Australian Election 2013

[Hoppa]

Oh crap! There's an election?! Well... that just proves how out-of-sync I am with the news...

 

Someone tell me who to vote for, I really don't care.

duuude.... everyone in Australia should know this cause everyone should have been watching the State of Origin  :)

[AroundWayOtherThe]

duuude.... everyone in Australia should know this cause everyone should have been watching the State of Origin   :)

 

Well, just finished my exams today, so I can now concentrate on the important stuff :P

[mr moose]

JamesDwho, on 26 Jun 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

This is just might take on it, disagree with me if you want.

I would disagree, but the sentiment of what you say is generally correct. Although we are a fair way from the NBN being critical in health and education as most hospitals are already linked up with superfast fibre and most schools have adequate internet connections. There are a few that are behind the eight ball and I see no reason why we can't concentrate on those first. If the reasoning behind the NBN is business and rural connectivity then that is were the roll out should start, but alas I see it is being rolled out in marginal suburbs instead. To be honest I am surprised it hasn't being rolled out in west Sydney.

The debate about taxing big business is also a touchy subject as there is plenty of evidence to suggest that giving big companies tax breaks instead of increasing taxes spurs them to grow and invest which ultimately increases the workforce which inturn increases tax revenue from both personal and corporate taxes. It is sort of counter intuitive to social minded people. It certainly was a concept that took me a while to get my head around.

anyway, if national economics can be screwed up by Politian's then it can be screwed up by lay people like me too.

Quote

either that or a completely random choice on the leader of the country, which isn't really a viable option.

I hope not, but it is interesting to note that compulsory voting was brought in to prevent business owners and unions from threatening people with either the sack or some other horrible consequence if they were caught voting.

[EtaCarinae]

The Great Australian Firewall was a policy introduced when Kevin Rudd was leader. Conroy is now gone as Telecommunications Minster, but that doesn't mean the policy isn't dead. Rudd was for it. Let that sink in.

 

Everyone keeps harping on about the NBN. As someone with Telstra cable at speeds of > 100Mb/s down / 2.4Mb/s up, I can tell you that some speeds from US servers and elsewhere are just as slow as on 10Mb/s down. Everyone seems to neglect this fact when clamoring for greater speed. Granted, the upload speed would be welcome, but HFC is also capable of around 20Mb/s-40Mb/s up.

 

Neglecting to integrate RF Overlay is an incredibly huge oversight made when the NBN was planned. The capacity is there. Aerials would have been made extinct and IPTV would have been amazing. The NTU first provided in the Tasmanian trial was capable of RF Overlay. [RF is the interface with the clear plug over the top]

 

 

It has been subsequently removed from the official roll-out NTU:

 

 

Now, back to straight politics:

 

Rudd stated on two occasions he had full confidence in PM, Gillard, and that he would in "no way" attempt to challenge her position. He lied on both those occasions and lost each leadership spill. Again, third time around, he lied up until the 9th hour that he would not contest -- he did and subsequently won.

Labor is Labor. It is not the leader but the entire party. The sum of its constituents. A swap of leader is like a slight of hand card trick. Nothing changes. Their whole party is toxic. Unions, and Labors subsequent association with them, do not belong in the 21st century. They are simply no longer a necessity and they stifle progress in economies because of squabbling and backward thinking/rhetoric.

 

Abbott is not the ideal Liberal leader nor an ideal candidate to be PM, but again, as I have said about Labor, he is not the Liberal party. He is simply their leader. Their policies are representative of their entire party and not one man. This is why I'm voting Liberal.

 

I'm still incredibly perturbed by Gillard lashing out at Tony Abbott as being a misogynist and being lauded internationally for doing so. Tony Abbott is not a misogynist. The correct term (in the context she wished to use) would have been chauvinist, and even then it is blatant hyperbole. Tony is married and has two grown-up daughters. He also has a lesbian sister whom he wholly supports and has a healthy relationship with.
I would go as far to call Gillard a misandrist. 

[ofr057]

I can fore see this issue being media fantasy ... this close to an election nothing is certain anymore.

 

I think personally kevin rudd is a good block and he got screwed over when he went up against the miners, I am not a fan of the proposed education plan as it will destroy kids getting into uni and even higher degree's and the amount of lies that have been said and labor has alot of mud on the face because of it.

Tony abbott scares the crap out of me, his view on immigration and the environment is very questionable.

 

I do not care about tax because they will get it from us one way or another

 

I will most likly be voting for the greens

[Hoppa]

KRudd does seem more popular than Gillard, but one of the main reasons of why he was back stabbed and voted out was because he works too hard and he expects too much of his fellow co-workers. Whether his work is for the greater good or not, I don't know, but from what I've heard he gets about 2 hours of sleep every night and then goes to work. He has been known to be cranky and demanding all the time as well and puts on a happy act in front of the public eye, but I guess that can be understandable when he has to run a country.

 

Also... if Abbott gets voted in as new PM in will the cable laying just stop? or will they continue on and finish most of it or something.

[mr moose]

KRudd does seem more popular than Gillard, but one of the main reasons of why he was back stabbed and voted out was because he works too hard and he expects too much of his fellow co-workers. Whether his work is for the greater good or not, I don't know, but from what I've heard he gets about 2 hours of sleep every night and then goes to work. He has been known to be cranky and demanding all the time as well and puts on a happy act in front of the public eye, but I guess that can be understandable when he has to run a country.

 

Also... if Abbott gets voted in as new PM in will the cable laying just stop? or will they continue on and finish most of it or something.

were told if the liberal party win, the fibre will continue to be rolled out to the node and street upgrades to fibre will occur when the cost of copper maintenance exceeds the fibre upgrade. Of course the usual disclaimer has to be made, that is that this is all speculation because it comes from Politian's before an election.

[ofr057]

KRudd does seem more popular than Gillard, but one of the main reasons of why he was back stabbed and voted out was because he works too hard and he expects too much of his fellow co-workers. Whether his work is for the greater good or not, I don't know, but from what I've heard he gets about 2 hours of sleep every night and then goes to work. He has been known to be cranky and demanding all the time as well and puts on a happy act in front of the public eye, but I guess that can be understandable when he has to run a country.

 

Also... if Abbott gets voted in as new PM in will the cable laying just stop? or will they continue on and finish most of it or something.

that the other thing ... people that have fibre already will be laughing as there housing price would be going through the roof if FTTH is canned.

 

and i wouldnt put it past Abbott if he gets in on the first day NBN would be dead

[Hoppa]

that the other thing ... people that have fibre already will be laughing as there housing price would be going through the roof if FTTH is canned.

 

and i wouldnt put it past Abbott if he gets in on the first day NBN would be dead

That's true, I'm expecting the same thing if abbott gets in.

 

To be honest I'm happy with my 14MB/s down 300KB/s up copper connection. Australia doesn't really need fibre speed internet until American servers get faster internet themselves as most of the internet sites we visit are from America.

 

Although there are some places in Australia where the copper network is so highly used that their speeds are pretty terrible. So fibre connection is needed is some places.

[the_devil52]

The thread reminded me of this video:

 

[JamesDwho]

That's true, I'm expecting the same thing if abbott gets in.

 

To be honest I'm happy with my 14MB/s down 300KB/s up copper connection. Australia doesn't really need fibre speed internet until American servers get faster internet themselves as most of the internet sites we visit are from America.

 

Although there are some places in Australia where the copper network is so highly used that their speeds are pretty terrible. So fibre connection is needed is some places.

I take it you don't upload much at all then with only 300Kbps? as for most the sites we visit being in the US thats not actually true Telstra and Internode/iinet have Steam CDN's (Content delivery networks) which provide high speed game downloads in Australia. Websites like facebook have local Australian CDN's that provide various data like images/videos.  

[Hoppa]

I take it you don't upload much at all then with only 300Kbps? as for most the sites we visit being in the US thats not actually true Telstra and Internode/iinet have Steam CDN's (Content delivery networks) which provide high speed game downloads in Australia. Websites like facebook have local Australian CDN's that provide various data like images/videos.  

lol yer i rarely upload at all, only for assignments or things with dropbox etc.

 

yer i know that a lot of sites have hosts or whatever here in australia, but i remember seeing an image that showed the traffic of the internet of the world or something, and how most sites that are not american are usually passed through america before it gets here to australia, and it was only a small percentage that were not.

[EtaCarinae]

I take it you don't upload much at all then with only 300Kbps? as for most the sites we visit being in the US thats not actually true Telstra and Internode/iinet have Steam CDN's (Content delivery networks) which provide high speed game downloads in Australia. Websites like facebook have local Australian CDN's that provide various data like images/videos.  

 

Telstra's Steam CDN is notorious for being slow. It's also metered, unlike iiNet. Origin on Telstra is even worse. As I've said, It's great to have 100Mb/s down... when it works to its full potential but is entirely dependent on the server end. 

 

Turnball has stated Greenfield estates (new developments) will receive FTTH. There is no ripping up fibre or whatever other bullshit hyperbole/scaremongering laborites have conjured up. 

As for the poster claiming housing prices will skyrocket where FTTH has already been laid -- I sincerely doubt it. HFC already provides Foxtel/FTA/Internet and that hasn't affected housing prices in areas where it's available. Please remember we are tech enthusiasts living in a bubble.

[Muppet]

I'm glad to see Rudd back, I didn't like Gillard much. Also I definitely do not want Abbot as PM and we definitely do not want him representing us a t the G20 summit later this year. Abbot is wanting to take us backward in climate change policy and in our telecommunications infrastructure. Rudd was/is for climate change policy and the NBN. 

 

Can Labor come back in the polls? If not how much will they be able to come back?, I think they might be able to come back to a close competition. Perhaps they are too unstable. But then again Rudd is rather popular among the younger generations. 

. 

[mr moose]

I'm glad to see Rudd back, I didn't like Gillard much. Also I definitely do not want Abbot as PM and we definitely do not want him representing us a t the G20 summit later this year. Abbot is wanting to take us backward in climate change policy and in our telecommunications infrastructure. Rudd was/is for climate change policy and the NBN. 

 

Can Labor come back in the polls? If not how much will they be able to come back?, I think they might be able to come back to a close competition. Perhaps they are too unstable. But then again Rudd is rather popular among the younger generations. 

. 

Why do you say that? is there any evidence that the liberals policies will be worse for climate change? I have pondered these questions a few times and have yet to find evidence they do less for the climate. For all the hype they are not that different to the Obama style policies on climate change (which is kinda interesting when you consider he is a democrat). If someone had of said in 2010 that Gillard will set the feminist movement back 20 years with her unrelenting attacks on Tony Abbot would you have believed that?  I am not saying Abbot is anything in particular, but I have yet to meet anyone who's opinion of him was not formed from listening to Labor rhetoric.

[Muppet]

Why do you say that? is there any evidence that the liberals policies will be worse for climate change? I have pondered these questions a few times and have yet to find evidence they do less for the climate. For all the hype they are not that different to the Obama style policies on climate change (which is kinda interesting when you consider he is a democrat). If someone had of said in 2010 that Gillard will set the feminist movement back 20 years with her unrelenting attacks on Tony Abbot would you have believed that?  I am not saying Abbot is anything in particular, but I have yet to meet anyone who's opinion of him was not formed from listening to Labor rhetoric.

He is going to abolish the carbon tax, then we would be one of the few countries that don't have it. Also he wants to take back the 10 billion dollars that is going to clean energy projects, He asked that the current government to hold of plans to spend that money. 

[mr moose]

He is going to abolish the carbon tax, then we would be one of the few countries that don't have it. Also he wants to take back the 10 billion dollars that is going to clean energy projects, He asked that the current government to hold of plans to spend that money. 

that's true, but that does not mean his alternative policies to the carbon tax won't pickup the difference if not be better for the environment. Also there is no evidence that the $10B spent on business will actually help the environment. They are both Politian's promoting their own ideals on climate change how can we say one won't work while the other will without evidence. While Tony Abbot has expressed in past he is not convinced about AGW he has declared that he will do what is necessary to prevent climate change.  One polies promise is as good as another.

[Muppet]

that's true, but that does not mean his alternative policies to the carbon tax won't pickup the difference if not be better for the environment. Also there is no evidence that the $10B spent on business will actually help the environment. They are both Politian's promoting their own ideals on climate change how can we say one won't work while the other will without evidence. While Tony Abbot has expressed in past he is not convinced about AGW he has declared that he will do what is necessary to prevent climate change.  One polies promise is as good as another.

That is all true, but, The greens "like" labor more then the coalition, and that last night after the switch in government they said they do not want Abbot in power. I think that says a lot. But as you said, we cant be sure. They did also question the stability of labor. So it will be interesting to see what the polls say after all this. i suspect Labor wont win, but may gain back some of what they lose. 

[mr moose]

That is all true, but, The greens "like" labor more then the coalition, and that last night after the switch in government they said they do not want Abbot in power. I think that says a lot. But as you said, we cant be sure. They did also question the stability of labor. So it will be interesting to see what the polls say after all this. i suspect Labor wont win, but may gain back some of what they lose. 

 

Don't under estimate voting Australians. We are a fickle bunch and sometimes common sense does not enter the debate when a vote is cast.  I am not too sure how I feel about the greens, A lot of their policies would be very hard to implement and they are a very idealistic party unlike the liberals which may explain their attachment to labor.  I have long held that if you vote for independents or the greens it will be a vote for labor (mainly through preferencing) and likewise if you vote for family first or the UAP it will be a vote for liberal. I will be very interested to see how the next opinion poll looks after this spill. I predict labor will bounce back halfway to at least a primary vote of 35% and the two party could wind back to 48/52.   

[Muppet]

Don't under estimate voting Australians. We are a fickle bunch and sometimes common sense does not enter the debate when a vote is cast.  I am not too sure how I feel about the greens, A lot of their policies would be very hard to implement and they are a very idealistic party unlike the liberals which may explain their attachment to labor.  I have long held that if you vote for independents or the greens it will be a vote for labor (mainly through preferencing) and likewise if you vote for family first or the UAP it will be a vote for liberal. I will be very interested to see how the next opinion poll looks after this spill. I predict labor will bounce back halfway to at least a primary vote of 35% and the two party could wind back to 48/52.   

I agree the greens and their policy's can and are a bit unrealistic, and i also feel a bit "un-easy" about them but there support of labor show who is more forward on climate change. But of course there are plenty of other issues to look through and cant be forgotten. I think the Australian people vote vary much on the leader and if they like them or not, which can be troubling, same for the older generation voting for a party because they always vote for that party. 

 

I may be a bit biased but toward labor but I do not like any of our government and not stuck on Labor. i just don't like Abbot. i usually find the more forward thinking party is the one I gravitate towards. 

[Pvtjace]

Rudd wanted an NBN, he's a good direction in the IT sector of Australia.
Rudd never wanted the Carbon tax, he was working on a trading scheme that wouldnt root big industries.
Rudd is who I voted for, not some ranga who sways a party so Im glad our Kevin 07 is back, because frankly id rather move over seas then live under Abbot!

[mr moose]

I think your right, the people of Australia do tend to vote for the leader, and with the 24/7 news coverage and internet opinion being spread so easily it is getting harder and harder differentiate between who some is and who they are portrayed as. I have noticed over the last 20 years of following politics that to get to the actual truth of both policies and what Politian's are saying takes a lot longer. For every statement a Politian makes I have to read at least three news articles, check the relevant source then listen to the actual transcript of what was said before I know how far bent their words are or if I even agree. SO imagine how hard it is for someone who does not have the time, they will be basing their vote on what the media tells them or what their preferred party tells them. 

[SubTract]

It seems we're in a pickle,

Vote Labour, Get NBN, Send the country into further debt. I don't want to be part of the next greece.</p>

Vote Liberal, No NBN, spend the next 4 terms getting the country out of debt and have no money pumped into anything, How liberal always work.

@Windspeed36 said something about There should be a lot of things more important than internet.

As there would probably big advantages to most of the sectors he mentioned. Generally what we have is good enough.

Personally Kevin Rudd is a much more likable person the Julia Gillard. I don't think there is anything they can do at this stage to save Labour at the next elections. I would also be quite surprised if Kevin doesn't call the election sooner than September where it is currently scheduled. As much as most of the stuff they've done will likely be better for Australia in the long run, The way they've done it; by making the citizens angry and going on with plans as Unpopular as they are, Seemingly in spite (May not have been the intentions but that is how it has come across). You could almost compare Labour's last term with Microsofts announcement of the Xbox One. They Announced it, realised people didn't like it. Continued with they're plans Seemingly in spite of consumers... Only to turn around and reverse some decisions to try and win back some of their Customers before it was to late.

Our Government is the Joke of the world right now, But whats happened needed to happen. We don't want to end up like America.

The only way it could work to some sort of advantage would be if somehow we ended up with Labour for 1 Term (To spend all the money and give the country the boosts in the areas it needs it) and then Liberal to 4-5 Terms (to get the Country back either out of debt or into solid standings).

Things obviously need to change and I'll admit that I've never really supported Labour and doubt that I ever will; That without The Howard Liberal Government getting up such a large surplus, Followed by Rudd/Gillard/Rud Labour Government Spending all of the surplus. Our Country would be in a much worse position that it is.

Our Country needs both parties, Just it needs to balance them.

On a positive, If liberal does get in, the Carbon tax should help reduce time that it takes to get out of debt.

My 2c

P.S. I'm pretty impressed at how civil this conversation has stayed. Its nice to see that there is people out there who can have an opinion and not tear everybody's heads off just because they don't agree.

Well Done Everybody :)

edit: Quote broke while I was typing

edit: Post broke during edit :(

Edited June 27, 2013 by SubTract

[Night]

I trust and Support Rudd, he's our only chance of getting the true NBN.

Without him as leader, We're going to the liberals without a doubt, I prefer the Liberals in local and state, but they're to short minded for national affairs.

This sounds like a reasonable response. I agree. 

Edit:

In terms of my own opinion, I dont really care too much, I might move to Aus one day but its not highly likely at this stage. Australia having faster internet would be benificial for me on the basis that Australia acts as a passthrough for New Zealands internet, so if thats faster and better I can only asume I would end up with a high quality and faster speed. Also it means my friends in Aus might get a better ping and improve my gaming experience.

[SubTract]

This sounds like a reasonable response. I agree. 

Edit:

In terms of my own opinion, I dont really care too much, I might move to Aus one day but its not highly likely at this stage. Australia having faster internet would be benificial for me on the basis that Australia acts as a passthrough for New Zealands internet, so if thats faster and better I can only asume I would end up with a high quality and faster speed. Also it means my friends in Aus might get a better ping and improve my gaming experience.

I don't think this would be that beneficial to you. Australia's internet within the country isn't really that bad. The problem lies with the international backbone. Servers within australia are pretty snappy and I can normally get 1-2.5 MB's from Aus servers. When you go international though Its more like max maybe 500KB's. Unfortunatly NBN is only going to help within Australia.

 

This may cause some problems with Azures cloud compute and Xbox One, Unless there's enough horses within australia. (A bit unrelated but you'll get used to that)