New modems

[Brian Williams42]

why is is he never discusses modems he talks about routers so why not modems. The cheap one over the expensive ones and which ones work better

[Tan3l6]

What kind of modems?

[Needfuldoer]

18 minutes ago, Brian Williams42 said:

why is is he never discusses modems he talks about routers so why not modems. The cheap one over the expensive ones and which ones work better

Support is completely up to individual ISPs, and standards aren't perfectly consistent in different regions of the world.

[FlappyBoobs]

Modems don't really exist anymore, they are all routers. A modem is a MODulator DEModulater, and converts digital to analog and back again for sending data over the old analog phone lines. ADSL is using the excess capacity using a digital signal over those same copper lines, so unless you use dial up internet you don't use a modem.

[Lingwendil]

7 hours ago, FlappyBoobs said:

Modems don't really exist anymore, they are all routers. A modem is a MODulator DEModulater, and converts digital to analog and back again for sending data over the old analog phone lines. ADSL is using the excess capacity using a digital signal over those same copper lines, so unless you use dial up internet you don't use a modem.

 

Uh, no.

 

Former cable internet/tv/phone installer, and current systems installation guy here.

 

Anything a cable company provides still uses a modem. the usual recommendation is to use a separate modem and router for reliability, flexibility, and future expansion.

 

DOCSIS is one of the largest protocols and is used by a huge amount of Cable providers for internet- Providers such as Time Warner, Cox, Comcast, etc. They all use a DOCSIS cable modem (or often modem/router combo if you lease the equipment from them). In a lot of markets ADSL (AT&T, for example)fiber is unreliable trash or still unavailable at modern accepted speeds, so you see very hot competition from cable providers.

 

With Comcast, I use a standalone Arris SB6183 cable modem into a separate wireless router and switch, that way I own my equipment and do not have a monthly lease/service fee, or need to be locked in to a providers wireless router arrangement and management.

[FlappyBoobs]

7 minutes ago, Lingwendil said:

 

Uh, no.

 

Former cable internet/tv/phone installer, and current systems installation guy here.

 

Anything a cable company provides still uses a modem. the usual recommendation is to use a separate modem and router for reliability, flexibility, and future expansion.

 

DOCSIS is one of the largest protocols and is used by a huge amount of Cable providers for internet- Providers such as Time Warner, Cox, Comcast, etc. They all use a DOCSIS cable modem (or often modem/router combo if you lease the equipment from them). In a lot of markets ADSL (AT&T, for example)fiber is unreliable trash or still unavailable at modern accepted speeds, so you see very hot competition from cable providers.

 

With Comcast, I use a standalone Arris SB6183 cable modem into a separate router and switch, that way I own my equipment and do not have a monthly lease/service fee, or need to be locked in to a providers wireless router arrangement and management.

So you are still sending analog signals? 

[Lingwendil]

5 minutes ago, FlappyBoobs said:

So you are still sending analog signals? 

No.

 

DOCSIS is digital.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

[FlappyBoobs]

3 minutes ago, Lingwendil said:

No.

 

DOCSIS is digital.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

Then it's not using a modem. The definition of which is a device that converts digital data into a format that can be sent over an analog transmission medium.

 

You might have been trained to call it a modem, but a "cable modem" is a marketing term. It's not actually a modem, but closer to a network bridge or router.

[Lingwendil]

It is still considered a modem, as it modulates and demodulates RF signal transmitted over fiber or coax. Functionally yes, it fulfills the role of a network bridge.

[Brian Williams42]

yes Cable uses a modem i just wonder why Linus never talks about modems and yes you use them for Cable

[Lingwendil]

Probably because they're such a benign item that as long as they reach the right specs they sort of don't matter? Routers are far more nuanced and useful discussion.

[Uttamattamakin]

On 10/5/2023 at 6:57 AM, Brian Williams42 said:

why is is he never discusses modems he talks about routers so why not modems. The cheap one over the expensive ones and which ones work better

Because modems in the true strict sense do not exist as they did in the time of dialup internet.   

Now it matters far more which cable or phone company you get connected to.  

Back in the day I could use my blazing fast 2400 bps modem to dial into one ISP or the other at will.   Now the phone company is the ISP.  The fiber optic ONT in my basement could be loosely called a "modem" if one wanted but ATT doesn't do that.  Comcast called the device a router or "customer premises equipment".    These things are called modems by tradition now.  

Not like when you had to choose between USRobotics K56flex and the promise that a firmware update could get it to the V.90 standard when it comes out VS waiting for V.90 or V.92 ... or finding out what modems your preferred ISP uses at your local dial up connection point to be sure you can get the best connection.  Or having to be sure you had the best possible UART  Texas instruments 16650 for your hardware based modem to connect by serial ... or if you got stuck with a Win Modem.  

In short the best modem for you, now, is the one your ISP gives you... whatever they decide to call it. 

[Donut417]

6 hours ago, Brian Williams42 said:

yes Cable uses a modem i just wonder why Linus never talks about modems and yes you use them for Cable

Because the cable company generally uses gateways (modem/router). Also not all ISP's allow customer owned modems. The only reason it's allowed in the US is because the FCC had the balls the force cable companies to allow it. Cable modems are easy. Use Docsis 3.1 with Gigabit ports for speeds lower than Gigabit, use Docsis 3.1 modem with 2.5 Gbps Ethernet for anything Gigabit and above. This is because the modem with Gigabit will top out about 940 Mbps. But the only difference is what the Ethernet is rated for, they both have the same downstream and upstream capabilities. 

 

DSL is pretty much dead at this point and you dont see standalone DSL modems that much. 

 

Fiber uses a media converter and you have to use what the ISP gives you. 

[Mark Kaine]

Tbf, because most modems are also routers?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Mark Kaine]

12 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

In short the best modem for you, now, is the one your ISP gives you...

negative, usually they give you cheap trash... 

[Needfuldoer]

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

negative, usually they give you cheap trash... 

Their router features leave something to be desired, but they're perfectly adequate as modems.

[Mark Kaine]

3 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

Their router features leave something to be desired, but they're perfectly adequate as modems.

oh yeah, maybe, although i feel my "fritzbox" has a huge amount of options..... i don't typically use them though,  usually i just have one device connected at a time, i also never use wifi (that it has of course) 

 

^tried it though,  its not bad, but the signal isnt strong enough to reach my room, which is 3 stories up, only reaches the stairs in front of the room 

[Donut417]

15 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

n short the best modem for you, now, is the one your ISP gives you.

Hard disagree. The gateways that most ISPs use are locked down tighter than a snare drum and lack features at least on the router side. Also for even ISP's like Charter who do supply plain Jane cable modems, they were know to provides the SB6190 (or other Puma 6 Chipped modems) which was known to have issues. Let's not forget the fact many provides charge a rental fee for the equipment. My ISP charges like $15 a month without unlimited data and $25 a month with unlimited data. Though they are also dicks and charge $30 for unlimited data if you use you own modem, but if you can stay with in 1.2 TB or dont mind paying $10 for each block of 50 Gigs then its not an issue. 

[Lurick]

4 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Tbf, because most modems are also routers?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

It depends, in my experience ISPs are trending towards giving you the modem but then trying to get you to rent their router and keeping them separate.

[Donut417]

10 minutes ago, Lurick said:

It depends, in my experience ISPs are trending towards giving you the modem but then trying to get you to rent their router and keeping them separate.

90% of the US ISP's give you a gateway that has to be rented. Charter major ISP I know will give you a standard modem and then charge you for WiFi if you want to use what they will provide.

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, Lurick said:

It depends, in my experience ISPs are trending towards giving you the modem but then trying to get you to rent their router and keeping them separate.

here you usually get an aio router/modem and like most seem to be fritzbox which are pretty ok(but sometimes you get a cheap model i guess), but yeah, it depends on isp etc.

 

 

also they made a law that you can always choose your own equipment,  previously isps would just block that and force you to use their own crap ....

[Donut417]

Another thing to add. In order to test a modem, LMG would need the proper connection to do so. So for example cable modems, they would need service thru a cable provider. Im not sure if Canadian providers allow customer owned equipment. Same applies to xDSL as well. With Fiber, most companies require you use their equipment. So in all it would be an extra expense that probably isnt worth the trouble. I think a provider might question them for changing out equipment often. Routers on the other hand are universal, as they can be connected to any modem or gateway in bridge / ip pass thru mode.

 

What would be nice if the Lab team tested LAN to WAN and WAN to LAN throughput on many routers. Because most manufactures dont give that info and its useful to know when you have Gigabit + connections. Because many routers cant do NAT at those speeds.