Nintendo patents "magnetorheological fluid" augmented joystick

[Scorcher646]

Summary

Nintendo have filed and received a patent for what appears to be a standard potentiometer based joystick with an added variable resistance mechanism based on a magnetic field and a "magnetorheological fluid." 

Quotes

Quote

... a resistance section using a magnetorheological fluid whose viscosity changes in accordance with an intensity of a magnetic field and which serves as a resistance with the stick is displaced from/to the initial position, and a magnetic field generation section which provides the magnetic field to the magnetorheological fluid; and a circuit capable of controlling the magnetic field generation section.

 

My thoughts

From my reading this seems to be intended to allow for a much stronger return spring while preventing rapid oscillation after a user releases the stick. It is unclear if Nintendo intends this to mitigate stick drift or if its just there for a stronger spring or some sort of forced feedback system.
 

This might also not be a good thing for the longevity of the joystick as magnetorheological fluids are vulnerable to degradation through use.
per Wikipedia:

Quote

Although smart fluids are rightly seen as having many potential applications, they are limited in commercial feasibility for the following reasons:

• High density, due to presence of iron, makes them heavy. However, operating volumes are small, so while this is a problem, it is not insurmountable.
• High-quality fluids are expensive.
• Fluids are subject to thickening after prolonged use and need replacing.
• Settling of Ferro-particles can be a problem for some applications.
• Cannot operate at extremely High/Low temperatures

Commercial applications do exist, as mentioned, but will continue to be few until these problems (particularly cost) are overcome.

 

Sources

 https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/20230280848 - US Patent and trademark office
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetorheological_fluid#Limitations

Edited September 10, 2023 by Scorcher646
Added more thoughts and a source for those

[Dabombinable]

Or they could just suck it up and use hall effect joysticks.

[Scorcher646]

1 hour ago, Dabombinable said:

Or they could just suck it up and use hall effect joysticks.

but then they wouldn't be able to patent it

[SorryBella]

3 hours ago, Scorcher646 said:

variable resistance mechanism based on a magnetic field

So something like this?

[Scorcher646]

52 minutes ago, SorryBella said:

So something like this?

yes but also no, The system Nintendo has patented works more like a limited slip differential. Its not dust, but microparticles suspended in a surfactant. Kinda like ferrofluid but the particles are MUCH smaller. There is also no way for the system to put a force on the stick with these two extra parts, they only resist motion or so it seems.

[mMontana]

It will cost even more when the potentiometer will wear.

No hall effect can be used here: otherwise, the part "magnetorheological" cannot be installed (or screw the hall effect sensors)

[StDragon]

 So variable resistive feedback? This could fun if the resolution is high enough and not just a stupid gimmick.

 

I can see the slogan now... "When you push it to the limit, it pushes back!" 

[Scorcher646]

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

 So variable resistive feedback? This could fun if the resolution is high enough and not just a stupid gimmick.

 

I can see the slogan now... "When you push it to the limit, it pushes back!" 

well in the patent its supposed to resist LESS when moving away from center and more when moving back to center so it doesn't really push back at all

[jasonvp]

On 9/10/2023 at 4:40 PM, Scorcher646 said:

.This might also not be a good thing for the longevity of the joystick as magnetorheological fluids are vulnerable to degradation through use.

per Wikipedia:

 

The thing with Wikipedia is: anyone can submit articles to it.  Here's an interesting tidbit:  MR fluids have been used in vehicle shock absorbers in GM high performance vehicles since the late 90s (experimental) and early 2000s (production).  That's a pretty stout "commercial application" if ever there was one.  Nothing you're going to do with your thumbs to a joystick over the course of its short life is going to match the stress put on shock absorbers in a Corvette or high performance Cadillac (or any of the other sports cars that have adopted the tech from GM).

 

 

[StDragon]

4 hours ago, jasonvp said:

Nothing you're going to do with your thumbs to a joystick over the course of its short life is going to match the stress put on shock absorbers in a Corvette or high performance Cadillac (or any of the other sports cars that have adopted the tech from GM).

Yup, it's solid state resistivity. About the only thing that will wear out is friction points such as the o-rings, but that's expected given the environment they're in.

[Mark Kaine]

So Nintendo is officially out of ideas?  i didn't think I'd see this day, but here we are lol

[starsmine]

yea it seems weird. Its cool that it has variable resistive feedback and all. But it feels like making an argument to avoid using hall effect joysticks. 

I know they cant actually admit they were wrong to not use hall effect, but you dont have to admit that and just use them.  Like this comes off as a way to save face.

[Mark Kaine]

6 hours ago, starsmine said:

yea it seems weird. Its cool that it has variable resistive feedback and all. But it feels like making an argument to avoid using hall effect joysticks. 

I know they cant actually admit they were wrong to not use hall effect, but you dont have to admit that and just use them.  Like this comes off as a way to save face.

to me this is just "blast processing" again.  but i get whst you mean they just don't want to use already established tech, which to me again seems just like a marketing gimmick and no real innovation - which all these manufacturers are lacking,  Nintendo is just the last one to "admit" it (without admitting anything lol)