I am sick of Intel (Rant)

[ALXAndy]

A whole separate production line would be such a waste of resources and should (I'm not an expert on these things) drive up prices which is not something I would like to see. The mobile market needs more attention than desktops at this point in time. Like others have said there is 2011, yeah it's priced at a premium but what would you expect from an enthusiast platform? I want to see progression in the desktop market but I think the mobile market needs it more. I don't want just 6 hours of battery on my laptop when I travel. Yeah it sucks for our demographic of users but I can see the usefulness of focusing a bit more on mobiles.

 

You know what? I actually agree to most of that. Now there's a thing..

 

I couldn't agree more that Intel and AMD should be making CPUs that use less power for laptops and mobile devices.

 

I will add, though, that they shouldn't try and mask them as enthusiast products and market them as such. Just another trick scheme to try and get people parting with their cash. What they should have done was used Haswell for laptops and mobile devices rather than sell it as an enthusiast chip that they charge you to be unlocked.

 

Seriously, I'm still, even after all of this time, no end of pissed off at Intel for destroying the overclocking fun of all of their CPUs other than their top of the range ones. All that's done has forced people to go AMD. Now they might be big and snobby enough not to care? probably, but it will bite them in the ass now that 8 threads are being supported more and more.

 

FWIW (and this is aimed at the guy who still thinks his IB CPU will out perform an AMD 8 core at the same clocks) the 8350 actually out performs the 3570k clock per clock when 8 cores are used. I've done exhaustive testing now with many of my friends and we concluded that when 8 cores were being seen and used effectively that the AMD was out in front. Not by much, but then they cost half as much as their Intel counterpart.

[TheRetiredSlave]

A good chip can be clocked down for non-enthusiasts. A bad chip can't be clocked higher for enthusiasts.

Also, mobile chips should belong to a completely different production line and each production line focused on its field.

The problem is that a good chip costs more than a non-enthusiast would want to pay, and underclocking a chips is pointless unless you're trying to lower heat output in a tablet or ultrabook.. Underclocking a CPU doesn't decrease the cost of the CPU at all, so there would be no reason to underclock CPUs for non-enthusiast platforms..

 

Mobile chips ARE on a completely different tier than their desktop counterparts; they aren't interchangeable in any way.. Are you suggesting that Intel makes a completely different architecture for their mobile CPUs than their desktop CPUs??  Like Dudenstein said, that would only increase the price of the chips, because they would now have to design and manufacture two new architectures each generation, which would essentially double the development/production cost.. What do you think that would do to prices?

[PCBudgetSolutions]

I kinda see his point.  Gaming Enthusiasts are going to buy an I7-4770K.  It is NOT a consumer CPU.  The Unlocked Processors should be designed for us gaming enthusiasts, not strapped into the consumer grade.

[Dylan522p]

This is about CPUs and company strategy.

They have chosen the wrong path. They are dragging down the PC market in favor of tablets and laptops (where there is more money). We don't care about less power consumption and better onboard graphics on desktops (especially mid to high range ones). There is no point in -K processors if you can't overclock due to the crappy TIM or low quality chips. I look at my Lynnefield i7 860 and I know with the right motherboard I can overclock it more than Haswell chips. BGA is a move to assign more responsibility to motherboard manufacturers and themselves be less to blame. They are just intrested in every single penny of profit they can get. I see them as a new Apple, only with even less quality per dollar. It is unacceptable to provide high quality review chips capable of 4.7Ghz+ when an average 4770K is difficult to get past 4.2Ghz. They want to bleed us dry for mediocre products. SHAME. I really hope for some competition from AMD.

 

To reviewers out there: STOP making excuses for Intel with arguements like: "The new chips are focused at mobile systems" and "The more powerful onboard graphics are such a big step from Ivy".  Desktops are not mobile, don't have batteries and every respectable gamer uses a dedicated GPU, so admit that Haswell is a HUGE letdown and help people get what they deserve.

 

 

Last but not least: Haters gonna hate and Intel fanboys are gonna hate more. Feel free to TRY to prove that Intel rocks.

 

Don't make comments like desktops do have batteries for CMOS please.

 

So much is wrong with your post.

 

1. They are going for the markets that matter and they have to compete in. Servers, mobile, and low end to mid-range PC's.

 

2. They use extremely high TIM's, but they used too much and there is a space between the TIM and the lid. Delid and just keep the TIM (maybe take a bit off) they have on it and your temps will drop quite a bit.

 

3. Average 4770k OC's to 4.5, and delided it will go much higher.

 

4. New Apple? WTF is this coming from?

 

5. Go to AMD, but they have less performance because their tech is not as good.

 

6. Haswell is still giving you 10% performance that we expected + all this extra stuff.

[Scia]

_ASSASSIN_, on 13 Jun 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

you realize the AMD won't come to consumer market BECAUSE of how hot it runs right?

so right now, it's going to PC builders and stuff, not consumers

AMD has "Ultrathins" [Obviously they cannot use the term "Ultrabook"], which have a very good battery-life and much better integrated graphics.

@OT:

Really there is no point in buying Haswell if you are Sandy / Ivy or even below. Haswell is really showing that Intel is not giving a shit since sadly AMD doesn't push them enough at the moment.

Steamroller is said to be a very awesome CPU with very nice single thread performance, due to having 1 decoder / core instead of /2core [module].

Next time I'll go with AMD aswell, probably Steamroller or Excavator, depending on when I update my PC.

And in the GPU market they have won since they bought ATI ^^

Dylan522p, on 14 Jun 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

So much is wrong with your post.

1. They are going for the markets that matter and they have to compete in. Servers, mobile, and low end to mid-range PC's.

2. They use extremely high TIM's, but they used too much and there is a space between the TIM and the lid. Delid and just keep the TIM (maybe take a bit off) they have on it and your temps will drop quite a bit.

3. Average 4770k OC's to 4.5, and delided it will go much higher.

4. New Apple? WTF is this coming from?

5. Go to AMD, but they have less performance because their tech is not as good.

6. Haswell is still giving you 10% performance that we expected + all this extra stuff.

This is a very informed and critical statement, well founded by expressions such as: "their tech is not as good". Have you considered joining the Intel Response Squad?

[orangecat]

We don't care about less power consumption and better onboard graphics on desktops (especially mid to high range ones). 

OK well if you don't care about power consumption in the next 10 years a CPU would have a TDP of like 1000 watts. Besides CPUs are fast enough for everything you need to do.

[Dylan522p]

AMD has "Ultrathins" [Obviously they cannot use the term "Ultrabook"], which have a very good battery-life and much better integrated graphics.

 

 

@OT:

Really there is no point in buying Haswell if you are Sandy / Ivy or even below. Haswell is really showing that Intel is not giving a shit since sadly AMD doesn't push them enough at the moment.

 

Steamroller is said to be a very awesome CPU with very nice single thread performance, due to having 1 decoder / core instead of /2core [module].

 

Next time I'll go with AMD aswell, probably Steamroller or Excavator, depending on when I update my PC.

 

And in the GPU market they have won since they bought ATI ^^

 

Nope Kabini has worse power to performance and worse integrated graphics to the equivalent power using Intel mobile chips. AMD has them on price though.

[Scia]

Nope Kabini has worse power to performance and worse integrated graphics to the equivalent power using Intel mobile chips. AMD has them on price though.

 

How bout "Richland"? In terms of iGPU, Intel is nowhere near AMD.

Neither in price / performance. A 8350 beats a 3570k, overclocks better, get's a little hotter, but so what, you got a nice cooler in your tower.

And the new series that adresses the single threaded performance problem they have in certain situations, will most likely rape Haswell in every possible way.

 

And Intel being like Apple -> Uber-troll. Trolling poor people and fanboys into blindly buying stuff that is not even remotely worth the money spent.

4670k vs 4770k is a SOFTWARE LOCK. for +120$. You don't see anything wrong with that?

[KOtech]

:blink:

[felixbearpig]

why is this still an argument ? at least intel has legit hardware progression, amds idea of progresstion is old tech with bigger numbers...... but they do lead in igpu ill give them that

[Dylan522p]

This is a very informed and critical statement, well founded by expressions such as: "their tech is not as good". Have you considered joining the Intel Response Squad?

 

 

If you are being sarcastic, their tech is not as good. They are on 32nm and no 3d transistors no hyperthreading, less ipc, and a whole host of other things. I was simplifying it. If you are being serious about joining it, that is too much work. I'd rather just buy what they give you.

[TechTheWorld]

Welcome to the real world son.

[Scia]

at least intel has legit hardware progression

 

But where's the performance increase, or rather the reason to update=

 

 

amds idea of progresstion is old tech with bigger numbers......

 

It's weird how all of a sudden people started considering AMD cpus a lot more than before? Perhaps because M$ adressed the issue with AMD Cpus in Win8? Or because more and more benchmarks showed up that have shown AMD is nowhere near as "bad" as everybody said?

[felixbearpig]

But where's the performance increase, or rather the reason to update=

 

 

 

It's weird how all of a sudden people started considering AMD cpus a lot more than before? Perhaps because M$ adressed the issue with AMD Cpus in Win8? Or because more and more benchmarks showed up that have shown AMD is nowhere near as "bad" as everybody said?

because bigger numbers mean eveything for some people and not the technological advances and they are butthurt beacuse the socket changed. and there is not reason to ugrade unless you need too, right now technogoly is at its peak and we cant really make things have huge leaps as they did before

[Dylan522p]

How bout "Richland"? In terms of iGPU, Intel is nowhere near AMD.

Neither in price / performance. A 8350 beats a 3570k, overclocks better, get's a little hotter, but so what, you got a nice cooler in your tower.

And the new series that adresses the single threaded performance problem they have in certain situations, will most likely rape Haswell in every possible way.

 

And Intel being like Apple -> Uber-troll. Trolling poor people and fanboys into blindly buying stuff that is not even remotely worth the money spent.

4670k vs 4770k is a SOFTWARE LOCK. for +120$. You don't see anything wrong with that?

 

Richland is stronger, but in the Desktop form factor, iGPU is not as important. Kabini is their mobile and that is not as good as even the non Iris iGPU's. A 8350 loses to a 4670k in most cases(*why are you talking about 3570k, that is not the flagship i5) if you take your time to properly OC them both and such (deliding the 4670k). 8350 also has MASSIVELY lower single threaded performance. There is no way AMD can catch up to Intel in 1 gen in single threaded performance.

 

As for your Intel is like apple comment, that is stupid. Intel has better performance and less power consumption, so as an enthusiast, I buy what performs best. 4670k vs 4770k is not a software lock only. The lower binned chips become 4670k's and the other i5's. That is like you saying 8320 is the same as the 8350 and the 9370 and 9590. The other three are just higher clocks right? NO, they are binned chips. Also, 4670k to 4770k is not $120

[_ASSASSIN_]

AMD has "Ultrathins" [Obviously they cannot use the term "Ultrabook"], which have a very good battery-life and much better integrated graphics.

 

that was completely unrelated to what I was saying

OK!

[Scia]

because bigger numbers mean eveything for some people and not the technological advances and they are butthurt beacuse the socket changed. and there is not reason to ugrade unless you need too, right now technogoly is at its peak and we cant really make things have huge leaps as they did before

 

Bigger numbers is marketing, pretty simple, people are stupid that's why it works. But I've heard worse product names before so nvm.

 

Intel was certainly able to produce much better CPUs. But they don't do it simply because right now they lack the competition that really takes them by the balls.

AMD on the other hand being not in the best position imaginable, have to amp up their stuff and try to compete. Which makes them a much more honest company, also considering pricing.

And if the rumors about Steamroller are true, Intel will be grabbed by their balls hard, and will have to actually change something for Broadwell.

 

This is the really sad part about the tech-industry. Nvidia thinks themselves so much ahead of AMD that they just skipped the Titan / 780 for laters, because they thought they didn't need to get such a big step and had people buy their mid-range stuff with a big number on it. They were sitting on these GK110 chips for ever.

 

Intel is doing precisely the same, why should they care about increasing performance, if they feel themselves safe of competiton? I really hope Steamroller will be what it's expected to be, and make them cry so hard we actually get some competition rolling. Will please Intel- and AMD-Fanboys alike.

[Dylan522p]

But where's the performance increase, or rather the reason to update=

 

 

 

It's weird how all of a sudden people started considering AMD cpus a lot more than before? Perhaps because M$ adressed the issue with AMD Cpus in Win8? Or because more and more benchmarks showed up that have shown AMD is nowhere near as "bad" as everybody said?

 

10% performance less power consumption, bettter RAM contollers, and better iGPU are all reasons to upgrade. Not from IVB unless you are an entusiast, but from older stuff. People consider AMD's top of the line CPU's which consume a ton more power and put out a ton more heat becuase they are trying to catch up, but they are not advancing. They are trowing more GHZ at the problem instead of improving perfomance ATM. They have to push and scale up so much more just to be competitive. even Intel's flagship (3970X (based on 2 year old architecture about to be updated soon tough)) is using less power than a 8350.

[felixbearpig]

Bigger numbers is marketing, pretty simple, people are stupid that's why it works. But I've heard worse product names before so nvm.

 

Intel was certainly able to produce much better CPUs. But they don't do it simply because right now they lack the competition that really takes them by the balls.

AMD on the other hand being not in the best position imaginable, have to amp up their stuff and try to compete. Which makes them a much more honest company, also considering pricing.

And if the rumors about Steamroller are true, Intel will be grabbed by their balls hard, and will have to actually change something for Broadwell.

 

This is the really sad part about the tech-industry. Nvidia thinks themselves so much ahead of AMD that they just skipped the Titan / 780 for laters, because they thought they didn't need to get such a big step and had people buy their mid-range stuff with a big number on it. They were sitting on these GK110 chips for ever.

 

Intel is doing precisely the same, why should they care about increasing performance, if they feel themselves safe of competiton? I really hope Steamroller will be what it's expected to be, and make them cry so hard we actually get some competition rolling. Will please Intel- and AMD-Fanboys alike.

i completly agree with you, if one company fails, we as the consumer and the tech world get shafted

[Dylan522p]

Bigger numbers is marketing, pretty simple, people are stupid that's why it works. But I've heard worse product names before so nvm.

 

Intel was certainly able to produce much better CPUs. But they don't do it simply because right now they lack the competition that really takes them by the balls.

AMD on the other hand being not in the best position imaginable, have to amp up their stuff and try to compete. Which makes them a much more honest company, also considering pricing.

And if the rumors about Steamroller are true, Intel will be grabbed by their balls hard, and will have to actually change something for Broadwell.

 

This is the really sad part about the tech-industry. Nvidia thinks themselves so much ahead of AMD that they just skipped the Titan / 780 for laters, because they thought they didn't need to get such a big step and had people buy their mid-range stuff with a big number on it. They were sitting on these GK110 chips for ever.

 

Intel is doing precisely the same, why should they care about increasing performance, if they feel themselves safe of competiton? I really hope Steamroller will be what it's expected to be, and make them cry so hard we actually get some competition rolling. Will please Intel- and AMD-Fanboys alike.

 

Intel isn't sitting on their best CPU's as much as they are selling them for $1000 or more. Nvidia couldn't produce many GK110's earlier on, but now they have started being able to so thats why we got Titan and 780.

[Scia]

As for your Intel is like apple comment, that is stupid. Intel has better performance and less power consumption, so as an enthusiast, I buy what performs best. 4670k vs 4770k is not a software lock only. The lower binned chips become 4670k's and the other i5's. That is like you saying 8320 is the same as the 8350 and the 9370 and 9590. The other three are just higher clocks right? NO, they are binned chips. Also, 4670k to 4770k is not $120

 

Less power consumption in a laptop sure. In a desktop I don't see the hype around it. Really no point. "Upgrading" because of power consumption will be worth it like 25years later in terms of actually saved money.

They are higher binned, yet it's precisely the same chip, that is software locked to be K, non-K, i7 or i5. So my argument still stands.

 

And there is close to no difference between a 8320 and a 8350, you can OC them about the same, which negates the initial performance gain through the few extra MHZ out of the box. You can potentially get a higher OC on a 8350, but from my experience, this is neglectable.

 

i5 4670k = 249.00CHF = 269.60$

i7 4770k = 349.00CHF = 377.89$

 

110$ for all I care, you get my point.

[Lyons]

Last non enthusiast Intel CPU worth buying: 2500k. I won't upgrade until AMD brings something out worth buying. Screw Intel, their updates are bullsh*t now. I couldn't care less about sub 100w TDP or integrated GPU performance. iGPU 's shouldn't even be on the K models. Thermal paste under the heat spreader? Come on. I just want the CPU to have a small die size and ridiculously overclocking ability that won't burn my house down. Games are getting less CPU bound now anyway, I imagine a cheap 8 core AMD CPU will come out soon enough and that'll be the one to get. The mobile CPU development is fantastic, but they are clearly screwing us over in the desktop department.

[Scia]

Intel isn't sitting on their best CPU's as much as they are selling them for $1000 or more. Nvidia couldn't produce many GK110's earlier on, but now they have started being able to so thats why we got Titan and 780.

 

The X-CPUs are the worst troll of all. 3MB more L3 cache and it's mostly bought by people that buy it solely because of it being "the best" for 2x the price of something that would perform identically to a 500$ CPU [probably even lower one] for 99% of the people buying it. Sure there is a few people actually gaining a benefit from it, buy still the 1000$ tag is nowhere near justified. But hey, if people are buying it, I'd do precisely the same.

 

They were able to produce plenty of them, they needed an excuse for not making it the 680. I mean they could supply plenty of them for the Titan so... They really didn't see it as a necessity. And after a few driver fixes and benchmark-software-updates, AMD roflstomped them. And the 7970 can still keep up the the 770 [as it's just a rebranded 680] and especially due to Nvidias horrible overclockability on the 600 series, they are still ahead in most of the GPU priceranges.

[Dylan522p]

Less power consumption in a laptop sure. In a desktop I don't see the hype around it. Really no point. "Upgrading" because of power consumption will be worth it like 25years later in terms of actually saved money.

They are higher binned, yet it's precisely the same chip, that is software locked to be K, non-K, i7 or i5. So my argument still stands.

 

And there is close to no difference between a 8320 and a 8350, you can OC them about the same, which negates the initial performance gain through the few extra MHZ out of the box. You can potentially get a higher OC on a 8350, but from my experience, this is neglectable.

 

i5 4670k = 249.00CHF = 269.60$

i7 4770k = 349.00CHF = 377.89$

 

110$ for all I care, you get my point.

 

I bought my 4770k for 279.99. Not my fault you live in a nation that is not important to Intel and has high taxes so prices are much higher.

[Dylan522p]

The X-CPUs are the worst troll of all. 3MB more L3 cache and it's mostly bought by people that buy it solely because of it being "the best" for 2x the price of something that would perform identically to a 500$ CPU [probably even lower one] for 99% of the people buying it. Sure there is a few people actually gaining a benefit from it, buy still the 1000$ tag is nowhere near justified. But hey, if people are buying it, I'd do precisely the same.

 

They were able to produce plenty of them, they needed an excuse for not making it the 680. I mean they could supply plenty of them for the Titan so... They really didn't see it as a necessity. And after a few driver fixes and benchmark-software-updates, AMD roflstomped them. And the 7970 can still keep up the the 770 [as it's just a rebranded 680] and especially due to Nvidias horrible overclockability on the 600 series, they are still ahead in most of the GPU priceranges.

 770 is 10% more performance than 7970GHZ for 10 more $.  770 is not just a rebranded 680 though. There are clear differences in the hardware they used.