Intel ‘Devil’s Canyon’ chips’ NGPTIM is still not efficient

[Misanthrope]

devil's canyon weren't suppose to be anything special. They are even selling it for same price. I expected even less from it.

 

Intel said so. You all need to stop this "Oh we knew it was just a refresh, nothing special" since that only encourages continued lies under the excuse of PR

[Builder]

It's not that they can't, they will not do it, it is more expensive for them, and until they have AMD or anyone else beating them, they will not give us soldered IHS on 11xx platforms, only xeons and i believe 2011 desktops and successors will have soldered IHS

If you watched the Intel stream with Linus, you would already know why there not soldering them in place..

I hope intel includes an 'enthusiast' CPU in their next generation with soldered heatspreaders for what? 10-20 bucks more? I think the amount of people who would buy that exact model over others would be remarkable.

It would only cost $20 more probably to do what they did before Ivy. Come on Intel, get your shit together.

ffs if you arent going to fix it just release a "new" enthusiast line cpus without lids

This. Intel please, for the love of god, do this. This will save so much time and effort in not having to de-lid them and hopefully, it should cut the cost down slightly. 

 

Also, on a side note, I wonder how well a de-lidded 4690K/4790K can overclock with a bit of exotic watercooling. Anyone willing to do it?

As far as I have heard they aren't using TIM because it is cheaper.

Intel said so. You all need to stop this "Oh we knew it was just a refresh, nothing special" since that only encourages continued lies under the excuse of PR

 

Wow...all of you really need to watch the stream. The dies became too small after Sandy Bridge to allow for soldering. The real problem the temps are so bad is not because of the TIM, it's because there is a gap in between the die and the IHS that the TIM does not fill completely. That's why your temps will improve drastically when you delid regardless of what TIM you use. 

 

Also, everyone here needs to consider what a minuscule part of the market we are. Devil's Canyon was nice enough, they aren't going to retool an entire section of their fab to make CPUs for the smallest market they serve. Either delid or don't, or get on LGA2011, but stop acting like a spoiled child and be grateful that they even tried to change the TIM at all.

[flibberdipper]

Wow...all of you really need to watch the stream. The dies became too small after Sandy Bridge to allow for soldering. The real problem the temps are so bad is not because of the TIM, it's because there is a gap in between the die and the IHS that the TIM does not fill completely. That's why your temps will improve drastically when you delid regardless of what TIM you use. 

 

Also, everyone here needs to consider what a minuscule part of the market we are. Devil's Canyon was nice enough, they aren't going to retool an entire section of their fab to make CPUs for the smallest market they serve. Either delid or don't, or get on LGA2011, but stop acting like a spoiled child and be grateful that they even tried to change the TIM at all.

I think they should go back to Sandy and tweak it to make it perform better without making the die smaller.

[KamiKatze]

Wow...all of you really need to watch the stream. The dies became too small after Sandy Bridge to allow for soldering. The real problem the temps are so bad is not because of the TIM, it's because there is a gap in between the die and the IHS that the TIM does not fill completely. That's why your temps will improve drastically when you delid regardless of what TIM you use. 

 

Also, everyone here needs to consider what a minuscule part of the market we are. Devil's Canyon was nice enough, they aren't going to retool an entire section of their fab to make CPUs for the smallest market they serve. Either delid or don't, or get on LGA2011, but stop acting like a spoiled child and be grateful that they even tried to change the TIM at all.

 

Everybody, praise the lord GabeN and be grateful that they even tried to change the TIM at all.

 

[Builder]

I think they should go back to Sandy and tweak it to make it perform better without making the die smaller.

But die shrinking is how they make it perform better. Do you understand semiconductor manufacturing?

 

Everybody, praise the lord GabeN and be grateful that they even tried to change the TIM at all.

Well, I mean, short of that, it's not very often that they rev their entire product line with new products that literally nobody but enthusiasts will buy.

[KamiKatze]

But die shrinking is how they make it perform better. Do you understand semiconductor manufacturing?

 

Well, I mean, short of that, it's not very often that they rev their entire product line with new products that literally nobody but enthusiasts will buy.

 

Yeah, no it's cool regardless. *literally*

 

I know that the binning process is what keeps them from making a high end model in terms of thermal interface.

 

Maybe they could however give proper delidding instructions and guarantee a limited warranty for a little extra $$ even if your chip fails after delidding. It would help the 3% of their customers that care.

[Builder]

-snip-

If you delid and it fails they will actually still accept it on RMA, believe it or not. You can read about it in the delidding thread over at overclock.net.

[flibberdipper]

But die shrinking is how they make it perform better. Do you understand semiconductor manufacturing?

 

Well, I mean, short of that, it's not very often that they rev their entire product line with new products that literally nobody but enthusiasts will buy.

I understand it. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Builder]

I understand it. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Well it's the only way aside from clock speed bumps. I'm not sure how else you'd suggest they'd increase performance.

[flibberdipper]

Well it's the only way aside from clock speed bumps. I'm not sure how else you'd suggest they'd increase performance.

Magic.

[raphidy]

Wow, maybe there is a market for motherboards with delid guard...

[JuztBe]

Intel said so. You all need to stop this "Oh we knew it was just a refresh, nothing special" since that only encourages continued lies under the excuse of PR

And what do you expect from Intel?They have no competition at all.So they are trying to get as much money from old hardware as possible. And such things will happen no matter what we say. I would be mad if they were have raised DC prices, but it's exactly the same.

[Builder]

Magic.

Because that's worked SO well in the past...

[flibberdipper]

Because that's worked SO well in the past...

Clearly! How else do you think they came up with the names?

[Builder]

Clearly! How else do you think they came up with the names?

Pentium must be a key element in witchcraft.

[FireFox]

So I'm not really that surprised. Not sure why Intel can't go back to soldering the IHS but it seems that like before, you'll need to de-lid it before you can push your chip any further.

 

http://www.kitguru.net/gaming/uncategorized/anton-shilov/intels-devils-canyon-chips-ngptim-is-still-not-efficient-research/

 

MONEY, That is all.

 

Intel will never go back to soldering because of cost, if Intel keeps this up then fuck them I'm going to AMD

[Builder]

MONEY, That is all.

 

Intel will never go back to soldering because of cost, if Intel keeps this up then fuck them I'm going to AMD

It's not cost, the dies are too small to solder the IHS anymore.

[FireFox]

It's not cost, the dies are too small to solder the IHS anymore.

 

Where did you find that piece of information because Ivy Bridge and Haswell dies aren't that much smaller than Sandy Bridge. I'm sure a company such as Intel could do it without much of a problem, it is just that they won't.

[TheProfosist]

I hope intel includes an 'enthusiast' CPU in their next generation with soldered heatspreaders for what? 10-20 bucks more? I think the amount of people who would buy that exact model over others would be remarkable.

They already have that and its actually ~$20 cheaper. *looks over at the 4820K*

This. Intel please, for the love of god, do this. This will save so much time and effort in not having to de-lid them and hopefully, it should cut the cost down slightly.

Also, on a side note, I wonder how well a de-lidded 4690K/4790K can overclock with a bit of exotic watercooling. Anyone willing to do it?

There are very very good reasons that have a IHS, though you probably weren't around in the P3 days.

Basically, you'd see much higher prices on these CPUs if they were to solder them at all.

I think if you want performance from Intel, you should just go to the enthusiast grade processors. Otherwise, you're stuck paying $180+ for just a "really good consumer CPU" which really has always been the case but this whole DC thing is reminding people of that truth.

Bingo 2011 has always been the true enthusiast line.

I think they should go back to Sandy and tweak it to make it perform better without making the die smaller.

I can only imagine the complaining with oh Intel only got a 2% improvement on their new processors.

[Builder]

Where did you find that piece of information because Ivy Bridge and Haswell dies aren't that much smaller than Sandy Bridge. I'm sure a company such as Intel could do it without much of a problem, it is just that they won't.

I believe it was on overclock.net awhile back. 

 

But yeah, Intel hardly sees a point in doing anything for enthusiasts because they only make real money off of selling the locked chips to system builders. We are an almost insignificant part of the market.

[AnnoyedShelf]

Not surprising.

 

[juretrn]

The point of Devils Canyon is not the TIM. It's in the power delivery caps on the bottom. However, that only helps the sub - zero overclockers.

[Constantine]

Where did you find that piece of information because Ivy Bridge and Haswell dies aren't that much smaller than Sandy Bridge. I'm sure a company such as Intel could do it without much of a problem, it is just that they won't.

 

What it means is that the die is probably too small to get a consistent solder out of it. Its not that they wont do it because solder costs extra. It was most likely that they couldn't get a consistent weld and they were binning a lot of chips away just from quality control. 

 

Also, don't think that its going to be the same Lead/Tin mix that you use for soldering electronic components. They were using a different alloy to solder their heatspreaders so it doesn't behave in the same way

[TheProfosist]

The point of Devils Canyon is not the TIM. It's in the power delivery caps on the bottom. However, that only helps the sub - zero overclockers.

Intel actually said devils canyon would help those on air more than extreme overclockers.

[FireFox]

What it means is that the die is probably too small to get a consistent solder out of it. Its not that they wont do it because solder costs extra. It was most likely that they couldn't get a consistent weld and they were binning a lot of chips away just from quality control. 

 

Also, don't think that its going to be the same Lead/Tin mix that you use for soldering electronic components. They were using a different alloy to solder their heatspreaders so it doesn't behave in the same way

 

I unbderstand where you are coming from but a company such as Intel with what their capable of, I'm sure they would be able to figure it out. And fair enough even if it was the case what you've just mentioned, if thermal paste was the only option then why use that god aweful shit that they used with both Ivy Bridge and Haswell.

 

If it was me and I owned Intel, if it turned out that we couldn't solder anymore then I would have employed a decent thermal paste at least which to me suggests that it is infact money and they won't do it.