Like, all the stuff science explores. How the universe "works" basically. Saying "God did it" or "God spoke and it was." doesn't mean we can't explore that. I actively seek to understand whatever I can about how things work (mechanical engineer after all) simply because I love to know. That doesn't take away from God doing it or anything similar imo.

 

God did it? Prove it! Hard mode: the bible doesn't count as evidence.

 

Mind you, for most things, I prefer to only cover the concepts and never touch the finer details. Only understanding the how and not the what. I can't do the math, but I can explain it, basically. But that's just because I only care to know the how and not the what.

 

Suit yourself.

 

 

 

You sound blind, to be frank. You really do, which is very unfortunate.

[Vitalius]

I was saying that the words of the bible are considered the words of god himself therefore the misinformation in the bible shows that god is misinformed therefore not omni-everything. That's what i was getting at. I didn't have much time to type out something long so i decided to shorten it the best i could. Sorry it wasn't to your liking but then again it seems no amount of anything will because of your FAITH. Faith is a very dishonest position but it is required to believe any bit of religious nonsense so using faith in an argument that was steered toward logic means the argument is rendered moot. MY argument was based on facts that i presented that are found within the bible but the moment you said you believe something on faith it is an easy way out of a logical argument. You don't have to prove anything that is based on faith and that's why it is dishonest. So I declare this argument un-finish-able due to fowl play. My argument was not circular i was stating that the bible is the word of god therefore must be indicative of gods character. There are things that are factually wrong in the bible that show that it was not written nor directly inspired by god but written by bronze age goat herders that believe in ridiculous things like talking animals and slavery. Either you have a really stupid god or it's a man made creation. Now there is no evidence for such a deity so the logical answer must be man. However given that you aren't always prone to logical answers I guess I'm wrong too according to your faith. 

 

Psalms 18:30,

"As for God, His way is perfect;

The word of the Lord is proven;

He is a shield to all who trust in Him."

Redefine what you say all you want, it makes no sense.

I don't think there is such a thing as homophobia, I think it is more a jealousy thing.   Thinking about it,  when you are gay you can like whatever color you want, you don't have to pretend to be macho and keep up appearances, you are allowed to have emotions and you don't need a motorcycle to wear leather.  Plus you can't accidentally bring a child into the world and fuck it up with regrets.   Yep anyone who hates gays are just jealous.

 

I would actually disagree with that as I consider myself to have it. :P

1. Good is clearly subjective, but what I mean is good compared to before religion. Western people are for the most part not barbaric lunatics who behead others for insulting their shoes or calling out someone's family. This isn't medieval Europe. We have laws now. We have morals, and they certainly aren't founded in religion. You know how I know? Because I, and thousands of other are atheists, and the majority of us are 'good' people, most of the time demonstrating more civil and logical behaviour than religious people.

    

2. What? No. I said that religion has changed us, meaning humans have undergone a demonstrated change. We wouldn't deteriorate from out current state, like I said, we have laws and real personal morals. I'd like to think our morals and values are founded via discussion and rationality in opposition to suffering, not founded in a 3500 year old book. Ask ANY religious person, ask yourself; would I go out and rape somebody if I wasn't religious tomorrow?

    

3. Again, misreading what I said on purpose. Did I say worthless? No. I said the exact opposite. That mind HAS worth. It COULD have been used for greater, but it won't purely because of a coincidence.

    

4. God did it? Prove it! Hard mode: the bible doesn't count as evidence.

    

5. Suit yourself.

    

6. You sound blind, to be frank. You really do, which is very unfortunate.

1. Logical behavior doesn't necessarily mean Good.

    

2. Just because you won't doesn't mean your grandchildren won't. That sounds similar to a slippery slope argument, but the nature of things that aren't upkept is that they deteriorate. There's a reason this generation is called the "me" generation along with many other stereotypes about their behavior I wouldn't think to be considered "good". 

    

3. Wasted implies worthless. Just because it has potential worth in your eyes doesn't mean it has worth as it isn't realizing that potential (based on how you said it). In other words, you are basically saying "if they worked towards scientific advancement, they have worth. If they don't, they are wasted potential (essentially saying the same thing as they are worthless without saying it that way)."

    

4. 
5. I will indeed. I only have so much time in life. I'd rather spend it on things that will actually matter to me versus learning about things I will likely never encounter. I consider the concepts awesome and beautiful, but learning the finer details, to me, is only worthwhile in the mechanical, straightforward sense. In that I should only do it if I need it for something. Not for the sake of simply learning. 
6. Well, all I say and do usually comes from using logic and reason to discern what is the best right choice for me. This is all a result of that. Though I'm beginning to question if staying in this thread any longer has a point, as it does what most threads like this do: Deteriorate to a point of pointlessness.

[Lyons]

"As for God, His way is perfect;

The word of the Lord is proven;

He is a shield to all who trust in Him."

 

Says who, a book?

How old is the earth?

Who and what did we evolve from?

What makes your book more true or relevant than my book?

Is that all you have as evidence?

What makes god perfect when he supposedly killed so many people?

Who puts a shield around my undeserving Christian family members when they become terminally ill or die as circumstance to an accident?

Was their death and the re-percussive widespread grief among their loved ones all part of god's plan?

Do they go to hell because they have 'sinned' and haven't been saved?

Why should I have to tell my children that their grandparents or even themselves will suffer for eternity for a simple sin?

 

Sorry, nah. It's time for everyone to grow up.

[Vitalius]

Says who? A book? What makes your book more true or relevant than my book? Is that all you have as evidence? What makes god perfect when he supposedly killed so many people? Who puts a shield around my undeserving Christian family members when they become terminally ill or die as circumstance to an accident? Was their death and the re-percussive widespread grief among their loved ones all part of god's plan? Do they go to hell because they have 'sinned' and haven't been saved? Why should I have to tell my children that their grandparents will suffer for eternity? Sorry, nah.

You seem to have completely missed the post (it was on the last page or so) where I stopped taking Beeb seriously and started responding with the stereotypical (at least imo) way Christians are portrayed on the internet.

That was in response to him.

Yet again.

Says a book that I take on Faith and find, based on my personal experiences, to fully coincide with God as I've experienced Him. 

Isaiah 57:15,

"For thus says the high and lofty One—He Who inhabits eternity, Whose name is Holy: I dwell in the high and holy place, but with him also who is of a thoroughly penitent and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble and to revive the heart of the thoroughly penitent [bruised with sorrow for sin]."

 

 

• Says who, a book?
• How old is the earth?
• Who and what did we evolve from?
• What makes your book more true or relevant than my book?
• Is that all you have as evidence?
• What makes god perfect when he supposedly killed so many people?
• Who puts a shield around my undeserving Christian family members when they become terminally ill or die as circumstance to an accident?
• Was their death and the re-percussive widespread grief among their loved ones all part of god's plan?
• Do they go to hell because they have 'sinned' and haven't been saved?
• Why should I have to tell my children that their grandparents or even themselves will suffer for eternity for a simple sin?

Sorry, nah. It's time for everyone to grow up.

 

Nice edit.

• Already said above.
• Nothing is definitive scientifically, you missed that conversation. I believe it's around page 20-24.
• Same thing as 2.
• Nothing beyond Faith and personal experience.
• It's not evidence, and I don't claim to have any beyond what I mention in 4.
• He's God. He is the "barometer" for what is right, and thereby, can't do wrong. We are His. We owe Him all that we are. If He is to kill us, He is simply taking back what is His. How is that wrong? He also promises to be good and His promises are never forgotten or false (taken from personal experience). 
• The same God that does around my own.
• I would imagine Yes, but who am I to claim to know God's plan?
• Not sure. That's between them and God.
• You shouldn't since you wouldn't know.

Is it to really devolve to name calling (you are basically calling us children and implying naievity).

And from this, I'm going with my "not taking you seriously" choice that I did with Beeb. As, imo, your comments seem to be based upon a somewhat hatred of religion or something equivalent that no amount of reason will change. 

Was fun talking with you, but only respond if you want to read the Bible. :)

[Lyons]

You seem to have completely missed the post (it was on the last page or so) where I stopped taking Beeb seriously and started responding with the stereotypical (at least imo) way Christians are portrayed on the internet.

That was in response to him.

Yet again.

Says a book that I take on Faith and find, based on my personal experiences, to fully coincide with God as I've experienced Him. 

Isaiah 57:15,

"For thus says the high and lofty One—He Who inhabits eternity, Whose name is Holy: I dwell in the high and holy place, but with him also who is of a thoroughly penitent and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble and to revive the heart of the thoroughly penitent [bruised with sorrow for sin]."

 

You seem to have missed all but one question I asked you. This isn't strawman at all, I'm just asking you genuine questions.

[Lyons]

You seem to have completely missed the post (it was on the last page or so) where I stopped taking Beeb seriously and started responding with the stereotypical (at least imo) way Christians are portrayed on the internet.

That was in response to him.

Yet again.

Says a book that I take on Faith and find, based on my personal experiences, to fully coincide with God as I've experienced Him. 

Isaiah 57:15,

"For thus says the high and lofty One—He Who inhabits eternity, Whose name is Holy: I dwell in the high and holy place, but with him also who is of a thoroughly penitent and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble and to revive the heart of the thoroughly penitent [bruised with sorrow for sin]."

 

Nice edit.

• Already said above.
• Nothing is definitive scientifically, you missed that conversation. I believe it's around page 20-24.
• Same thing as 2.
• Nothing beyond Faith and personal experience.
• It's not evidence, and I don't claim to have any beyond what I mention in 4.
• He's God. He is the "barometer" for what is right, and thereby, can't do wrong. We are His. We owe Him all that we are. If He is to kill us, He is simply taking back what is His. How is that wrong? He also promises to be good and His promises are never forgotten or false (taken from personal experience). 
• The same God that does around my own.
• I would imagine Yes, but who am I to claim to know God's plan?
• Not sure. That's between them and God.
• You shouldn't since you wouldn't know.

Is it to really devolve to name calling (you are basically calling us children and implying naievity).

And from this, I'm going with my "not taking you seriously" choice that I did with Beeb. As, imo, your comments seem to be based upon a somewhat hatred of religion or something equivalent that no amount of reason will change. 

Was fun talking with you, but only respond if you want to read the Bible. :)

 

This in my opinion is a very unfortunate way of living. If you don't want to take me seriously, fine, but don't expect anyone to take YOU seriously when you live like that.

 

Godless and free, that's the way I want to be. My feelings essentially mirror exactly what Pat Condell says here. It's madness.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjZ-lSn0A3M

 

Edit: You do a damn good job of putting words in my mouth.

[FireFox]

It was in Full Metal Jacket, also.

 

Shit you're right, I saw that the otherday :)

[Vitalius]

This in my opinion is a very unfortunate way of living. If you don't want to take me seriously, fine, but don't expect anyone to take YOU seriously when you live like that.

 

Godless and free, that's the way I want to be. My feelings essentially mirror exactly what Pat Condell says here. It's madness.

 

Edit: You do a damn good job of putting words in my mouth.

I can't take you seriously if every time you talk, what you say implies that you or your opinion is automatically superior. Calling other children (by saying everyone should grow up) is an example of doing that.

You are just trading one master for another imo when you do that. 

I only take what words come out of your mouth and look at not only what they say, but what they imply. How you talk is just as important as what you say. Though this is the internet and just text, more can be derived from a sentence than what that sentence explicitly says.

Galatians 5:13,

"1 For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [a]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another."

[Lyons]

I can't take you seriously if every time you talk, what you say implies that you or your opinion is automatically superior. Calling other children (by saying everyone should grow up) is an example of doing that.

You are just trading one master for another imo when you do that. 

I only take what words come out of your mouth and look at not only what they say, but what they imply. How you talk is just as important as what you say. Though this is the internet and just text, more can be derived from a sentence than what that sentence explicitly says.

Galatians 5:13,

"1 For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [a]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another."

 

When did I ever imply anything? Just read the words I am writing. 'Grow up' refers to an immature state of being and belief, which in fact CAN be described as childish. Heard of Santa? Heard of the tooth fairy? The god of the Bible is analogous to these fictional characters. I bet you didn't even watch the video. Oh well, you can lead a horse to water....

[Vitalius]

When did I ever imply anything? Just read the words I am writing. 'Grow up' refers to an immature state of being and belief, which in fact CAN be described as childish. Heard of Santa? Heard of the tooth fairy? The god of the Bible is analogous to these fictional characters. I bet you didn't even watch the video. Oh well, you can lead a horse to water....

You are just proving my point.

:|

[Lyons]

You are just proving my point.

:|

 

Absolutely not. Even if I was, so what? How could you possibly refute what I'm saying? I'm free, you're not, yay for me  :)

[Vitalius]

Absolutely not. Even if I was, so what? How could you possibly refute what I'm saying? I'm free, you're not, yay for me  :)

Well, my point was that everything you've said has had an air of "I'm better than you" or "How I see things are better than how you see things" or something equivalent. The "immature" comment just drove this point home.

So long as you act like that, I have nothing to say because I know from experience there is nothing to say. Which is why I don't take you or this seriously. Even if I did, nothing would come of it.

You keep using wording that also implies you want me to play the game by your rules. Not interested, for the same reasons. 

Isaiah 43:8,

"Bring out the people who are blind, yet have eyes, who are deaf, yet have ears!" 

Romans 8:7-8,

"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

If you are wondering why we should want or need to "submit to God's law", it is because not doing so will only end in death and destruction. Regardless of God punishing anyone, nothing can exist that is devoid of Him because He is existence Himself. If you wonder then why any atheist might exist, it's because, as the Bible says using a parable, (paraphrased) "God makes the rain fall on both the unbeliever and the believer." He blesses both. The only thing believing changes is how long that will last. 

My God is good and perfect as I have seen Him to be. He set me free from a chained and broken heart, and I will never turn from Him for this very reason. He was made real to me from some of my earliest memories. Back when I didn't know Him as "God". 

I could no more deny His existence than I could my mother or father's. Or my own. 

But I'm sure that's all obviously how I see things based on all I've said up to this point.

[Lyons]

snip

 

There is no game, there is only truth, there are only facts. I would understand being religious 100 or more years ago, but not today. It has no merit. No proof.

 

If you are wondering why we should want or need to "submit to God's law", it is because not doing so will only end in death and destruction.

 

And you're going to tell your children that? That they will burn for eternity if they don't submit to the word of a book and that the universe was created by divine means? I sincerely hope you give them choice and not force them into a life of constriction and rather let them interpret the world and make decisions for themselves.

 

My God is good and perfect

 

He sure lets a lot of bad things happen to good people. There are many things that make your god imperfect.

 

"Bring out the people who are blind, yet have eyes, who are deaf, yet have ears!" 

 

Can't see the evidence. Can't see the proof. Can't see the reason, Can't understand. I MUST be blind.

 

I DO NOT see myself as superior to any other. I do however see a lifestyle of freedom and free will to be superior, a life of which is a life can not be had while underneath a monotheistic obeisance. I go by the facts. The facts are good enough for everyone, have a little faith  ;)

 

Edit:

 

[Vitalius]

There is no game, there is only truth, there are only facts. I would understand being religious 100 or more years ago, but not today. It has no merit. No proof.

• And you're going to tell your children that? That they will burn for eternity if they don't submit to the word of a book and that the universe was created by divine means? I sincerely hope you give them choice and not force them into a life of constriction and rather let them interpret the world and make decisions for themselves.
• My God is good and perfect

  He sure lets a lot of bad things happen to good people. There are many things that make your god imperfect.

• "Bring out the people who are blind, yet have eyes, who are deaf, yet have ears!"

  Can't see the evidence. Can't see the proof. Can't see the reason, Can't understand. I MUST be blind.

• I DO NOT see myself as superior to any other. I do however see a lifestyle of freedom and free will to be superior, a life of which is a life can not be had while underneath a monotheistic obeisance. I go by the facts. The facts are good enough for everyone, have a little faith ;)

Not for you, it doesn't. But are you humanity? All of us? Can you truly speak for our entire lives? To deny all that we have seen? ... Simply, Are you God?

• Yes. Because I don't want them to die. The same way I might tell them not to stick a penny in a light socket or their hand in a fire.

   

• Things you deem bad to people you deem good. The premise of God is that He is all knowing. That He can see what they've done, and what they would do or what will/would happen to them. Again, are you God? Do you have every single possible piece of information to judge His actions as evil and those people as good?

  That's part of what Faith is for. Based on all we've seen Him do (Creation), along with what's been done in our lives, we trust Him to be doing all this for our good. As the Bible says He does.

  I have no absolute answer for why bad things happen to good people, or why God does the things He does. I can only trust Him based on all I've seen Him do, and all of it is good.

   

• Yes, quite. I would guess you've blinded yourself to the things that would convince you of God's goodness and existence. I've been in that situation before. What lead me out of it was simply faith.

   

• Then don't call others children as this implies you aren't one. I see that as superior as well, when it's real. And I don't consider yours real. In that yours isn't free.

  I'm free. I'm under Monotheistic obedience. I suppose there's not much else to say about that since we won't agree the other is 'free'. Freedom isn't doing whatever you want/desire to do. Freedom is living a life without being restrained by worry, regrets, or lacking a choice in things that hurt you (succumbing to the flesh).

  They aren't nor ever were good enough for me. No amount of explanation or knowledge makes evil alright. Nor does it right any wrongs. Explanations don't heal broken hearts, and it doesn't bring back the dead. All they do is give reason, and reason isn't good enough for any of those things.

  What gives faith it's power is what it is in. God gives faith in Him power. Faith in a godless life will be useless or only as powerful as the being it's in and if it's in humanity, it will fail because humans are fallible, imperfect, and finite.

   

This is starting to lead into the topics that define my testimony (my explanation/story of how I came to know God). If you want to know why I am the way I am, I'd be happy to tell it. But I'll let you decide.

About that video. I can't watch it as I'm at work (I'm an IT guy, I usually don't do anything unless something breaks, and nothing has broken. This is why I can stalk the forums for large portions of the day.) and my computers lack speakers (I'm an intern, I get the hand-me-downs). No headphones either and I can't read lips.

I'll watch it when I get home (8-9 hours from now). Warning: That may be wrong. I may go directly to sleep after getting home, in which case it's be more like 16 hours from now. I have to sleep sometime. lol

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

Are people going to shut up about it now? Im sick of having it rammed down my throat and pretty much being forced to agree with it. Its disgusting.

 

Cant wait for cannabis to be legalised either so that people degenerate drug addicts can shut up about that.

[Vitalius]

Are people going to shut up about it now? Im sick of having it rammed down my throat and pretty much being forced to agree with it. Its disgusting.

Cant wait for cannabis to be legalised either so that people degenerate drug addicts can shut up about that.

Dat name.

Dat comment.

Ugh, it is so awesomely stereotypical. I love it (I love stereotypes being true. Probably because it makes dealing with people easier).

I assume the "ramming it down my throat" part was a joke... :P Considering the topic.

Overall consideration of comment (imo of course):

Quality: 5/10

Humor: 9/10

Originality: 6.5/10

Overall: 8/10 (humor is a big thing for me, it's weighted different).

[beebskadoo]

I'm going to take a tip from Vitalius and start quoting fictitious books.

“Dumbledore watched her fly away, and as her silvery glow faded he turned back to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears.
"After all this time?"
"Always," said Snape.” 
― J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

O Krishna, I have heard from You in detail about the origin and dissolution of beings, and Your imperishable glory. The Bhagavad Gita

 

Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately raven of the saintly days of yore;
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door —
Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door —
Perched, and sat, and nothing more.    The Raven

 

Yay for fictitious works that were written by people :)

 

Now children can't we play nice?

 

 

 

 

 

[obsidian1200]

 

I'm going to take a tip from Vitalius and start quoting fictitious books.

“Dumbledore watched her fly away, and as her silvery glow faded he turned back to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears.

"After all this time?"

"Always," said Snape.” 

― J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

*snip*

 

Now children can't we play nice?

I actually work with people who would probably quote Harry Potter for moral lessons before the Bible (it's more creepy than it sounds). Not because they're atheists; they're just really into Harry Potter.

 

On that note, I've had difficulty understanding how people came to generally accept the Bible as it is, seeing as how God didn't translate it through language barriers, how God doesn't run the presses that print the book, nor does God oversee what specifically gets printed (if he did, we wouldn't have so many versions/additions). People have always been in charge of the publication, interpretation, distribution, and possibly omissions or later additions to the Bible. Heck, even Thomas Jefferson, a founding father of the USA, created his own version of the Bible where he omitted the mythos present in the original book he based his version on.

[beebskadoo]

I actually work with people who would probably quote Harry Potter for moral lessons before the Bible (it's more creepy than it sounds). Not because they're atheists; they're just really into Harry Potter.

 

On that note, I've had difficulty understanding how people came to generally accept the Bible as it is, seeing as how God didn't translate it through language barriers, how God doesn't run the presses that print the book, nor does God oversee what specifically gets printed (if he did, we wouldn't have so many versions/additions). People have always been in charge of the publication, interpretation, distribution, and possibly omissions or later additions to the Bible. Heck, even Thomas Jefferson, a founding father of the USA, created his own version of the Bible where he omitted the mythos present in the original book he based his version on.

well my friend its a little thing called faith. Faith is as i have mentioned before a very dishonest that doesn't hold anyone accountable. See most Christians have faith that there bible states exactly what god wants it to. unless you are Vitalius that blames all of the evil shit in the bible on their lack of understanding of god. but we have beat that to a pulp. But i would consider secular morality superior due to it's ability to change rather than be stagnant like something the bible states. I.e. slavery, rape, torture, genocide, a master race mentality, etc.

we can go on and on and on but it wont convince any of us because we all think we are right. Well i guess we will find out when we die who is right. The Zoroastrians could be right and we would be all fucked :) that'll be a fun day i suppose.

[obsidian1200]

well my friend its a little thing called faith. Faith is as i have mentioned before a very dishonest that doesn't hold anyone accountable. See most Christians have faith that there bible states exactly what god wants it to. unless you are Vitalius that blames all of the evil shit in the bible on their lack of understanding of god. but we have beat that to a pulp. But i would consider secular morality superior due to it's ability to change rather than be stagnant like something the bible states. I.e. slavery, rape, torture, genocide, a master race mentality, etc.

we can go on and on and on but it wont convince any of us because we all think we are right. Well i guess we will find out when we die who is right. The Zoroastrians could be right and we would be all fucked :) that'll be a fun day i suppose.

I understand that much lol but I guess I can't see why people would have so much faith in a book printed and maintained by other people. And I'm not speaking as an atheist, so the idea of faith isn't one that escapes me. It's more the object the faith is based on that makes little sense to me.

 

I do agree with you. This thread has been of great interest to me so far, and I've kept up on it ever since it was created. It appears that any further attempts for either of you to convince the other of the validity of their positions would be fruitless for you two, although I've enjoyed reading the debates over the last several days.

[beebskadoo]

I understand that much lol but I guess I can't see why people would have so much faith in a book printed and maintained by other people. And I'm not speaking as an atheist, so the idea of faith isn't one that escapes me. It's more the object the faith is based on that makes little sense to me.

 

I do agree with you. This thread has been of great interest to me so far, and I've kept up on it ever since it was created. It appears that any further attempts for either of you to convince the other of the validity of their positions would be fruitless for you two, although I've enjoyed reading the debates over the last several days.

Yeah i guess it's a battle against someone who knows what the bible says from cover to cover and knows the similarities to religions that predate Judaism by centuries and someone who claims to have knowledge straight from divinity even though what he has demonstrated is just knowledge of what the scriptures say (knowledge that i also posses but yet i claim no divine inspiration for) it's always the same thing ( claiming to hear from god) even though some things he says are contradictory to things other 'divinely inspired' Christians have been 'revealed' 

Shit this god fellow is fairly inconsistent, sort of like humans.....

[obsidian1200]

Shit this god fellow is fairly inconsistent, sort of like humans.....

Wasn't it always that the Christian god created humans in his own image? Unless that's changed, I guess your statement would be correct.

[beebskadoo]

Wasn't it always that the Christian god created humans in his own image? Unless that's changed, I guess your statement would be correct.

Not just Christians, most middle-eastern religions believe the same sort of thing in one way or another. 

Do you find something factually wrong with my statement?

[obsidian1200]

Not just Christians, most middle-eastern religions believe the same sort of thing in one way or another.

Do you find something factually wrong with my statement?

Not at all, I just wanted to specify which interpretation of god I was referring to and made it too specific. If you're referring to the statement that followed that, I did not mean that to imply you were incorrect, as I'm sure you were. I am aware, though, that religions have a tendency to move their goal posts from time to time, but having been ostracized from many churches in my lifetime (Christian, Catholic, and excommunicated from the Mormon church), I've had little inclination to study their books and keep up to date, so I'm not sure how relevant some of my statements regarding those institutions may be.

I interned for a Christian-church-based publishing company and they published children's books that depicted Jesus riding dinosaurs to revisit the Garden of Eden. This is just one example that I can confidently put forth in regards to religious institutions changing their facts/mysticism based on facts uncovered throughout the ages.