Frame rate woes again, is it Vegas?

[porina]

My current toy is a DJI Osmo Pocket 3. I'm recording video on it at 4k "60fps" according to the UI. The output files report themselves to be 59.94fps, or double NTSC.

 

I noticed some apparent stutter where if I put the file into Vegas 16 as a 59.94 fps project, most of the time if I advance one frame, I get a new frame as expected. Sometimes, for every 3 frames I advance, the 3rd frame is a duplicate of the 2nd, and the output can stutter somewhat. I found if I set the project to 60.00 fps, it seems like those moments give one frame in/out. I haven't yet checked if this has other side effects, or if it moves the problem to another part of the file.

 

I also got Vegas 19 recently as part of a Humble Bundle but not tried it yet, since it means some pain getting everything customised.

 

I'm wondering if this is some thing with frame rate conversions, or if it is some Vegas thing given I had encountered something else similar not long ago: 

 

 

[Kilrah]

Got a sample file?

I'd say try doing frame by frame in a more simple program and see if there are gaps/jumps

[porina]

20 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

I'd say try doing frame by frame in a more simple program and see if there are gaps/jumps

Original files seem ok if played e.g. by VLC. I think it is something about how Vegas interprets the data onto the timeline that could be the problem here. I've done some more random checking with a 60.00 fps timeline and it seems to work, so that could be a workaround for me.

 

I recall Taran did a video on this topic a while so I'll have to look up again to see if I'm missing anything.

[Kilrah]

Would still be interesting to see what e.g. mediainfo says about a file or to try to "interpret" it differently in Premiere/Resolve. 

Wouldn't be the first time a DJI camera films in 60 but writes 59.94 in the metadata...

 

Still got a pocket 2, haven't moved to the 3 due to little use...

[porina]

10 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Would still be interesting to see what e.g. mediainfo says about a file

General
CompleteName                     : 
Format/String                    : MPEG-4
Format_Profile                   : Base Media
CodecID/String                   : isom (isom/iso2/mp41)
FileSize/String                  : 11.0 GiB
Duration/String                  : 13 min 39 s
OverallBitRate/String            : 115 Mb/s
FrameRate/String                 : 59.940 FPS
Encoded_Date                     : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC
Tagged_Date                      : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC
Encoded_Application/String       : DJI OsmoPocket3
Cover                            : Yes
snal                             : (Binary)
tnal                             : (Binary)

Video
ID/String                        : 1
Format/String                    : HEVC
Format/Info                      : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format_Profile                   : Main 10@L5@High
CodecID                          : hvc1
CodecID/Info                     : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration/String                  : 13 min 39 s
BitRate/String                   : 110 Mb/s
Width/String                     : 3 840 pixels
Height/String                    : 2 160 pixels
DisplayAspectRatio/String        : 16:9
FrameRate_Mode/String            : Constant
FrameRate/String                 : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
FrameRate_Original/String        : 59.940 (59940/1000) FPS
ColorSpace                       : YUV
ChromaSubsampling/String         : 4:2:0
BitDepth/String                  : 10 bits
Bits-(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.221
StreamSize/String                : 10.5 GiB (95%)
Encoded_Date                     : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC
Tagged_Date                      : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC
colour_range                     : Limited
colour_primaries                 : BT.709
transfer_characteristics         : BT.709
matrix_coefficients              : BT.709
CodecConfigurationBox            : hvcC

Audio
ID/String                        : 2
Format/String                    : AAC LC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
CodecID                          : mp4a-40-2
Duration/String                  : 13 min 39 s
BitRate_Mode/String              : Constant
BitRate/String                   : 317 kb/s
Channel(s)/String                : 2 channels
ChannelLayout                    : L R
SamplingRate/String              : 48.0 kHz
FrameRate/String                 : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression_Mode/String          : Lossy
StreamSize/String                : 31.0 MiB (0%)
Default/String                   : Yes
AlternateGroup/String            : 1
Encoded_Date                     : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC
Tagged_Date                      : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC

Other #1
ID/String                        : 3
Type                             : meta
Format/String                    : djmd
CodecID                          : djmd
Duration/String                  : 13 min 39 s
BitRate_Mode/String              : Variable
Title                            : DJI meta
Default/String                   : No
AlternateGroup/String            : 5
Encoded_Date                     : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC
Tagged_Date                      : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC

Other #2
ID/String                        : 4
Type                             : meta
Format/String                    : dbgi
CodecID                          : dbgi
Duration/String                  : 13 min 39 s
BitRate_Mode/String              : Variable
Title                            : DJI dbgi
Default/String                   : No
AlternateGroup/String            : 5
Encoded_Date                     : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC
Tagged_Date                      : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC

Other #3
ID/String                        : 6
Type                             : Time code
Format/String                    : QuickTime TC
Duration/String                  : 13 min 39 s
FrameRate/String                 : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
TimeCode_FirstFrame              : 19:47:44;03
TimeCode_LastFrame               : 20:01:23;19
TimeCode_Stripped/String         : Yes
Default/String                   : No
AlternateGroup/String            : 2
Encoded_Date                     : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC
Tagged_Date                      : 2024-01-01 14:59:43 UTC

I find the following lines interesting:

FrameRate/String                 : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
FrameRate_Original/String        : 59.940 (59940/1000) FPS

 

The upper one is approximately 59.94006 fps or would be one frame difference in about 4.6 hours. Ok, maybe that's not it.  

 

Timecode is in 29.97 format? This is beyond my depth.

[porina]

Just tried the same file in Vegas 19, at 59.94 fps timeline. I don't see the effect happening, although I can't say I tested the exact same spot I saw the problem in 16 as I forgot to note where exactly that was. I did try various locations in 19 and none of them did it, so I'm going to put this one down to 16 being old enough to have some problems.

 

Guess this is more incentive for me to make the switch to the newer version.