Madison reveals experiences working at LMG

[Drazil100]

To lighten the mood a tiny bit... What percentage of these past few days do people think Linus spent in "floor time"?

[starsmine]

3 minutes ago, fXjZL5 said:

If she was actually sexually harassed, the perpetrator belongs in prison for a long time. 

No. no they dont. Stop viewing the world in black and white like that. The action needs to be corrected and fairly punished yes, but not prison. The purpose is to have people grow into better people, not be vindictive. 

[deblimp]

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[I Just Want Ram Drives]

3 minutes ago, fXjZL5 said:

1. Some evidence may exist, but we do not currently have access to it, meaning we cannot form a justified belief about it. 

 

2. I never made a claim against her. 

 

3. I do get to make that claim because I do not need evidence to assert the null hypothesis. This is basic logic. Are you completely uneducated? 

 

4. I'm wrong to assert we have no evidence? Okay then. In that case, you have the easiest job in the world then. Show the evidence. Come on. Make me look stupid in front of this whole forum. Bring it. 

We actually do have some evidence, in the vein of the LMG meeting about workplace harassment that followed Madison quitting. Specifically, Linus outlined that going to the problematic person was the first step he listed in trying to resolve stuff, and if that is poorly communicated or if a worker feels like their complaints are ignored(as Madison thoroughly covered being the case for her), that's a real shit first step. And she herself expressed that this was a major step she was told to undertake.

But more than take, the meeting ending with someone making a sexual joke in a meeting about workplace fucking harassment means AT LEAST one person felt like a meeting about WORKPLACE FUCKING HARASSMENT was a safe fucking space to make sexual jokes in. Which is a pretty sharp condemnation of the workplace culture, in that case.

And yes, those are evidence. They're actually very solid evidence.

[fXjZL5]

2 minutes ago, starsmine said:

No. no they dont. Stop viewing the world in black and white like that. The action needs to be corrected and fairly punished yes, but not prison. The purpose is to have people grow into better people, not be vindictive. 

I absolutely disagree that the purpose is to have people "grow". A sexual harasser can't become a better person, and doesn't deserve the chance. Any sexual harasser or abuser, if proven to be so, deserves the electric chair, frankly. Sex criminals do not deserve human rights, and this is absolutely vindictiveness. 

[I Just Want Ram Drives]

3 minutes ago, starsmine said:

No. no they dont. Stop viewing the world in black and white like that. The action needs to be corrected and fairly punished yes, but not prison. The purpose is to have people grow into better people, not be vindictive. 

And that's what prison should be for. Isolation from society to protect others, and growth, healing, and learning. The fact that it isn't, doesn't change what it should be, nor does it change where someone that sexually abuses women should be placed.

[SomeRandomDude111]

9 minutes ago, Drazil100 said:

Can we please both agree that neither of you have evidence? NONE OF US have evidence. It is pointless trying to blame LMG for harassment or Madison for faking it UNTIL we have evidence.

Holy shit if only all of us had your common sense. 
 

6 minutes ago, Drazil100 said:

 

To lighten the mood a tiny bit... What percentage of these past few days do people think Linus spent in "floor time"?

 

Probably at least 40% of today and yesterday’s waking hours

[fXjZL5]

Just now, I Just Want Ram Drives said:

We actually do have some evidence, in the vein of the LMG meeting about workplace harassment that followed Madison quitting. Specifically, Linus outlined that going to the problematic person was the first step he listed in trying to resolve stuff, and if that is poorly communicated or if a worker feels like their complaints are ignored(as Madison thoroughly covered being the case for her), that's a real shit first step. And she herself expressed that this was a major step she was told to undertake.

But more than take, the meeting ending with someone making a sexual joke in a meeting about workplace fucking harassment means AT LEAST one person felt like a meeting about WORKPLACE FUCKING HARASSMENT was a safe fucking space to make sexual jokes in. Which is a pretty sharp condemnation of the workplace culture, in that case.

And yes, those are evidence. They're actually very solid evidence.

That is certainly evidence, but not evidence of what you seem to think it's evidence of, and it's not very solid at all. 

 

1. Linus suggested talking it out with the offending party but encouraged contacting higher-ups if this is not feasible. This is par for the course in most companies. 

 

2. James made a crass and tasteless joke, but two things must be taken into account: a. Making a shitty joke does not mean one supports sexual harassment, and many people make shitty jokes that are not sexual harassers; and b. The meeting was about an HR violation. We have no reason to believe they had any indication it was sexual in nature. Still bad, obviously, but it's not the slam dunk you want it to be. 

[fXjZL5]

4 minutes ago, Master Link said:

We officially have reached an agreement.

 

We can not, will not accept hearsay.  Right now it's just that.  There's NO reason to pass judgements to either side until then.  Simply put, listen to both sides.  No nastiness, no nothing.  Let the outside investigation conclude, and we will need to accept the results, however they may be.

Then why did you attack me? This has been my position the entire time. How did we "reach" an agreement if neither I nor you ever changed our minds? 

[starsmine]

1 minute ago, fXjZL5 said:

I absolutely disagree that the purpose is to have people "grow". A sexual harasser can't become a better person, and doesn't deserve the chance. Any sexual harasser or abuser, if proven to be so, deserves the electric chair, frankly. Sex criminals do not deserve human rights, and this is absolutely vindictiveness. 

  Calm down and view people as people. I feel like I have had to say this countless times in this thread.

TALK to actual sexual harassment victims in your life. If you don't know any, you do and you do not have their trust for reasons like the above. Do not be the walking red flag they avoid. Dont be the person unable to read the room. 

People are not bad people who can only do bad things or good people who can only do good things, they are grey. People with the best of intentions will fail, and people will slack with their intentions when lazy. Even purely self-centered people can and do some good. 

[fXjZL5]

Just now, Master Link said:

I mean, I agree to that one too, it depends on what kind of sex crime it is.

 

Truthfully it's more complex than this, the punishment must still fit the crime.  But if we are talking about something like rape?  Oh absolutely, cut them off even.  Just grabbing, no, but there is an appropriate punishment for that as well.

 

Again, we need to let the investigation conclude, we are going to do nothing but speculate on something we simply only know based on what it is we are seeing published, but we are not seeing the true innards of LMG as a whole unfortunately.  (Would be nice but we all know that's not our place, though Madison did bring it up on Twitter making it our place unfortunately which is why were are here......unfortunately)

The only way I can see it justified to not punish someone for that to the fullest extent of the law is if it was a socially awkward person trying to flirt and couldn't read the other person's social cues, and no physical contact or threat of it was present. Otherwise, off to the gulag with ye. 

[I Just Want Ram Drives]

1 minute ago, fXjZL5 said:

That is certainly evidence, but not evidence of what you seem to think it's evidence of, and it's not very solid at all. 

 

1. Linus suggested talking it out with the offending party but encouraged contacting higher-ups if this is not feasible. This is par for the course in most companies. 

 

2. James made a crass and tasteless joke, but two things must be taken into account: a. Making a shitty joke does not mean one supports sexual harassment, and many people make shitty jokes that are not sexual harassers; and b. The meeting was about an HR violation. We have no reason to believe they had any indication it was sexual in nature. Still bad, obviously, but it's not the slam dunk you want it to be. 

Linus said a thing with matches Madison's stated experiences on the surface level and is thus evidence of her claims, but Madison's stated experiences also denote that actually following the full process resulted in no fixes or changes which is where the problem lies. So, we know Madison isn't outright lying about the process.

Feeling safe in making a crude sexual joke in the middle of a meeting about workplace harassment shouldn't get laughs. Ever. That's the workplace culture. That joke was an HR violation itself and was not treated as such. That is, abjectly, a sign of how the workplace was running at that time.

[fXjZL5]

Just now, starsmine said:

People are not bad people who can only do bad things or good people who can only do good things, they are grey. 

Never said that wasn't the case. Doesn't change the fact that some actions make you forfeit your right to life. Rape, murder, pedophilia, genocide, etc. Would you advocate trying to make the German dude a "better person" too? Get your head out of the clouds. You live in the real world, not Narnia. Not everyone can be reformed and not everyone deserves to be. 

[castlev]

9 minutes ago, fXjZL5 said:

I absolutely disagree that the purpose is to have people "grow". A sexual harasser can't become a better person, and doesn't deserve the chance. Any sexual harasser or abuser, if proven to be so, deserves the electric chair, frankly. Sex criminals do not deserve human rights, and this is absolutely vindictiveness. 

Someone earlier in the thread described one act of sexual harassment as "undressing you with their eyes." Does someone deserve to go to jail for looking at someone for too long? That is why we have penal codes that draw a distinction between harassment and assault, to prevent something like that from happening. The severity of the act warrants the punishment, which is why in the US we have sentencing guidelines, but also judges discretion.

[Drazil100]

2 minutes ago, I Just Want Ram Drives said:

We actually do have some evidence, in the vein of the LMG meeting about workplace harassment that followed Madison quitting. Specifically, Linus outlined that going to the problematic person was the first step he listed in trying to resolve stuff, and if that is poorly communicated or if a worker feels like their complaints are ignored(as Madison thoroughly covered being the case for her), that's a real shit first step. And she herself expressed that this was a major step she was told to undertake.

But more than take, the meeting ending with someone making a sexual joke in a meeting about workplace fucking harassment means AT LEAST one person felt like a meeting about WORKPLACE FUCKING HARASSMENT was a safe fucking space to make sexual jokes in. Which is a pretty sharp condemnation of the workplace culture, in that case.

And yes, those are evidence. They're actually very solid evidence.

Agreed. This is very solid evidence. That said to be perfectly clear this is evidence of 2 things. First, Linus was definitely aware of something. Whether he was aware of the full scope remains to be seen but he can't claim ignorance that there was a situation. Second, James making a sexual joke shows how seriously he at least took the meeting. Linus also didn't really call him out on it.

All of that said. We do NOT know how much of this Linus was actually aware of. It is very likely that whoever was involved hid certain key details, and given that Madison injured herself as an excuse to leave, Linus was probably not aware that injury was self inflicted until this twitter thread.

We also do not know if ALL of what Madison claimed happened is true. She could have actually been harassed but exaggerated the story so it would be taken seriously. Given what we know I am more inclined to believe Madison at the moment but we shouldn't rule out that both sides are lying to some degree.

We need more evidence than we currently have.

[fXjZL5]

2 minutes ago, Master Link said:

I honestly don't know but I do apologize in that case.  I'll own it.

No worries, and I appreciate that. Good day, friend. 

[fXjZL5]

1 minute ago, I Just Want Ram Drives said:

Feeling safe in making a crude sexual joke in the middle of a meeting about workplace harassment shouldn't get laughs. Ever.

I agree. Doesn't mean he would let sexual harassment slide. 

[RWxAshley]

90 pages now of a bunch of boys debating if woman in the tech industry really are facing issues of men being creepy toward their female co-workers. Its sad that these allegations aren't even far fetched for the Industry, and yet I keep seeing a bunch of people quick to dismiss it. Its absurd the conspiracy level bullshit I'm seeing from those doubting Madison while having nothing except their para social feelings for LMG for why they don't want to believe her. Nothing she said is a stretch. Its really, sadly, not.

[shrimpboyho3]

22 minutes ago, _Hexenhammer_ said:

 

he cant, he just follows the "playbook"

Yep it's crazy. And honestly disrespectful to Madison and any other person who has experienced any sort of assault, alleged or not.

[castlev]

1 minute ago, RWxAshley said:

90 pages now of a bunch of boys debating if woman in the tech industry really are facing issues of men being creepy toward their female co-workers. Its sad that these allegations aren't even far fetched for the Industry, and yet I keep seeing a bunch of people quick to dismiss it. Its absurd the conspiracy level bullshit I'm seeing from those doubting Madison while having nothing except their para social feelings for LMG for why they don't want to believe her. Nothing she said is a stretch. Its really, sadly, not.

No, it's not a stretch at all, but until we have a completed investigation, we aren't going to blindly just cancel Linus.

[starsmine]

8 minutes ago, fXjZL5 said:

Never said that wasn't the case. Doesn't change the fact that some actions make you forfeit your right to life. Rape, murder, pedophilia, genocide, etc. Would you advocate trying to make the German dude a "better person" too? Get your head out of the clouds. You live in the real world, not Narnia. Not everyone can be reformed and not everyone deserves to be. 

Oh I think I understand what is happening. You don't know what sexual harassment or assault is and lept to the most extreme kind. 

Sexual harassment is literally repeated unwanted sexual interactions. It's not non-consensually popping out of a back ally and shoving a hand down their pants. 

 

3 minutes ago, castlev said:

No, it's not a stretch at all, but until we have a completed investigation, we aren't going to blindly just cancel Linus.

People believing Madison are not asking for or wanting Linus or LMG to be canceled. Just to address it, and do better.

[Fingernoodle Donut]

4 minutes ago, I Just Want Ram Drives said:

Feeling safe in making a crude sexual joke in the middle of a meeting about workplace harassment shouldn't get laughs. Ever. That's the workplace culture. That joke was an HR violation itself and was not treated as such. That is, abjectly, a sign of how the workplace was running at that time.

 

I can't imagine making a crude joke in a meeting and not facing repercussions, regardless of meeting topic.

[RWxAshley]

6 minutes ago, castlev said:

No, it's not a stretch at all, but until we have a completed investigation, we aren't going to blindly just cancel Linus.

Who said anything about cancelling Linus? The theme of the week has been that LMG needs to fix its shit, and stop ignoring internal issues with its workplace culture that has led to all of these issues going unresolved for a very long time. Most of Maddison's post is about how she couldn't get any of these issues resolved, or taken seriously by those above her in the company.

Everyone wants to see LMG be the company it claims to be on camera. Not just pretend while shoving issues under the carpet.

[fXjZL5]

3 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Oh I think I understand what is happening. You don't know what sexual harassment or assault is and lept to the most extreme kind. 

As I made it very clear to you previously, I understand the definition of harassment can vary. But assault should always be punished to the fullest extent of the law, assuming assault implies unwanted physical contact. I have less sympathy for sexual assaulters than I do the worms that come out into the sidewalk in the rain. 

[shrimpboyho3]

6 minutes ago, Master Link said:

It's not a stretch unfortunately.  Which is why we are here.  A lot of us are truthfully waiting for the report.  It's only some who want it now like a JG Wentworth commercial.

C'mon , you still have yet to explain sexism...