Humane AI Pin yay or nay?

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, Middcore said:

 

I hope you're paraphrasing this badly because as stated it's ridiculous. There are lots of technologies where no innovation has occurred for a long time which are nevertheless far from obsolete. 

dont think i paraphrased anything badly when it's literally the video title = )

 

 

 

 

[Middcore]

4 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

dont think i paraphrased anything badly when it's literally the video title = )

 

The title of the video is "The End of the Smartphone is Near."

 

What you said is "Smartphones are becoming obsolete because there is no innovation."

 

The latter could be used as an argument for the former, but it would be a bad one. It's certainly not the case that what you said is the video title, though. 

[someb0dys]

Good that some innovation is coming, but the subscription will ruin it if it is even good for the majority of people. AI is good just this probably isn't the way to go about it, especially since it can be wrong at points and I believe it to be a health hazard if we rely on it for example to check for allergies for example.

 

Flawed design, decent concept.

[Mark Kaine]

47 minutes ago, someb0dys said:

Flawed design, decent concept.

i mean, yes, i have all those concerns as well, but im not entirely sure if its really flawed...

 

it really depends on A) how accurate the AI stuff is, B) how good/usable the projector really is... rest of the design seems sound... but the point is we dont know...?

 

the presentation was more like just that, showing off how its intended to work and look, it didn't have to be flawless at this point, even though it would have been nice if it was, i guess, lol.

 

[maplepants]

1 hour ago, someb0dys said:

AI is good just this probably isn't the way to go about it, especially since it can be wrong at points and I believe it to be a health hazard if we rely on it for example to check for allergies for example.

I've seen a bunch of takes like this and I really disagree that these text generation AI algorithms are really any good at all at this "digital assistant" type role.

 

They lie constantly and cannot be programmed to do otherwise because there's no actual intelligence to be tuned here. The system gets trained on a shit load of human generated text and then plays "guess what the next word might be" in response to your queries. 

 

This is a great way to generate resume templates, code examples, or prepare short text summaries. But it's absolutely not intelligence and so giving it a role that demands intelligence is just setting yourself up for failure.

 

The demo video actually has a really good demo of why this ML tech is the wrong choice for this product; the solar eclipse question. The AI Pin just spits out random garbage and the user has absolutely no way to validate it. Same with the restaurant recommendations, or questions from text messages. How often is it going to recommend restaurants that don't exist or tell you completely wrong info about your conversations? Based on the demo video, probably enough that it won't be very useful.

 

And it's important to remember that although this company is a random startup, they're using ChatGPT the absolute best text generating ML /AI on the market. When you use it for stuff it's good at (document templates, example code, text summaries, etc) it's incredible. 

 

The problem isn't the ML tech they've chosen is bad per se. It's that the tech is bad *at this task* and has no hope of ever being good at it.

 

To date, nobody has ever made any AI that demonstrates any actual intelligence. Until somebody makes something that at least has the ability to synthesise information at the level of 2 year old, no product like this has any hope of being worthwhile.

[Mark Kaine]

11 minutes ago, maplepants said:

I've seen a bunch of takes like this and I really disagree that these text generation AI algorithms are really any good at all at this "digital assistant" type role.

 

They lie constantly and cannot be programmed to do otherwise because there's no actual intelligence to be tuned here. The system gets trained on a shit load of human generated text and then plays "guess what the next word might be" in response to your queries. 

 

This is a great way to generate resume templates, code examples, or prepare short text summaries. But it's absolutely not intelligence and so giving it a role that demands intelligence is just setting yourself up for failure.

 

The demo video actually has a really good demo of why this ML tech is the wrong choice for this product; the solar eclipse question. The AI Pin just spits out random garbage and the user has absolutely no way to validate it. Same with the restaurant recommendations, or questions from text messages. How often is it going to recommend restaurants that don't exist or tell you completely wrong info about your conversations? Based on the demo video, probably enough that it won't be very useful.

 

And it's important to remember that although this company is a random startup, they're using ChatGPT the absolute best text generating ML /AI on the market. When you use it for stuff it's good at (document templates, example code, text summaries, etc) it's incredible. 

 

The problem isn't the ML tech they've chosen is bad per se. It's that the tech is bad *at this task* and has no hope of ever being good at it.

 

To date, nobody has ever made any AI that demonstrates any actual intelligence. Until somebody makes something that at least has the ability to synthesise information at the level of 2 year old, no product like this has any hope of being worthwhile.

i agree... despite the name, i didn't have the impression its really about ai, more like a new, or rather better, way of communication. 

 

i really hope any sort of "ai" will be more a thing in the background and not how people mostly see this device...

 

with the answers and possible misconceptions present in this thread, i really think it's a mistake to call it ai pin... i hope this is more like a placeholder or code name than the actual name for the finished product. 

 

 

as said, if this thing is mostly about spewing bs ala chatGPT its destined to fail, as others have rightly mentioned  ~

[maplepants]

11 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

i agree... despite the name, i didn't have the impression its really about ai, more like a new, or rather better, way of communication. 

 

i really hope any sort of "ai" will be more a thing in the background and not how people mostly see this device...

Maybe. I feel like the demo video leaned pretty hard into the AI theme. They specifically mentioned AI when talking about basically every feature.

 

Without the AI it's just a voice controlled phone that uses a projector instead of a screen. Which makes it compete with products like the Apple Watch or Samsung Galaxy Watch with cellular. Either of those options would be leagues better for people who basically wanted to make phone calls on the go, but didn't want phone.

[Alex Atkin UK]

AI is never going to work for this, as LLM by their nature are trained over a long period of time on a data set - which means by the time its been trained its months or even years out of date. As many pointed out, you can see this clearly in the demo where it gets things wrong.

You also have to trust that all that data is accurate, before you even get into the issues around hallucination.  I'm sure were familiar with multitudes of situations where just looking at the "most common" opinion on something, which an LLM by its nature will do, can be completely wrong.  So putting so much trust in it telling you the right information is bad, you might as well get your facts from TikTok (which frightening some people do).

They are promoting this product as being able to do things based on CURRENT data, it can't possibly use AI for that due to above.  Its more like a basic Google search, which can also bring up results hours of out of date.  The number of times I've found a product listing on Google and thought "oh that's a good price", only to follow the link and find the price has gone up.  By its nature it can never be as simple as asking about a product, being given a price and buying it at that price without having to double-check it hasn't gone up, unless the service is by someone like Amazon who have access to the actual real-time prices.  Even then, there are often hidden costs, people gaming the system to make their listing appear cheaper by it being an import, etc.

So just for buying products alone its deeply flawed, which is why hardly anyone uses Alexa for this, which is actually the most optimised to do it.  Its a terrible idea to just buy the cheapest product listing without any human checking the details.  That's just one example alone of how this can't work.

[Needfuldoer]

"AI" is just the current occupant of the free space on big tech's Buzzword Bingo sheet.

[Mark Kaine]

I mean maybe everyone is right saying that this product is more or less nonsense...

 

50 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

"AI" is just the current occupant of the free space on big tech's Buzzword Bingo sheet.

i think its this though and they just slapped on AI because they think it'll sale... which might be also stupid idea, tbh.  i just hope they have an endgame here... lol

[Sharkyx1]

I don't see how this is better than my iPhone.

 

I like direct input. I don't like voice input 

[Mark Kaine]

On 11/16/2023 at 1:06 AM, Sharkyx1 said:

 

I like direct input. I don't like voice input 

ok, but both input methods are "direct"

 

personally i think we should long have eye tracking, voice, gestures replacing having to actually touch things, albeit touch screen is already a huge improvement over typewriters admittedly. 

but that's the point, things can get better.  

[Sharkyx1]

12 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

ok, but both input methods are "direct"

 

personally i think we should long have eye tracking, voice, gestures replacing having to actually touch things, albeit touch screen is already a huge improvement over typewriters admittedly. 

but that's the point, things can get better.  

I don't think touch is 100% better than keyboard typing. There's use cases where it's more convinient, but there's a reason professional typing is mostly on keyboards still.

 

I have no interest in voice control or eye tracking, I view both as a nuisance. Especially voice control. I don't want to hear what others are doing with their phones 

 

EDIT : my reference to direct input earlier is specifically about how when I type e there's no inference of what I'm trying to type, I can type e e e e e e e e, but it would probably be much harder to use a voice to text to get the same result.

[vettesfan]

I want this as a next gen product. It would need more robust of a laser projector and as a phone replacement. Between my PC, and my Chromebook convertible I have enough access to screens for consumption of data. This would allow me to make calls, send chats, and get immediate data such as weather and what not. If I could find a 'dumb' flip phone with hot spot capabilities I would switch to that right now. I am over having a smart phone, it just leads (for me) to doom scrolling, and a negative world view.  

[Mark Kaine]

4 hours ago, vettesfan said:

I want this as a next gen product. It would need more robust of a laser projector and as a phone replacement. Between my PC, and my Chromebook convertible I have enough access to screens for consumption of data. This would allow me to make calls, send chats, and get immediate data such as weather and what not. If I could find a 'dumb' flip phone with hot spot capabilities I would switch to that right now. I am over having a smart phone, it just leads (for me) to doom scrolling, and a negative world view.  

this is me basically... i remember my old Samsung (slider) at around the time the first iPhone came out... i just thought there's nothing this apple thing does that my phone doesn't... it even had "internet" aka "wap" lol... remember that ?

 

 

but, yes, this product is obviously intended to be more simple than a smartphone while having similar functionality... i still think the AI stuff should mostly be used to make usability better instead of constantly throwing chatGPT nonsense at you... lol. we will see, i guess!

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

An update, reviews are in, to predictable results. (predictable to anyone but the investors in the builders of this gadget)

 

 

Quote

Speaking of, it's impossible to see what's projected on your palm once you walk outside in daylight. The projector is just not bright enough to stay visible. This is a problem if you haven't entered the passcode to unlock the Ai Pin because it's so hard to see the numbers when you're outside.

On 11/12/2023 at 2:44 PM, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

Has the below product ever materialized? No.

Because? A PROJECTOR. IN DAYLIGHT. ON SKIN.

How are still investors falling on the "projector works in daylight" scam... There sure are lots of dumb investors that fail to hire competent advice for their tech investment out there...

[whispous]

So it's like my phone but less accurate, and I can't see images?

EDIT: or effectively navigate by having a map I can see? Voice-only navigation leaves a lot to be desired.

[Thaldor]

1 hour ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

How are still investors falling on the "projector works in daylight" scam... There sure are lots of dumb investors that fail to hire competent advice for their tech investment out there...

Same way they keep falling for roads made from solar panels, wireless charging over long distances, trains running in vacuum tubes, radioactive batteries, free energy, carbon nanotubes this and superconductor graphene that and did I miss something and is every techbro now offended?

 

Pretty much if any upcoming tech device from some startup requires more than 1 or 2 major breakthroughs in common technology (AiPin has camera, projection, AI processing and generally breaking in completely new product category), don't believe it before you see it, there's more than 80% chance for it being investment scam and they never had any way or even any want to produce that thing. There is the small chance it's just going to be a complete let down and just misleading marketing in hopes to get rich and run with the money and extremely vanishing chance it's actually real. There's a reason why these things usually go more public funding path and that is because usual investment paths smell the smoke a mile away and it's much easier to get peoples retirement funds than try to apply for business loan from a bank with faked videos.

[BoomerDutch]

Its cool and all but i want ai that deals humans like you all

 

build its own generated system and desktop to user desire.

 

Now thats "AI" to me.

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

An update, reviews are in, to predictable results. (predictable to anyone but the investors in the builders of this gadget)

 

 

How are still investors falling on the "projector works in daylight" scam... There sure are lots of dumb investors that fail to hire competent advice for their tech investment out there...

 

I think too many people have drank the Star Trek discovery koolaid.

 

Remember that "Smartphones" were inspired by science fiction. iPads were directly inspired by Star Trek's PADD's. But these were things that were directly, possible should the underlying technology miniaturize. (Namely batteries and Screens.)

 

But projectors and holograms, have never materialized in a useful way, because in order for a "hologram" to exist, it needs a physical surface for the light to scatter off. If you've ever seen a laser light show (which have been around for decades) they only work because of smoke/fog machines give it that depth.

 

A flat surface that doesn't the resolution or the latency to operate intuitively, just sets us back 50 years.  Maybe this technology will get to a usable level, but right now it's reminding me of how unintuitive and slow 8-bit Z80/6502 home computers were.

 

This "AI" badge is the same kind of AI we see in Star Trek Next generation and later, where it's basically a terminal to the ship's computer. Discovery's turn it into an entire "Do everything, tricorder, transporter, etc" and pops out a holographic display and user interface.

 

And what does this AI pin do exactly? Give you wrong information, have an unusable interface, WHY would you pay money for that. People pay money for service for their smartphone, but that has a lot to do with the underlying need of the infrastructure to make it work. What does this pin need? Clearly it doesn't work independently and is basically just a smartwatch in a different form.

 

[Erioch]

 

[Poinkachu]

 

Gotta say, it's probably good that that thing can't book uber and such.

 

As for taking focus off of phone.... now the focus is on .... your palm ?

I mean, considering text gonna be hard to read and all.