U.S. Supreme court overturns anti gay marriage laws.

[beebskadoo]

You can ask @Vitalius that very question and I'd be willing to bet that he'd want black people, women and gays to have equal rights in America just as much as you do. It's more or less the afterlife he's more concerned with for homosexuals, I believe. His past posts have even reflected this many times but it keeps getting ignored and instead he gets called on his belief system and faith of God. Yes, his belief system doesn't favor gay people but surely he'd fight for your right given the chance. I just don't see him as one of those "God hates fags" kind of Christian. Instead, he seems like more of an American than a Christian to me.

 

I myself feel the same way as you do. Equality all around. When it comes to religion though, well that's up to you as an individual.

I was making it a point to make a generalized statement and to not single anyone out. Vitalius believes homosexuals have the same rights as straight people as long as they wed someone of the opposite sex. The same views Michelle Bachman has on the subject. What I was getting at is Christian fundamentalists have been the bane of social change in this country and it hasn't changed really. The Major opponents of The rights of black people were right leaning fundamentalist Christians. The same type of majority that are against the rights of homosexuals, I was making that correlation. 

[beebskadoo]

Thank you Bleedman. I'm glad someone noticed.

Keep in mind i wasn't calling you a homophobe or calling you a bigot. I understand you have the ability to feel empathy. I was trying to explain my views on whether we should believe what the bible says or not because of how ridiculous a lot of it is. 

[Vitalius]

Not to play devil's advocate here (well, maybe a little), does the bolded part of your statement call into the validity of the various perceptions of a "God" and which one is the "true" God? If true freedom is an idea that transcends human perception, then how is the "true" God, an idea/entity much more vast than freedom, any different?

 

Basically, what's to stop someone else's perception of spirituality from invalidating another? It's a viscous circle that never ceases in invalidating the views of others, imo.

 

Well, in that case we are essentially using logic/reason to attempt to discern what the true freedom or view really is that is devoid of human perception and possibly alteration. 

When doing that, you'd compare views and whatever the two views have in common can be held to be true and whatever the two views conflicted on remained a mystery. 

However, that implies that's how the "spiritual" world would work. That it works logically and reasonably like the material/physical world does. I wouldn't agree it does as I consider God to function (at least in part) like Quantum Mechanics do and those don't function in a reasonable or logical way at all, at least as we define it.

I know my views may be unpopular, but  humans of worshiped various gods throughout history (Egyptian, roman, greek, nomad) Today we think of these gods as a "joke" or "stories". What might people think of the gods or "god" we have today? They  will probably find him as much of a "joke" or a "story" as the past gods humans worshiped or believed in.

 

Just a thought, not trying to prove anything 

In my view. ^ This is the ultimate truth.

While I understand what you mean by this, as with my history of arguing with atheists (the hateful kind) on the internet, they often imagine that Bruce Wayne will be the next God if we ever have an apocalyptic event or something equivalent and a comic book is found, becoming the new Bible with Bruce being the man and Batman being the God part of it, I can't ignore the level of impact (whether good or bad in your opinon) that the Christian God has had on society.

It literally went from a group of people in the Middle East (Jews/Israelites) to the Roman Empire to the entire world. The influence of our religion is massive on a world scale (look at the Catholic Church, although I personally wouldn't refer to them as "Christians" for personal reasons, me being Protestant being a very small one of those reasons). 

The idea that it will be forgotten or anything similar, especially since it's so prevalent at the dawn of the age of technology (internet, and the like), is silly to me. It being denied/ignored/turning into a "well they believed this but that's just silly" however, I imagine, could happen. If you take Revelations as prophetic, then the Bible says that's essentially what will happen. However, I also completely doubt that religion, as it is, a belief system, will ever truly be gone (in that no one practices it as a whole). Simply because the things that started it (the "spiritual" side of things and life) will never truly go away. Ignored, perhaps, but go away? Doubt it.

And as I consider God to be real, I completely doubt humanity would ever fully turn away from Him. Maybe any one people's view of Him might fall away, but I doubt that worship of Him will ever completely go away.

Eh, I'm an optimist. Remember that when considering what I've said. 

[Bleedman0xx]

I was making it a point to make a generalized statement and to not single anyone out. Vitalius believes homosexuals have the same rights as straight people as long as they wed someone of the opposite sex. The same views Michelle Bachman has on the subject. What I was getting at is Christian fundamentalists have been the bane of social change in this country and it hasn't changed really. The Major opponents of The rights of black people were right leaning fundamentalist Christians. The same type of majority that are against the rights of homosexuals, I was making that correlation. 

Well, you asked: "[...] Do you think the Christians in this thread [...]" and I answered you. I only know of one Christian in this thread, and that's Vitalius.

[beebskadoo]

Well, you asked: "[...] Do you think the Christians in this thread [...]" and I answered you. I only know of one Christian in this thread, and that's Vitalius.

there has been a few that have contributed.

[Bleedman0xx]

Vitalius believes homosexuals have the same rights as straight people as long as they wed someone of the opposite sex.

* I meant to respond to this part of your post initially

 

Yes, but he also made it apparent a few pages back that he believes in the separation of Church and State.

[beebskadoo]

* I meant to respond to this part of your post initially

 

Yes, but he also made it apparent a few pages back that he believes in the separation of Church and State.

He also said the majority rules and the majority is christian. 

[Bleedman0xx]

He also said the majority rules and the majority is christian. 

There are different kinds of Christians out there. Also, keep in mind that Christianity (while still having strong numbers.) is shrinking.

[beebskadoo]

There are different kinds of Christians out there. Also, keep in mind that Christianity (while still having strong numbers.) is shrinking.

I know that but those different kinds are lumped. I know the numbers are shrinking but he is the one that said it's the majority. 

[Bleedman0xx]

I know that but those different kinds are lumped. I know the numbers are shrinking but he is the one that said it's the majority. 

I think you'll find it apparent that gays are winning the votes and they have been for a while now.

[beebskadoo]

I think you'll find it apparent that gays are winning the votes and they have been for a while now.

I'm the one saying that things are changing for the good and he is the one minimizing the repeal of DOMA and Prop 8. Do you not understand how i feel about this? because it really appears you don't. :)

[Vitalius]

I'm the one saying that things are changing for the good and he is the one minimizing the repeal of DOMA and Prop 8. Do you not understand how i feel about this? because it really appears you don't. :)

Do note that I'm attempting to minimize the repeal of DOMA and Prop 8 because, legally speaking (and that is all it's speaking about), it's nothing new, controversial, or "change" worthy.

"Why" the laws are repealed, I would argue, is far more important than "what" is repealed. I've already explained extensively in the earliest pages of this thread what this means and why it's important.

To summarize:

The "why" decides if new laws like it can be made, and it is often easy to have them made, so even if the "what' is intriguing (like laws against same sex marriage), it's irrelevant if the "why" doesn't stop similar laws from being made. The "why", in this case (pun intended), doesn't prevent states from disallowing same sex marriage. It only disallows them from making a law to stereotype/target homosexuals directly. Which, as I said, is nothing "new" as that's existed for a long time since the Civil Rights era and Jim Crow laws and the like.

I wasn't minimizing it due to my religious beliefs. They just happen to correlate. Correlation =/= causation. :)

I simply wanted you and others who are championing this as an act of change to realize your "battle" isn't exactly over yet. Not much has *actually* changed, legally. 

[Bleedman0xx]

he is the one minimizing the repeal of DOMA and Prop 8.

His past posts do not reflect this at all. In fact, his very first post explained how "DOMA" was overturned because it was specifically made to hurt a specific demographic. To me, this post reflects a post made by a man that can think with rational thought and had very little to do with his religion.

 

Do you not understand how i feel about this? because it really appears you don't. :)

I understand how you feel. But lately your posts have reflected undertones of mockery. I just think you're rather frustrated and feel like you're cornered.

 

Edit: post #666!! Dun dun dunnnn

[beebskadoo]

His past posts do not reflect this at all. In fact, his very first post explained how "DOMA" was overturned because it was specifically made to hurt a specific demographic. To me, this post reflects a post made by a man that can think with rational thought and had very little to do with his religion.

 

I understand how you feel. But lately your posts have reflected undertones of mockery. I just think you're rather frustrated and feel like you're cornered.

 

Edit: post #666!! Dun dun dunnnn

I'm not mocking anyone. I just don't have time to keep up with this thread anymore. So it's balancing my busy schedule with this thread. So I have become a lot less engaged then i would like to be. 

If that is the case then i have greatly misunderstood his position on that and i offer up an apology. 

[beebskadoo]

I have been fairly bust this past week and have resorted to using my phone to respond. That isn't working too well to be honest but i'm still trying to be a part of the discussion. 

[Vitalius]

I'm not mocking anyone. I just don't have time to keep up with this thread anymore. So it's balancing my busy schedule with this thread. So I have become a lot less engaged then i would like to be. 

If that is the case then i have greatly misunderstood his position on that and i offer up an apology. 

Accepted. I know I write a lot (fast typer), so I'm pretty sure it's my fault too (I can be wordy and my explanations are detailed and drawn out).

:) 

[beebskadoo]

Accepted. I know I write a lot (fast typer), so I'm pretty sure it's my fault too (I can be wordy and my explanations are detailed and drawn out).

:)

Glad to hear you accept. See i try to type fast (i do on a keyboard) on my phone and it just turns to mush. I have a hard time trying to get complete thoughts down when i am busy especially when using a phone (galaxy s3) 

[Bleedman0xx]

I'm not mocking anyone.

I didn't want to point out specific posts but I was referring to your "I can quote from fictitious books too!" post. But seeing as you two have made up to an extent, I think we can let that one slide. =P

[FireFox]

Wow that was hard work :P

[beebskadoo]

Well now that's all done and over with what do we do now?

[FireFox]

Well now that's all done and over with what do we do now?

 

Argue about something else, here are a few topics to choose from :-

 

Gun's

Stupid People

Crap Movies or Good ones, doesn't really matter

Economy

Government

 

This is harder than I thought, someone care to think some more lol

[beebskadoo]

Argue about something else, here are a few topics to choose from :-

 

Gun's

Stupid People

Crap Movies or Good ones, doesn't really matter

Economy

Government

 

This is harder than I thought, someone care to think some more lol

hmm...lets talk about crap movies. Man of steel blew but my bf liked it. WTF!!!

Can't wait for the new hobbit movie though!

[FireFox]

hmm...lets talk about crap movies. Man of steel blew but my bf liked it. WTF!!!

Can't wait for the new hobbit movie though!

 

Looked quite interesting on the trailer but I haven't seen it yet, I came a cross a piece of crap called Sharknado and damn it looks terrible lol

[Vitalius]

hmm...lets talk about crap movies. Man of steel blew but my bf liked it. WTF!!!

Can't wait for the new hobbit movie though!

 

I didn't like Man of Steel. Too many changes to the story. The only thing I liked was Superman's appearance. He looked pale, but his costume was so detailed and fricking glorious. It was like he was wearing a suit of sapphire with a cape of ruby. Rich colors delight me.

Looked quite interesting on the trailer but I haven't seen it yet, I came a cross a piece of crap called Sharknado and damn it looks terrible lol

Sounds horrible. A shark tornado? ... 

If this can become a movie, anything can.

[FireFox]

I didn't like Man of Steel. Too many changes to the story. The only thing I liked was Superman's appearance. He looked pale, but his costume was so detailed and fricking glorious. It was like he was wearing a suit of sapphire with a cape of ruby. Rich colors delight me.

Sounds horrible. A shark tornado? ... 

If this can become a movie, anything can.

 

I could make a better movie by pissing up a wall, I think it fascinating that people out there create crap like that, so mind blowing lol