CableMod to recall all 12VHPWR angled adapters

[jagdtigger]

12 hours ago, Thaldor said:

That first tread patterned tires came out in 1920's and would probably still work as tires

Apple vs orange, but if you insist id rather have a 1920 tire than a 2023 one if the newer is known to have rather frequent blow-out and treads detaching (in other words catastrophic failure)......... As i said before, slap on 2 EPS connectors and you have a hair more than 600W without the fire hazard.

[Thaldor]

41 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

As i said before, slap on 2 EPS connectors and you have a hair more than 600W without the fire hazard.

2 still lands you at 24A per connector which isn't recommended by MOLEX, you would need 3 to get under that 20A per connector.

 

Like seriously, the ATX3.0 is supposed to replace the ATX2.whatever and be pretty much incompatible with it because we need more power than the ATX2.whatever standards can handle. We will need new PSU's in the future when they figure out do they go the Intel way, use some backplane for power distribution or remain the same but change up the connector keying and add some shit into them. At least they could update the Mini-Fit Jr. connectors to have some modern safety systems that aren't fucking rocket science, like throw the clip on top away and add two beefier clips to the sides (which some companies already use with their extension cables), that already would help a lot. Moving to something like Stac64 that is used in automotive industry (I haven't heard them having any connector problems, unlike people with 2000€ GPUs) would be like starting a new era, it still cannot hold the wanted 50A@12V without heating up, just 30A but that is still more than 20A that the current connectors are rated for.

[jagdtigger]

10 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

2 still lands you at 24A per connector which isn't recommended by MOLEX, you would need 3 to get under that 20A per connector.

https://gcctech.org/cec/powersupply/All about the various PC power supply cables and connectors.htm#eps8

Max current for the 8 pin EPS is 7 amps per circuit, so 28 per connector and 336 in total.

Edited December 23, 2023 by jagdtigger

[Uttamattamakin]

According to Jay this is happening even with connectors that are well plugged in.   This is not user error.   

Basic physics that applies to both electricity and also to hydraulics.  Pushing more energy through a smaller connector, in any form, has to be done very carefully.  There is a natural tendency for things to heat up in those situations.  Hopefully PCI SIG will go for a design that is more robust, bigger, perhaps even overengineered so that there is more margin for imperfection.  Imperfection in installation, in manufacture, and so on.   

[naylor2006]

I really miss the 2 x 8 Pin power cables, I had these on my 3080 but now with my 4080 I do indeed have a Cable Mod 1.1 angled adapter. I have one because even with my Fractual Pop Air the normal cable mod straight cable will foul the side panel and I dont want to apply pressure to the connection, for fear of it coming loose or whatever and burning out.

 

Problem with the adapters generally is the extra points of failure, alot of folks already going to have 3-4 8 pins going into one nice single 12VHPWR cable and then in addition that goes into a right angle adapter, thats like 5 points of potential failure for me.

 

Interesting the statement is because on one hand it seems unlikely and on the other they are stressing no one should use the adapters under any circumstances.

 

It has come to our attention that certain CableMod 12VHPWR Angled Adapter V1.1s may be defective.

 

.....Right so 'certain' and 'may be'.....from that statement we are talking about a very small amount of cases where this occurs, only certain ones fail and only those certain ones might do...Ultimately its not worth the risk if you have a 1400 quid GPU. Does the problem more effect the 4090 where the power draw is so high??

 

because of the potential risk that the male connector could become loose, overheat, and melt into the GPU.

 

.....again here they are talking about a potential risk that the connector could come loose and then overheat and then melt into the GPU. The wording again kinda plays it down. Right so what if mine doesnt magically work its way loose, I always check it it I move anything around in the case or cable management. I saw Jay above talk about emails he had from those where it was definitely seated perfectly and still failed...but again in what conditions? I look forward to the Gamers Nexus vid on this stuff because their deep dive on the original connections was incredible...will they be able to replicate.

 

STOP USING THEM IMMEDIATELY

 

.....and of course we do have this line which is more categoric.

 

------------------------------

 

There has to be a few cases at least for a recall to be announced, Cablemod do not want to be liable for peoples cards and get into some sort of mess between user error and not, but they must have tested these adapters before shipping them out knowing the potential issues with this new stupid power delivery. Seems very much a cover our butts thing because a batch wasnt quite made right or something. Mine has never even been warm to the touch but I really dont want to risk my 4080 now Cablemod have dropped this info because now it can only be my fault. Having said that I would like to see some public thorough testing now. 

[Fetzie]

1 hour ago, naylor2006 said:

Mine has never even been warm to the touch but I really dont want to risk my 4080 now Cablemod have dropped this info because now it can only be my fault. Having said that I would like to see some public thorough testing now. 

More to the point, your home contents insurer might take a dim view of you continuing to use a device that has specifically been recalled due to the risk of overheating and melting things if yours actually were to cause a fire, and refuse to cover the damage. Could end up costing considerably more than the 1200 bucks/euros for a new 4080.

[naylor2006]

1 hour ago, Fetzie said:

More to the point, your home contents insurer might take a dim view of you continuing to use a device that has specifically been recalled due to the risk of overheating and melting things if yours actually were to cause a fire, and refuse to cover the damage. Could end up costing considerably more than the 1200 bucks/euros for a new 4080.

Yeah but that’s crazy, hypothetically if I left it in…., when I’m gaming I’m about a foot away from rigs window, any sign of smoke/fire etc would be so blooming obviously if I left it on and ran away to let my house burn down I deserve all I get  The computers never left on when I’m not using it so I don’t see how suddenly it’s going to spontaneously combust and burn my house down any more than an extension lead in use somewhere. (Power Brick for our NA friends)

 

Insurers are constantly trying to get out of paying out so I’m not stupid enough to take risks.

 

I maintain however, I’d like to see some evidence to point to the chances of it happening, Gamers Nexus analysed all the original issues and worked it out to be so rare it wasn’t really worth worrying about, so are these adapters 100’s of times worse, I’m curious so just asking the questions. What I’m not doing is saying YOLO everyone should just keep using it.

 

Only recently finished my new rig, can’t post my existing pictures now without a pile on haha

[Quackers101]

about this connector, its going in circles.

[Thaldor]

On 12/23/2023 at 3:21 PM, jagdtigger said:

https://gcctech.org/cec/powersupply/All about the various PC power supply cables and connectors.htm#eps8

Max current for the 8 pin EPS is 7 amps per circuit, so 28 per connector and 336 in total.

 I will take the L for the current limits. But I will still die on the hill saying that the 12VHPWR should use more modern connector for the other things like the double sided locking, guiderails and similar pretty much QoL upgrades the Mini-Fit Jr. has received. and even when the 12VHPWR actually uses the micro-fit connector I still stand on the hill saying it should have more than the flimsy one clip on the top to secure it.

 

At least it should use the more common with wire-to-wore applications side locking where there's clips on the both sides of the connector.

[jagdtigger]

10 hours ago, Thaldor said:

But I will still die on the hill saying that the 12VHPWR should use more modern connector for the other things like the double sided locking, guiderails and similar pretty much QoL upgrades the Mini-Fit Jr. has received. and even when the 12VHPWR actually uses the micro-fit connector I still stand on the hill saying it should have more than the flimsy one clip on the top to secure it.

You cant fix a bottleneck issue by adding more retaining force. These connectors burn up because it has literally 0 tolerance, there is no safety headroom. What the max spec says is the design max.
 

 

Edited January 1 by jagdtigger

[RejZoR]

What I don't understand is why wasn't 8pin connector specs updated. Like, who is going to have a 20 years old PSU around (I don't even think those came wirth 9pin, I think 6pin was the most back then) and hooking up a 1500€ graphic card to it? Who? We all know 8pin is capable of delivering up to 250W of power per connector with no issues, 230W safely and 220W with more reserve just to be sure. Having 3x, that's 660W of power just for graphic card. It may not sound like a lot against 150W which is what's rated by specs, but when 3 are involved, having extra 70W per connector is A LOT. That's 210W extra that you can use, on top of 450W that you get from 3x stock 8pins operating at spec. So, 660W total. Instead they opted for this stupid "high power" connector that has been an issue since its inception.

 

In fact I have no clue why they even made it so tiny. If you know you'll be pumping so much power through connector that's relatively regularly unplugged and plugged, make more durable and chunkier terminals with better pressure and better contact surface. Just look at SCHUKO power sockets in Europe. It's chunky, way chunkier than US plugs, but it has much stronger terminals, much better contact, built in grounding and is designed in such way that you cannot touch its live contacts because they only make contact when inserted so far you can't touch the terminals anymore. It was really well thought out design that I frankly don't think we'll change for next 100 years. And you can pump 3680W of power through it at 16A (230V).

 

To translate that with computer power supplies and graphic cards, they could easily make connector much more chunky, with better contacts and since big ass graphic cards are not a new thing for last 15 years or so, factory angled reinforced connectors should be a thing. Modular power supplies should just come with one and manufacturers should offer extra cables for inverted angled plugs as well as straight ones. Or just fucking talk with manufacturers to not do inverted plugs nonsense as a standard so you only have to make 1 angled type and one straight type that's more uncommon and could be purchased separately. No one would mind if plug was as big as 2x8pin and would actually connect correctly and securely no matter what.

 

Instead they rushed this stupid whimpy tiny 12V high power garbage that's plagued with problems since day 1. It's so bad I'm in no rush to replace my 8pin powered PSU or the graphic card. It may sound angry, because I am and everyone involved are at fault, including Intel, NVIDIA and PCI-SIG who are primary parties in making of this dumb plug.

[dogwitch]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

What I don't understand is why wasn't 8pin connector specs updated. Like, who is going to have a 20 years old PSU around (I don't even think those came wirth 9pin, I think 6pin was the most back then) and hooking up a 1500€ graphic card to it? Who? We all know 8pin is capable of delivering up to 250W of power per connector with no issues, 230W safely and 220W with more reserve just to be sure. Having 3x, that's 660W of power just for graphic card. It may not sound like a lot against 150W which is what's rated by specs, but when 3 are involved, having extra 70W per connector is A LOT. That's 210W extra that you can use, on top of 450W that you get from 3x stock 8pins operating at spec. So, 660W total. Instead they opted for this stupid "high power" connector that has been an issue since its inception.

 

In fact I have no clue why they even made it so tiny. If you know you'll be pumping so much power through connector that's relatively regularly unplugged and plugged, make more durable and chunkier terminals with better pressure and better contact surface. Just look at SCHUKO power sockets in Europe. It's chunky, way chunkier than US plugs, but it has much stronger terminals, much better contact, built in grounding and is designed in such way that you cannot touch its live contacts because they only make contact when inserted so far you can't touch the terminals anymore. It was really well thought out design that I frankly don't think we'll change for next 100 years. And you can pump 3680W of power through it at 16A (230V).

 

To translate that with computer power supplies and graphic cards, they could easily make connector much more chunky, with better contacts and since big ass graphic cards are not a new thing for last 15 years or so, factory angled reinforced connectors should be a thing. Modular power supplies should just come with one and manufacturers should offer extra cables for inverted angled plugs as well as straight ones. Or just fucking talk with manufacturers to not do inverted plugs nonsense as a standard so you only have to make 1 angled type and one straight type that's more uncommon and could be purchased separately. No one would mind if plug was as big as 2x8pin and would actually connect correctly and securely no matter what.

 

Instead they rushed this stupid whimpy tiny 12V high power garbage that's plagued with problems since day 1. It's so bad I'm in no rush to replace my 8pin powered PSU or the graphic card. It may sound angry, because I am and everyone involved are at fault, including Intel, NVIDIA and PCI-SIG who are primary parties in making of this dumb plug.

its the consumer version. to save manf cost.

server/hpc has had no  issue with theirs.

 

[Stahlmann]

On 12/22/2023 at 12:35 PM, John Reactor said:

I have different solution to this problem.
Maybe NVIDIA and AMD should try to design more power efficient GPUs instead current watt devouring monsters?

Newer generations are almost always more power efficient than older generations. But instead of keeping it at the same performance levels while decreasing power consumption they use the additional headroom for even more performance. On top of that they creep the power consumption even higher with each new generation. But that's exactly what the consumers want. There have been polls by tech YouTubers like Hardware Unboxed and the community always heavily tilted towards raw processing power being much more important to them than energy efficiency.

 

But i still agree with the general sentiment that this connector should be taken off the market for the next generation of GPU's and they should either go back to regular PCIe power cables or just develop a good connector.

[ravenshrike]

On 1/1/2024 at 1:39 PM, dogwitch said:

its the consumer version. to save manf cost.

server/hpc has had no  issue with theirs.

 

Max TDP of the A100 that uses the connector is 300 watts. The special server baseboards that run up to 500+ watts per GPU don't use the connector.

[dogwitch]

13 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

Max TDP of the A100 that uses the connector is 300 watts. The special server baseboards that run up to 500+ watts per GPU don't use the connector.

H100 PCIe card pull alot more then a100

[ravenshrike]

5 hours ago, dogwitch said:

H100 PCIe card pull alot more then a100

The H100 single PCIe max is 350. Dual PCIe with presumably more than one connector as well, 400. However, thats total power to the GPU. Minus the 75 watts that the board supplies, you're looking at 275 and 325 max respectively. Just on either side of half of what the connector is purportedly rated for. The reference 4090 is 450, or 375 through the connector, before overclocking. What's more, the consumer GPUs have significantly nastier power spikes than the commercial GPUs.