Anime Club - Heaven Society - Weekly Polling Discussion

[TheProfosist]

More or less.

 

Perhaps this is easier to convey without an explanation.

 

 

You are a fan of American comics, you like, own, and have read many. You participate online with others that share similar (enthusiastic) interest.

 

The recommendations consists of Batman, Spiderman, and Superman.

I disagree because of how many people actually asked about certain ones that I would consider classics. Also that is not just recommendations but a poll for what we plan to watch and discuss as a club. How many times have you actually discussed anything about say Cowboy Bebop anyway in depth. Not that we have had any real in depth discussion yet... If yo ujust want suggestions check out that picture I posted in the bottom of the OP.

Before showing people obscure gems you also should really provide them with a proper base. Which is why I find in annoying that many who are new to anime now days seems to instantly disregard anything that has a pre ~2007 animation style.

[TheProfosist]

Well guys im trying to put this together for week 10 so all help and ideas are appreciated!

This is kinda a what do you guys what to see in the table and what not. I dont know, but the more input the better!

A few more ideas I had. I think each anime should have its own randomly generated unique ID or number thats say 4-6 characters long. This is for doing the random one.

For the categories should each just have a number associated to it or should we just use the name of the category?

I think there should be at least be a date of when it was initially suggested if not also when it was last suggested.

I think we need to define what constitutes recent and current for the categories. For current I was thinking current season and back two or would you guys prefer a whole year back?

How would I implement the "weightedness" when something is suggested more than once?

If you guys have suggestions for layouts of the tables and such that would help as well.

[Fred Castellum]

I think we need to define what constitutes recent and current for the categories. For current I was thinking current season and back two or would you guys prefer a whole year back?

I prefer back two opposed to a whole year back. 

[Charger]

A few more ideas I had. I think each anime should have its own randomly generated unique ID or number thats say 4-6 characters long. This is for doing the random one.

For the categories should each just have a number associated to it or should we just use the name of the category?

How would I implement the "weightedness" when something is suggested more than once?

 

Although the idea of a unique number is interesting i don't know how it is helpful unless there is going to be a randomly picked anime every time. Or are you saying they are always going to be completely randomly picked from all categories? 

 

the usefulness of the number for each category also seems to go along with randomly picked from all categories and if that is the case i think that would be a useful idea and can easily be added to the front of the unique id number so that when you randomly pick you can just that at the to crate a range to pick the number in for each category.

 

the problem i see with adding the weighted suggestions into a randomly picked setup is the only real way i see that working is by doing a random generator to see if a weighted suggestion of or non weighted suggestion should be picked before trying to pick the anime. To me the weighted system works better in a non fully random setup where weighted suggestions are moved to the top of the list and the more times it was suggested the higher it moves up.

 

I think there should be at least be a date of when it was initially suggested if not also when it was last suggested.

I think we need to define what constitutes recent and current for the categories. For current I was thinking current season and back two or would you guys prefer a whole year back?

 

As far as the date added and last suggested i think it is more relevant to just keep track of the last time suggested since as long as it is still being suggested people think it is still relevant where as the original date it was added is less relevant to what are currently being suggested. I also don't real see the need for keeping the date in general since unless there is a plan to remove older things from the list bases on how long ago they were suggested I don't see it being useful and just adds a column of data that is of no use overall.

 

As far as defining what is recent or current i would say current is something that is still airing and recent was something that is finished airing before the current season unless you are grouping them together in which case i would say 2-3 seasons. 

[TheProfosist]

I just though about something else including the date it ended or began airing might be nice so then it wouldnt have to be looked up.

Also do you see anything wrong with requiring links to at least or two of theses places (ANN, AniDB, MAL, iMDB) when suggesting an anime? This would insure that we knew exactly which anime they were suggesting. I would also store these in the spreadsheet so I didnt have to look them up again.

Another idea might be to like have a week where we feature movies and multiple win or possibly feature series of movies and you watch them all like say patlabor.

I prefer back two opposed to a whole year back.

Ok that sounds fine to me.

Although the idea of a unique number is interesting i don't know how it is helpful unless there is going to be a randomly picked anime every time. Or are you saying they are always going to be completely randomly picked from all categories? 

 

the usefulness of the number for each category also seems to go along with randomly picked from all categories and if that is the case i think that would be a useful idea and can easily be added to the front of the unique id number so that when you randomly pick you can just that at the to crate a range to pick the number in for each category.

 

the problem i see with adding the weighted suggestions into a randomly picked setup is the only real way i see that working is by doing a random generator to see if a weighted suggestion of or non weighted suggestion should be picked before trying to pick the anime. To me the weighted system works better in a non fully random setup where weighted suggestions are moved to the top of the list and the more times it was suggested the higher it moves up.

 

 

As far as the date added and last suggested i think it is more relevant to just keep track of the last time suggested since as long as it is still being suggested people think it is still relevant where as the original date it was added is less relevant to what are currently being suggested. I also don't real see the need for keeping the date in general since unless there is a plan to remove older things from the list bases on how long ago they were suggested I don't see it being useful and just adds a column of data that is of no use overall.

 

As far as defining what is recent or current i would say current is something that is still airing and recent was something that is finished airing before the current season unless you are grouping them together in which case i would say 2-3 seasons.

The fifth anime each week will be randomly picked the rest will just be the next in line unless I feel it isnt a good fit with the other titles. This reminds me we probably need a column called queue so we know in which order they are. Also just a reminder if something looses it will be sent down to the bottom of the list unless something like it lost by one point or something.

The ID numbers dont have to be random I guess we could just start 0001 and the as there added just increase the number. The thing about putting the category number in front would work but would have to change it when it came off of current.

I might just not do the weighted suggestions at all. Still think it would be a good idea to record how many possibly for special voting weeks or something

I was just going to keep a date so idk I know how long something has been in the list? keeping the most recent suggestion date would be the same as your reasoning.

ok so the category "current" is the current season and two back from it. What about recent how far back should it go or I guess a better question is when to cut off the "Post 2007" category. Also about the categories there may be some around 2006-2008 that could end up on a side other than their date due to not actually folling that "style". I guess this means that the categories may need new names...

[Charger]

I just though about something else including the date it ended or began airing might be nice so then it wouldnt have to be looked up.

Also do you see anything wrong with requiring links to at least or two of theses places (ANN, AniDB, MAL, iMDB) when suggesting an anime? This would insure that we knew exactly which anime they were suggesting. I would also store these in the spreadsheet so I didnt have to look them up again.

There is little point of keeping track of the date so you don't have to look it up as it should be listed in the links that would be required if you add that in which i think is a good idea.

 

Another idea might be to like have a week where we feature movies and multiple win or possibly feature series of movies and you watch them all like say patlabor.

The fifth anime each week will be randomly picked the rest will just be the next in line unless I feel it isnt a good fit with the other titles. This reminds me we probably need a column called queue so we know in which order they are. Also just a reminder if something looses it will be sent down to the bottom of the list unless something like it lost by one point or something.

 

I agree with all of that quote lol

 

The ID numbers dont have to be random I guess we could just start 0001 and the as there added just increase the number. The thing about putting the category number in front would work but would have to change it when it came off of current.

I might just not do the weighted suggestions at all. Still think it would be a good idea to record how many possibly for special voting weeks or something

I was just going to keep a date so idk I know how long something has been in the list? keeping the most recent suggestion date would be the same as your reasoning.

 

I would say there is no need for the category number unless it was all random. If it is just one random a week I see no reason to add what category it is unless it is a themed week or something like that were everything is from the same category. If that is ever considered it may be a good idea to have that in from the start instead of adding it later but that wouldn't be that hard anyways.

I think the weighted suggestions are a good idea for the normal things that would be pulled from the list. If one things has 2 people suggesting it then it goes to the top of the list and every anime that has 2 after that would go under that. If a 3rd suggestion for one is added then move it to the top again and so on. This is more work although there maybe a way to do that with a script although I'm not sure.

Back to the date discussion i see no reason specifically not to have it i just also see little reason to have it. If things are added to the list from the top down they will be in order of when they were first added with the newest on the bottom. With the weighted system the things added later with more then one person recommending them would move them to the top showing they are more relevant to what people may currently be interested in.

 

ok so the category "current" is the current season and two back from it. What about recent how far back should it go or I guess a better question is when to cut off the "Post 2007" category. Also about the categories there may be some around 2006-2008 that could end up on a side other than their date due to not actually folling that "style". I guess this means that the categories may need new names...

As you have pointed out about the category numbers if you do something that is constantly changing you will have to move things around in the doc so maybe it would be a good idea to have just a recent category and not a current category so that you wouldn't need to move things around all that much. Again this is something that may be able to be handled with scripts if you have the date the season started or ended but upfront it is more work to have 2 categories that have a similar time frame that is always shifting. If it uses fixed dates it would be less work.

[TheProfosist]

There is little point of keeping track of the date so you don't have to look it up as it should be listed in the links that would be required if you add that in which i think is a good idea.

 

 

I agree with all of that quote lol

 

 

I would say there is no need for the category number unless it was all random. If it is just one random a week I see no reason to add what category it is unless it is a themed week or something like that were everything is from the same category. If that is ever considered it may be a good idea to have that in from the start instead of adding it later but that wouldn't be that hard anyways.

I think the weighted suggestions are a good idea for the normal things that would be pulled from the list. If one things has 2 people suggesting it then it goes to the top of the list and every anime that has 2 after that would go under that. If a 3rd suggestion for one is added then move it to the top again and so on. This is more work although there maybe a way to do that with a script although I'm not sure.

Back to the date discussion i see no reason specifically not to have it i just also see little reason to have it. If things are added to the list from the top down they will be in order of when they were first added with the newest on the bottom. With the weighted system the things added later with more then one person recommending them would move them to the top showing they are more relevant to what people may currently be interested in.

 

As you have pointed out about the category numbers if you do something that is constantly changing you will have to move things around in the doc so maybe it would be a good idea to have just a recent category and not a current category so that you wouldn't need to move things around all that much. Again this is something that may be able to be handled with scripts if you have the date the season started or ended but upfront it is more work to have 2 categories that have a similar time frame that is always shifting. If it uses fixed dates it would be less work.

Works for me we can just have the links

sounds good ill do just that then

category name/num not really need anymore since there are going to be different spreadsheets.

I think your way of weighting is much too weighting. What if we did something simple like everytime its suggested it moves up one spot in the queue

The newest addition will not always be on the bottom because if something looses itll get kicked down to the bottom. Hmm I wonder if there is some easy way to auto generate that queue number I talked about.

[Charger]

I think your way of weighting is much too weighting. What if we did something simple like everytime its suggested it moves up one spot in the queue

 

I agree that mine may be too weighted but your idea would not be weighted enough lol. If it becomes a long list of anime then moving up one spot doesn't really change anything. if it is say the 50th on the list and moves up one even with the top one coming off the top and going to the bottom it is still only 48 I feel it should go up more then one spot since that would really have little to no effect on a longer list. However if it is a shorter list of 5 or less that may be a way to go. We could always make the amount it moves be in relation to the size of the list.

[TheProfosist]

I agree that mine may be too weighted but your idea would not be weighted enough lol. If it becomes a long list of anime then moving up one spot doesn't really change anything. if it is say the 50th on the list and moves up one even with the top one coming off the top and going to the bottom it is still only 48 I feel it should go up more then one spot since that would really have little to no effect on a longer list. However if it is a shorter list of 5 or less that may be a way to go. We could always make the amount it moves be in relation to the size of the list.

"We could always make the amount it moves be in relation to the size of the list."

I think the way it should go.

[Legion]

1 : I just though about something else including the date it ended or began airing might be nice so then it wouldnt have to be looked up.

2 : Also do you see anything wrong with requiring links to at least or two of theses places (ANN, AniDB, MAL, iMDB) when suggesting an anime? This would insure that we knew exactly which anime they were suggesting. I would also store these in the spreadsheet so I didnt have to look them up again.

3: Another idea might be to like have a week where we feature movies and multiple win or possibly feature series of movies and you watch them all like say patlabor.

4: I was just going to keep a date so idk I know how long something has been in the list? keeping the most recent suggestion date would be the same as your reasoning.

5: ok so the category "current" is the current season and two back from it. What about recent how far back should it go or I guess a better question is when to cut off the "Post 2007" category. Also about the categories there may be some around 2006-2008 that could end up on a side other than their date due to not actually folling that "style". I guess this means that the categories may need new names...

 

 

I just seen this now, so sorry for my late contribution.

 

1 : I think this would be a useful idea, especially end date as it can help then with deciding which category it falls into. You could use the start date but then long series could cause a few issues. But I can't think of a show that started in 2006 and is running now.

 

2 : I think this would be a great idea considering I wasn't too clear with which GITS I was recommending and confused a few people when it came  to the voting.

 

3 : Maybe once a month or every two months.

 

4 : This would help considering it leaves some things that are stuck in the list and after say 6 months or so you could but it to a vote to move them to another list which will be for things that don't seem to get much attention or just drop them to the bottom of the original list.

 

5: I think the post 2007 category could be solved with my thoughts on number 1. If it finished airing in 2007 or before its post 2007.

 

These are just my thoughts but they are rather rushed as I just read through this thread as quick as I could to get up to speed.

 

 

Also I wonder if there is a way to get more discussion out of the selected anime. To do this someone(s) would really have to lead the charge on this part and try and engage people on/width stuff. I personally think a 24-26 ep series is too much to finish in one week but many of people seem to be fine with it. This doesnt mean that starting a new series cant happen just that the other thread should still be "current" if you know what I mean.

 

 

Maybe extend the talk for two weeks

Week 1 Hyouka starts. 

Week 2 Madoka starts.

Week 3 Death Note Starts && Hyouka Finishes. 

Week 4 Vampire Princess Miyu Starts && Madoka Finishes.

 

It might be too much a pain to manage though. It would also leave the problem of the fast viewers might move on quicker.

 

 

I dunno just some of my thoughts as I read through this thread

 

 

Also @MyInnerFred how can you not post a gif of this man when someone mentions Databases I was disappointed

[Fred Castellum]

Also @MyInnerFred how can you not post a gif of this man when someone mentions Databases I was disappointed

Problem is I can't find a gif of him saying he's a database. On top of that my mentality is quite similar to Oreki's so I'm too lazy to go and make one myself. 

 

But praise Satoshi~!

[Legion]

On top of that my mentality is quite similar to Oreki's so I'm too lazy to go and make one myself. 

 

 

You and me both.

[TheProfosist]

Here is the new Heaven Society anime suggestion submission thread

[Charger]

It seems that is it time to being this topic back up to continue a discussion that was started in the recent poll thread and to get other members opinion of what we are currently doing and what we should change to make the system better. If you have any suggestions or feedback on our current system please let us know about it here.

@MyInnerFred and @Luclocke (if you are even still relevant to how this club is ran) please join in this discussion.

 

I'm still not sure there's any value in suggesting something so recent that people have likely watched (or are watching) it anyway. Especially currently-airing stuff. Wouldn't the point of this sort of thing be to expand the horizons of the club members, not just reinforce their comfort zones? Note that I'm not really complaining about the actual picks, I'm just not sure whether there's any point in voting for stuff people are likely to watch anyway if they're anime fans.

 

 

im not against changing how we do stuff. Up untill last season I had never even watched an anime as it aired other then on tv back in the early to mid 2000s so even new stuff is still likely not stuff I have seen. Also I tend to pay more attention to what is in the poll then what really wins anyway as I dont really care what wins as much as what interests me in the polls.

 

 

How do I put this not everyone including me watches every anime as I comes out like you apparently do.

As for comfort zones that's really up for vote. As I've said before nothing I've ever voted for has won. And based on previous experience that's to be expected, well unless I just make the poll all my choices and stuff them down your throat until you want them. I can almost guarantee that there is a bunch of really great anime most in the club havnt even heard of. Many of these are shorts.

Also the likely to watch is relative because I attest to some of the best anime being pre-2007. There are a number of people in this club alone that refuse to watch older stuff based on animation alone.

Even for me though there are time that I just have to take a break and watch something like The Familiar of Zero f9r the fun of it.

 

 

That's what it comes down to. This isn't my club, it's our club. If this is what we want, I don't mind.

I just get the impression that it's kinda pointless to bother voting on something the club is already going to be talking about (when we actually bother talking about anime), and doubly so when it's just one or two person's enjoyment that's in question. But if this is just for the thrill of voting on something, and who cares about whether the anime we're choosing are all well-known and such, then this system is fine.

We don't really need to change anything, I just figured I'd ask some questions to shake things up and see whether this system is what the current club really wants, that's all.

 

 

I'm not even sure this club talks about anime really even with these threads. I will agree that our system probably isn't the best setup and could use work but what would we change? As it is right now we are just going down a list of things that members have suggested if we change that what would we do?

so far we have had it keep decently distributed through the different categories

8 from pre-2007

10 from post-2007

7 from recent

9 form current

(yes it doesn't add up to 45 because not all polls were made from the spread sheet and ova/movies have 3 wins as well)

Now I will say my spread sheet system is rather flawed since as it is right now the dates for recent and current are not changing unlike it was originally planned that current would be the last 3 seasons and recent was last 2 years i think but that is a pain in the ass to go through and change categories around like that so it has stayed the same. We don't keep track of genres or popularity so we end up with polls of the same kind of anime or will a clear winner that becomes clear after only a few votes. I'm not against changing things around but I'm not the one that even started this system i just ended up being the only one doing it.

tl:dr it is flawed feel free to fix it

 

 

LOL. As long as you don't think I don't appreciate the effort you're putting in

Thing is, as long as we're just going by user suggestions, there's not that much we can do if we also want a vote system. One interesting approach I've seen (adapted to anime) was to just ask the most active people on the forum that week which anime they want to try that they HAVEN'T watched yet, and limit it to anime that are already completely over, and can be watched in a week's time. Those would be the anime we vote on.

But that might not work here. We might have to do a round-robin thing instead of picking "the most active" users, for instance. But it might be more interesting, and this way eventually everyone should be able to get a pick in. Or it might make people feel too singled-out for all I know.

 

 

what the club was first doing was taking suggestions by pm, I was not really a fan of that since it was a closed system where no one really knew if what was in the polls was even really suggested by people or if it was just the person making the thread that picked things. I'm not sure that asking people here would really be that good if an idea that well know members have already had their favorite anime win the polls just because they have been posting about it for a long time before the polls and I know I tend to just end up watching things kind of haphazard with no really plan of wanting to watch something more but more just finding something to watch.

Now an idea is getting a different user to come up with things to put in a poll each week but I think that may be better for special weeks and not the standard. We have done this a few times or just picked anime for a week and that does seem to work but finding people that want to do that for each week can be a problem and it would still be me or fred likely making the threads since it is far more of a pain in the ass then it should be lol

 

 

Sure, I don't want to leave you guys with more work either. To be honest, I'd rather that the others chimed in too, since there's quite a few newer recruits lately. Maybe we should try moving this discussion to the main thread like last time instead?

[TheProfosist]

hey im interested in other styles as long as they work and dont add more work onto the person doing the poll.

[Charger]

hey im interested in other styles as long as they work and dont ad more work onto the person doing the poll.

im far more interested if it take work away from the person doing the polls lol

[TheProfosist]

im far more interested if it take work away from the person doing the polls lol

That would be even better

[JLCitadel]

That would be even better

 

Mind saving me some time and tell me directly why I've been summoned and how I can be of assistance? You've caught me on a good weekend to help.

[Charger]

Mind saving me some time and tell me directly why I've been summoned and how I can be of assistance? You've caught me on a good weekend to help.

input on the polling system and discussion about changing things

[JLCitadel]

input on the polling system and discussion about changing things

 

Any ideas in mind? & Goals? What are we trying to change, avoid, or make new?

[Charger]

Any ideas in mind? & Goals? What are we trying to change, avoid, or make new?

Not really sure at the moment bash has been questioning things so i though it would be best to bring it up again.

 

As in, you'd rather not watch less common anime?

 there is nothing wrong with uncommon anime the hard part is trying to pick what ended up in the polls

 

Even if we recommend a less common anime and it goes up for voting, no one votes for those anime. People keep voting for the more popular ones.

 

I'd recommend keeping a week where only less common anime are put up for voting, with no well known anime on the list.

 its hard to know what is less common with out knowing every thing about anime. I think alot of things end up winning just because of the image picked. Sorting the anime to common and uncommon is not that easy of a task.

 

I figured we'd only nominate more obscure ones (note: not entirely unknown/unappealing ones), and ones that are about at the same popularity based on anime sites' rankings. But if the club really does want to just watch popular anime, that's fine. At that point let's drop the more obscure stuff entirely, and only nominate stuff that's at about the same popularity - otherwise it feels like a sham to me?

To be honest, the problem I have with my own idea is that I'm not sure if the lesser-known anime will be as easy for people to access. Maybe that should be the bigger criteria?

we all know that site rankings are complete bullshit anyways so that doesnt seem like a real way to go

[Xsinar]

its hard to know what is less common with out knowing every thing about anime. I think alot of things end up winning just because of the image picked. Sorting the anime to common and uncommon is not that easy of a task.

 

That's a good point, the first step would be to avoid putting one anime that everyone's going to vote for and the rest not receiving any votes. With that said I like the one's that are up for voting this week it seems more balanced, when compared to what happens some times.

 

Now not to confuse things, I am not against putting popular anime for votes. I just saying to avoid something like this from happening...

 

 

For example in this ^ why is Kingdom on the same list as Full Metal Panic! or Bakuman.

[BashZeStampeedo]

For example in this ^ why is Kingdom on the same list as Full Metal Panic! or Bakuman.

Precisely. At the very least it might be good to take a quick glance at the MAL/anime-planet type rankings/popularity before deciding on things... though I do realize that would be more of a burden on the person running the contest. But perhaps a script could be developed to help group the list of anime by certain criteria? I'm sure there's enough programming talent here among us to figure something out, assuming we can decide on an approach.

[Charger]

Precisely. At the very least it might be good to take a quick glance at the MAL/anime-planet type rankings/popularity before deciding on things... though I do realize that would be more of a burden on the person running the contest. But perhaps a script could be developed to help group the list of anime by certain criteria? I'm sure there's enough programming talent here among us to figure something out, assuming we can decide on an approach.

currently I'm the one putting all the information into the spread sheets since I'm already manually pulling things from mal to begin with it wouldnt be that hard for me to copy that over as well. the problem would be going back and doing that for the anime that is already in the sheet

[BashZeStampeedo]

currently I'm the one putting all the information into the spread sheets since I'm already manually pulling things from mal to begin with it wouldnt be that hard for me to copy that over as well. the problem would be going back and doing that for the anime that is already in the sheet

Yeah, sorting it by rating/popularity might be a good way to group them... and then just pick ones that are "close together" but also different genres/ages like we're doing right now? I'd have to see how good the data is to know if it's viable to go with something that simple. Getting the actual data for ones you don't have in the spreadsheet might be a pain, but it's possible that a simple script could pull that info out... hard to say.