Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

6 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

I mean... I work as a mainframe sysprog/sysadmin (double-role), where the systems I handle process daily more money than LMG made in its lifespan, so there might be much higher standards.... but this is just insane to me? like how does this happen twice? you don't use shared mailboxes, like idk "outsidecontact@lmg.com" or stuff like that? where multiple people monitor that mailbox? I mean it isn't that hard, we have it for every team, so even if everyone but one person is out of office, that thing won't be overlooked 

it can happen with one email that someone accidentally moves it into some folder... but even that should trigger some internal process to make sure it won't happen again, like automated notification in teams group when some mailbox receives mail, really not hard to fix

 

It's just basics, LMG isn't company of 3 people where you have a few simple mailboxes and hand out PW to everyone... or where people hand out their own mailboxes (I hope) 

 

I completely understand issues with logistics, where you handle physical things, but this basic communication? hell nah 

 

 

You'd be surprised, my main employer at the moment is a multi-billion dollar international evil omnicorp with about a hundred thousand employees globally. They have plenty of good systems in place for production management, but for the R&D department it's a bit of a mess because we don't fit into the standard quality management system. Folks are literally doing logistics and project planning in Excel spreadsheets for a product that's mere months away from going into production. As to mail lists and groups, try and tell that to our glorious IT staff that manages to delete half the mail groups at least once a month, folks stopped using them because they're unreliable. The upside of this is that we get to blame IT for everything that goes wrong in terms of planning and communication, because quite often they are in fact one of the parties to blame.

  

4 minutes ago, A_Mediocre_Kangaroo_Farmer said:

I traded in an expensive unit for a newer model with a local branch of a multi billion dollar company. I shipped it to them in a custom pelican case and they had agreed to return the case with the new unit inside.

 

The unit was already sold to a different business in a different country before they received it. My case got a new label and off it went. I received the new unit in a standard case (these units are always shipped in pelicans) and when I contacted them about it they had no idea this had happened or why. They just told me they'd reimburse me and there was no way to retrieve the case.

 

It doesn't matter how simple something can be to get right, shit happens. It's what you do when it does that is most important.

That sounds like something we'd do as well to be honest. And the funny bit here is that it's then often easier to just ship an entirely brand new unit that's rushed through production than to try and retrieve whatever was shipped to the wrong location. But what I find worse is that the first couple of years of your career you scream in terror when you see things like this happen, and after a while you just shrug and start laughing about it. 

[dedhed333]

12 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

If GN believes LMG "fixes" past videos with blatant errors in a very intransparent way, then talking to Linus before releasing the video could have let LMG to "destroy the evidence" and make GN/Steve look like a fool.

The vast majority of inaccuracy had already been edited and the video already had evidence of their claims. All deleting evidence would have done is made LTT look worse or show that in response to the video they had taken the level of corrections that the GN was asking of them if the deleted videos then got re-uploaded with the corrections.

[post_screen]

2 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

To allow a "mistake" like that to happen though is completely unacceptable.  There's no way at the former companies I worked at that a mistake like that would be allowed to happen; or whoever let it happen would be promptly fired.

 

Also, as a note, just because Billet is sending an invoice and "all is good" so to speak...doesn't mean that things are actually all good.  I've witnessed something that happened at a company I worked for, where we were clearly in the wrong and everyone knew it...but we essentially used a pitiful excuse to get out of the contract (when the owner decided to have cold feet on the project).  The other company "apologized" for their behavior that lead to the contract being terminated, and walked sent over apology stuff as well.  The only reason they did that was because they knew the owner could essentially end their company if they didn't apologize.  No one at our work felt right about it, but a job was a job.

I’m sure that it’s not all flowers and unicorns at Billet. I’d be loosing my crap if someone mistakenly posted a wrong review of something I had worked hard on and proceeded to auction off my product without my knowledge. I would love to hear from Billet. I also see this as good promotion for them, as there are currently hundreds of thousands of people talking about them. Having their reputation cleared, they could utilize this as an opportunity

[Drazil100]

1 hour ago, Skiiwee29 said:

Again not disagreeing that the look is bad, it is imo. But by the law, it's not a conflict of interest since the money is from a different pool/account not tied to the business beyond Linus being the owner of the company. That's all I'm saying. 

While I do think Linus is capable of not letting his investment bias him, it has been stated multiple times on wan show that just cause something is legal doesn't make it right. For instance it could be legal to not fulfill your promise on a kickstarter, not give people their money back, and then ask for more money on something else, but that doesn't make it right.

Just cause it legally doesn't fall under "conflict of interest" doesn't mean it can't bias him.

I personally am OK with the investment due to my own personal bias towards what framework is doing and I want Linus to keep his investment in them. I just want to make it clear that people SHOULDN'T trust what LMG says on laptops without checking multiple sources (which you should be doing anyway even if there wasn't an investment)

[NapolianOlo]

3 minutes ago, crism said:

first of all, I find all of this amusing and agree with GN.

Second of all, please use less clickbait-y thumbnails & video titles.

 

I refuse to watch any video where the thumbnail has a big stupid red arrow pointing at something

 

for the love of god stop it with the red arrows/circles in the thumbnails

 

WHY is there a red arrow pointing at something that is CLEARLY VISIBLE in the thumbnail?

please stop.

I always think Mr. Beast videos are popping back into my feed. These thumbnails are obnoxious.

[IndustrialBananaBread]

1 minute ago, FadedSpark said:

You probably didn't contribute anything constructive.

 

To this forums credit, I've found that actual reasonable discourse has been engaged fairly well from all sides.

Honestly agreed, thought this forum would be a lot more shit slinging due to the nature of the video but it's been pretty calm and level headed.

[borus87]

1 hour ago, LinusTech said:

Getting all the details before publication is *NOT* the opposite of journalistic integrity.

This isn't about being on a side... There's no war. You don't need to fight. You need to slow down and think.... 

And what details would you like to add/clarify? Are you making more and more mistakes? YES! Are you more and more entertainment and less tech focused? YES! You have issues with getting it all under control? YES! You know how I know it (besides that I watched every single video since back in the NCIX days)? Because you even admitted it in the first post. 

 

Now I assume you would like to "clarify" the Billet f*up. And if you wanted to do it for GN video maybe it's a good thing you didn't. Not all ppl will see this post - everyone would hear it in the video where you basically state: "We paid them as much as they wanted so they're good and I'm good". Meanwhile while you shrugged it off with cash, they lost their only prototype that they could have send to others for ACTUAL reviews, good press maybe, and they now have to make a new one. Meanwhile their prototype is in the wild possibly being reverse engineered by someone. And as a cherry on top and salt in the wound when asked by a forum member what you will do to prevent that in the future you respond literally "Nothing". Yeah.... "You're good".

[dragonuck76]

55 minutes ago, daydreamfaze said:

Tons of correct information outlining why LMG has been going downhill for a while now. They point out everything wrong with why you think you like Lienus. There was no "attacks" they were well composed criticisms of outright Bad behavior exhibited by LMG for a good long while now.  "they are aware of issues and will fix" Does not include things like removing the comment form Billet Labs on the video in question, that pointed out the fact that lienus did the test incredibly wrong by using a 4090 for the review, when told explicitly not to do so. Bad mouthed the company and the product, even though he used it wrong. Proceeded to pin a bogus comment about the test, AGAIN using a 4090...... THEN SOLD THE PROTOTYPE WITHOUT PERMISSION. 

These are not attacks, these are Facts... This is Why you should watch the video before speaking on what you clearly do not understand. Or just dont speak on it.  

See you comment hard on why I should watch a video I find of no interest, its just an attack on another youtuber... I do not just watch LTT for reviews etc, I watch a great variety if I am looking for something to buy.... so 1 2 3 4 what ever number you say they made a mistake fine, but I bet they also then, as I have read by many on here have stated they have, appolaigsed and made up for, and in fact even Linus and Luke state they have made mistakes and turned around and they will do so again, as they like you are only human.  Mistakes will happen and from those you learn and move on.  What I have read are just personel attacks, nothing of any value to me as a consumer looking at items I might be interested in buying, and again like I said LTT are not my only source for collecting info, I use a range, including just giving google a good serach... so again other than the attacks, what reason was there for the video, and for you to say I should watch the video..what other than the cooler, what else is there of value to watch it for

[IndustrialBananaBread]

Just now, post_screen said:

I’m sure that it’s not all flowers and unicorns at Billet. I’d be loosing my crap if someone mistakenly posted a wrong review of something I had worked hard on and proceeded to auction off my product without my knowledge. I would love to hear from Billet. I also see this as good promotion for them, as there are currently hundreds of thousands of people talking about them. Having their reputation cleared, they could utilize this as an opportunity

Same here, would be interested what a public statement by Billet would contain

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

2 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

Instead our warehouse is torn apart right now because they had to reinforce our roof in order to support the heat pumps that we've been trying to get procured since last summer.

I sincerely hope you guys are planning to make a video about that? It's always interesting to see large scale heat pump rollouts.

[RazielKanos]

25 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

You don't think Linus had already been made aware of a lot of the issues Steve talks about? A lot of this stuff isn't new at all, yet it's still not solved. 

true, true... BUT(T) Steve still could have contacted Linus about this, ask for a statement. At least thats my understanding of "investigative journalism"

[Ahmed Fawaz]

Yes there are not so few errors , some of which were harmful intentionally/or not , but it all can be sorted out and i think LMG are on the right path to do so 

Was GN video necessary? Yes , definitely

 

I think it will help the process by bringing some light on LMGs massive production rate wich in my opinion only viable for a 500+ employees company.

 

I think Linus needs to put more pressure on the labs team to finish setting up everything, at least to fully automate the testing process wich can eliminate a lot of errors ,

It also can have a direct impact on any possible sponsor bias intentional/or not .

 

The company is also in desperate need for good quality control on content production to filter out any inconsistencies.

 

These problems are consistent with such high growth rate LTT has been experiencing in the last 3 years.

 

Taking a moment to assess the situation is what i hope for as an LTT fan .

 

 

 

 

 

[CYJAN3K]

26 minutes ago, funkyhuggie said:

1. In the WAN show you stated that to retest the block on a 3090 TI it would cost 500 dollars. That is a large correction and 500$ of company money is a drop in the bucket.

And he said that many times himself. There, on a wan show, he says live that 800 per month is just rounding error correction - he says its not even a rounding error and when they found out that it is $800 per month they laughed

He also claims that they "probably spend more on snacks" - so this excuse with "it would cost $500 :(" is just made up completly, and he has to know that. He doesnt treat $800 per month too seriosuly. Thats just his way to make it sound like a lot for people who forget how massive LTT is.

But there is something tragic-funny in the fact that they are happy to spend money on snacks but wont spend them to give start-up proper chance. More tragic than funny but its so absurd.

[NoseyTable]

Personally, I feel that GN could have handled this a whole lot better than they did.  Sure, raise issues that you feel are necessary, but surely asking LTT for a comment would've been a logical step as well?  

Look, I know LTT is not perfect, but I truly believe that they are trying and I don't for a second buy into the conspiracy that they are only in it for the money.  They could've cashed out probably more than once if that was the case. Sure, its a business, but the passion in their work is palpable.

Do they make mistakes? Sure.  I mean, as a network engineer I sometimes want to scream at my monitor when they get something wrong, but then I remember that not everyone could get everything right and we're all along for the journey of them discovering and learning about tech, not because Linus is the infallible authority on all things technological.  Obviously they are working on their processes, especially with regards to the Lab and the testing methodology.  Its a work in progress, and they have been quite open about it.  (Also, saying that they affect the purchasing decisions is true, but I also remember more than one occasion where Linus stresses the need to view multiple reviews and only then form your opinion.)

 

Then comes the Billet Labs debacle.  Sure, this is definitely not ideal. A real blunder, in fact.  But need I remind anyone that people make mistakes?  Sure, this is bad, but the amount of people saying that it was intentional and that LTT did not care obviously have not spent any real time watching these hosts.  Also, who cares what steps are taken to resolve this?  If Billet is willing to take monetary compensation for the accidental auctioning of this item, surely that is their prerogative?  In the end, they are the ones who decide if they are happy with the steps taken to resolve this, not all of us.  After all, it was their prototype.

 

Personally, this has left a really bad taste in my mouth with regards to GN, especially because Steve insinuated constantly about Linus' (and the LTT team's) motivation for doing things. Not suggesting it, but outright saying why he and his team are making certain decisions.  I feel that it is incredibly unfair and in bad taste.

@LinusTech  I hope that the rest of you and your team's day is better, and I'm sorry for this.  Y'all deserved better.

[Kisai]

12 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

This happens frequently internally within a company, information doesn't get to where it needs to go. You never had it that something needs to be handled but it ends up in the mailbox of someone who's on leave, and then the backup who's in CC is on sick leave because they were foolish enough to drop a big wooden beam on their foot (speaking from experience here), and the first person then returns and thinks the person who's on sick leave already handled it, etc.? And it's really easy to misplace things once logistics gets involved.

 

I have a good one.

 

So the company I was contracted to, ordered a failover ISP connection. So one day I come in and basically they just left a router sitting in the back of the rack, plugged into nothing but the Fiber-to-ethernet adapter. That ISP was acquired by another between the time that installation took place and the rest of the parts arrived... a year later.

 

Basically nothing would have got done if I didn't constantly ask about it, because I was the only person with access to that room who actually kept track of such things.

 

To a certain extent, a lot of blame for communication problems has to be placed on "outsourcing" and understaffing of people who actually have access to facilities. You can't do jack with internet services when Telus will only show up on one exact date, and you can't get the 3 or so other people in India and Texas to coordinate, because they have the same communication problems. Don't even get me started with trying to contact Xerox. I wound up resetting the passwords on a device myself... something they were paying an Xerox rep for, because there was no way to coordinate someone.

 

The point I'm making, and others are trying to make is that LMG seems to lack people who communicate effectively to do these videos. That Billet item? That should NEVER have happened. Forgetting to take tape other peelys off things before testing them? That's on the tester. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think LMG has done anything grievously wrong, but there should never be a case where a video goes up with "factual errors corrected in post". There is a difference between "oops that's not a Ti model" and testing the product as though it's a Ti model. Either re-film it, or use Davinci's ADR and dub over the mistake, or just cut it entirely.

 

 

 

[True]

ok what a cluster duck.
 

Ok i have NOT watched the video yet..  but i have read the summery and @LinusTech posts.

As someone who works for tech company in IT i can TOTALY believe this happened and it was not malicious  but a issue where documentation was not properly attached to item and it going rogue in system and someone using for something it wasn't intended for then disposing of it.   I have seen more then one "compliance officer" hired due to something like this happening and it being part of a legal settlement.       

I am somewhat surprised GN would do a piece on  LTT without going to Linus for comment.      This is concerning..    

[Jooster]

Like Linus always says: voice your concerns, keep companies accountable and vote with your wallet.

[Uttamattamakin]

FWIW the only really wrong thing I see in that video is the auctioning off of that prototype.  Money may not properly compensate for that.  In fact in a lot of places that'd be a lawsuit. 

The rest can be explained by LTT trying to feed the hungry YouTube algorithm.  Keeping that machine burning has provided a living for over 100 people and that takes a lot.  Mistakes were made.  Perhaps they can do better at being transparent with corrections.   

[crism]

Just now, NapolianOlo said:

I always think Mr. Beast videos are popping back into my feed. These thumbnails are obnoxious.

I understand that there's "Marketing Research" that says these drive more clicks but I have a moral & design opposition towards the trend

there's other methods that can be just as performant but don't rely on these cheap tricks

[VinLAURiA]

5 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

We talk constantly about how we intend to move forward and make better content. It's just taking longer than any of us would like. If everything had gone according to plan, we'd have our camera range, theater room, and acoustic chamber done like 6 months ago. Instead our warehouse is torn apart right now because they had to reinforce our roof in order to support the heat pumps that we've been trying to get procured since last summer.

The real world is messy, and the more cooks you have in the kitchen, the more room there is for error.

 

With that said, if all you want is a non-ambiguous statement that we're going to keep trying to get better, then here it is. We're going to keep trying to get better. Gary did a wonderful 'state-of-the-union' update for the company this morning about recent milestones and what we have in store. Those investments will keep flowing, and I promise that they will be a win for consumers and the tech industry.

For now, it's hard to do because I'm frustrated by the timelines too, but all I can do is say, "Stay tuned. it's upward from here and we're really excited."

Would it help to have a live talk segment with Steve about the situation? Not to fuel the drama, but talk about the issues in an open, direct manner that has public eyes on it.

[Merciless SOZ]

I created an account just to say, I'm a long term watcher of LTT.  I enjoy their videos and love their "merch". 

 

1.  I think a good chunk of GN's criticism is valid.  Sure the way GN handles this is abrasive, but LTT already knows they have some of these issues even as they've been getting worse.  If it lights a fire under LTT and their new CEO then that is the part I care about.

2. They handled the Billet Labs testing issues terribly and the auction of the device after it was agreed to be returned.  Whether true or not, this needs addressed again ASAP.

3.  The number of corrections on reviews has grown to a concerning levels but the real problem is the haphazard way they handle the corrections.  I believe they are already working on this... but it is difficult to know how hard from the outside.

4.  Framework - Linus has been transparent about his investment and most if not all content to include this caveat.  Don't agree with this criticism as LTT has been clear that linus has investments there more than any other company I have even known.  I do think they should standardize how this caveat is included.

5.  The Labs - They were always going to have more problems in the beginning but that doesn't make them immune to criticism and feedback.

 

Hope LTT takes a step back to think and then responds to this with words then actions to resolve it.  I want to hold LTT to the standard they have set for themselves especially for labs connected content because I want them to do well and be a positive influence on the community. 

Edited Point 4 for clarity.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Merciless SOZ

[IndustrialBananaBread]

1 minute ago, RazielKanos said:

true, true... BUT(T) Steve still could have contacted Linus about this, ask for a statement. At least thats my understanding of "investigative journalism"

Yep, personally an attempt at contact by Steve to Linus directly would've gone a long way in the video, even if Linus didn't respond.

[LinusAuctionTips]

1 minute ago, True said:

ok what a cluster duck.
 

Ok i have NOT watched the video yet..  but i have read the summery and @LinusTech posts.

As someone who works for tech company in IT i can TOTALY believe this happened and it was not malicious  but a issue where documentation was not properly attached to item and it going rogue in system and someone using for something it wasn't intended for then disposing of it.   I have seen more then one "compliance officer" hired due to something like this happening and it being part of a legal settlement.       

I am somewhat surprised GN would do a piece on  LTT without going to Linus for comment.      This is concerning..    

why is it concerning that GN didn’t reach out. Why is Steve obligated to reach out?

[IndustrialBananaBread]

3 minutes ago, NapolianOlo said:

I always think Mr. Beast videos are popping back into my feed. These thumbnails are obnoxious.

100% Agree. Not every thumbnail needs a : O face and huge text.

[coopa]

2 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

We talk constantly about how we intend to move forward and make better content. It's just taking longer than any of us would like. If everything had gone according to plan, we'd have our camera range, theater room, and acoustic chamber done like 6 months ago. Instead our warehouse is torn apart right now because they had to reinforce our roof in order to support the heat pumps that we've been trying to get procured since last summer.

The real world is messy, and the more cooks you have in the kitchen, the more room there is for error.

 

With that said, if all you want is a non-ambiguous statement that we're going to keep trying to get better, then here it is. We're going to keep trying to get better. Gary did a wonderful 'state-of-the-union' update for the company this morning about recent milestones and what we have in store. Those investments will keep flowing, and I promise that they will be a win for consumers and the tech industry.

For now, it's hard to do because I'm frustrated by the timelines too, but all I can do is say, "Stay tuned. it's upward from here and we're really excited."

Quoting your entire statement to paraphrase a part of it:

 

3 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

With that said, if all you want is a non-ambiguous statement that we're going to keep trying to get better, then here it is. We're going to keep trying to get better. Gary did a wonderful 'state-of-the-union' update for the company this morning about recent milestones and what we have in store. Those investments will keep flowing, and I promise that they will be a win for consumers and the tech industry.

Other than the "we're going to keep trying to get better", the rest seems like wishy-washy corporate statements about a generic slideshow, what you plan to do, etc. etc... and "I promise they will be a win for consumers and the tech industry" is classic corporate "we are deeply concerned" speak. It's noncommittal to anything that was addressed in the video with vague promises to improve.

 

I urge you, please, take a day, two days, three days, a week, etc. to come up with a cohesive and heartfelt response. This is not feeling authentic, nor does it feel that it honestly addresses the issue from GNs video.