Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Cooldoe]

2 minutes ago, escape093 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pot_calling_the_kettle_black

 

See? I knew you didn't know what it meant. Also, look up the word "hypocrite" and come back.

Welk I guess I do call him that, but it does mean my criticism incorrect.

 

I am just requiring Steve to use the same standard in his video with the same ethic that he require from LMG

[MercuryRain]

8 minutes ago, escape093 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pot_calling_the_kettle_black

 

See? I knew you didn't know what it meant. Also, look up the word "hypocrite" and come back.

Not holding yourself to the same standard you demonstrably criticize someone else for not following seems pretty fucking hypocritical to me.

[escape093]

Just now, MercuryRain said:

Not holding yourself to the same standard you demonstrably criticize someone else for not following seems pretty fucking hypocritical to me.

What has Steve criticized LMG for that he is also guilty of himself? The argument seems to be "not having journalistic integrity", despite the fact that Steve displayed examples, cited sources, gave context and the like. Steve's videos are well edited, pretty well clear of mistakes, all thanks to a very flexible upload schedule and content production pipeline. He doesn't review products he has a significant investment in, and steers clear of conflicts of interest in his videos. But no, he had the audacity to not reach out to Linus before dropping the video, depriving him of the opportunity to sew the seeds of doubt in the community, so now he "lacks journalistic integrity", apparently just as much Linus who lept at the opportunity to go on damage control and misrepresent the timeline of events.

Give me a break.

[Dom1252]

32 minutes ago, Cooldoe said:

1. Billet lab version of timeline is not correct and there a miscommunication between billet and LMG. Based on Steve own standard, he should include that as people will see his video and get wrong information.

do you have any proof to this? 

because if I got all parties right... 

LMG admitted that they only reached out to them AFTER GN video - billet sent prototype saying lmg can keep it after testing for future testing/builds, then ltt did butchered "review", billet said they want block back, lmg said they will send it back, lmg auctioned it, billet said they are mad and asked if they'll be sent any money back, GN did video, linus replied to billet and at the same time made post here saying "we already made a deal with them" meanwhile billet didn't even respond to them how much they want yet or if they even want money, then billet and lmg made some sort of deal and billet said they choose money instead of getting product back because they don't trust lmg to be able to deliver it to them in a timely matter 

 

  

32 minutes ago, Cooldoe said:

2. I am not disputing LMG make mistake and just pointing out based on steve own standard he should mention that Linus already aware and try to address it. Failing to do so make the content inaccurate. Again not saying that he should not make the video but this should be disclosed and steve is clearly failing his own standard here.

Based on LMG videos getting worse and worse with mistakes, why should Steve say Linus is trying to address it? 

 

32 minutes ago, Cooldoe said:

3. It does when it is an industry standard and you are requiring higher standard compared to other in the industry. Failing to disclose that is a major fail

 

it isn't industry standard nor fail - also GN still had higher standards, way less mistakes and neither party usually  (GN nor LMG) reaches out to who they make videos 

 

  

32 minutes ago, Cooldoe said:

5. As I mention, if there is bias then he should show proof. He fail to do so and keep implying on the possible bias without proof. It is a tried and true method used by Fox news.

 

he's pointing the proof in Asus video, in Noctua video... 

but even then, he's more saying there's potential for bias and LMG should be treated as potentially biased, not that all their videos are malicious  

[starsmine]

5 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

do you have any proof to this? 

because if I got all parties right... 

LMG admitted that they only reached out to them AFTER GN video - billet sent prototype saying lmg can keep it after testing for future testing/builds, then ltt did butchered "review", billet said they want block back, lmg said they will send it back, lmg auctioned it, billet said they are mad and asked if they'll be sent any money back, GN did video, linus replied to billet and at the same time made post here saying "we already made a deal with them" meanwhile billet didn't even respond to them how much they want yet or if they even want money, then billet and lmg made some sort of deal and billet said they choose money instead of getting product back because they don't trust lmg to be able to deliver it to them in a timely matter 

 

There are people in this thread arguing that LMG writing up an email, and then forgetting to send it. Is sending an email to billet. All this to make the argument LMG contacted billet before the video. 

[Goriss]

Hey guys, is this for real? Another Apology?? This time from Linus lawyer?? I mean it's getting crazy.... and he should pay more then 500$ for a lawyer i mean he made it even WORSE then it already was oh gosh.

 

 

[Vexenar]

1 hour ago, escape093 said:

Oh and they later auctioned the thing off, without telling Billet Labs, and misrepresented what happened to it, which is borderline illegal.

To play devil's advocate here, they did initially say that LTT could keep the prototype and do what they wanted with it. 
It wasn't until the negative review and them clowning around with it in the video and misrepresenting it that they asked for the prototype back. 

What happened after that was 100% LTT's responsibility where due to internal communications the block was auctioned off, but it wasn't like it was their best prototype and their development was halted because of them missing it, if that's the case it made no sense for them to give it away to LTT to begin with. 

The entire story has some inconsistencies. 

[Cooldoe]

37 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

do you have any proof to this? 

because if I got all parties right... 

LMG admitted that they only reached out to them AFTER GN video - billet sent prototype saying lmg can keep it after testing for future testing/builds, then ltt did butchered "review", billet said they want block back, lmg said they will send it back, lmg auctioned it, billet said they are mad and asked if they'll be sent any money back, GN did video, linus replied to billet and at the same time made post here saying "we already made a deal with them" meanwhile billet didn't even respond to them how much they want yet or if they even want money, then billet and lmg made some sort of deal and billet said they choose money instead of getting product back because they don't trust lmg to be able to deliver it to them in a timely matter 

 

  

Based on LMG videos getting worse and worse with mistakes, why should Steve say Linus is trying to address it? 

 

 

it isn't industry standard nor fail - also GN still had higher standards, way less mistakes and neither party usually  (GN nor LMG) reaches out to who they make videos 

 

  

 

he's pointing the proof in Asus video, in Noctua video... 

but even then, he's more saying there's potential for bias and LMG should be treated as potentially biased, not that all their videos are malicious  

1. For the billet issue. Billet acknowledge there are some information that they did not inform Steve on their communication with LMG. Based on Steve standard this should be addressed.

2. Why should Steve mention that Linus already acknowledge the issue? For accuracy sake that Steve point out. The same standard that he require

3. We are talking vs norm that is done by other creator. If you are using standard that is not a norm then you should disclose that. Let say if Linus suddenly make a new testing parameter that show the performance of gpu better or worse that the standard method would you require him to disclose that? Failure to disclose this would be problematic

4. Not the proof of actual bias from LMG. Only suggestion of bias without a proof. For me that is very unethical.

 

Look, the only thing I ask is Steve using the same standard to him shelves that he require on LMG. From the video I see that he did not. That is my constructive critics to Steve. 

[MaleficWelter]

46 minutes ago, Cooldoe said:

I do agree with you sometimes our want to defend someone make us unable to see the mistake of our beloved creator.

I think this happen to both side of the fence.

 

I do agree that Steve need to make the video but I do hate the way he presented the information and the information that he choose to include and omit. I think he need to be called on that as well.

 

I also agree with you they need to make it clearer that short circuit video is only unboxing and not a review because I see a lot of the error is coming from short circuit and in someway they kind doing a bit of review as well like the pwnage mouse

Yeah, I do hope and maybe naïvely choose to believe that Steve did not do this to be malicious. I saw comments in his videos talking about how he just seemed uncomfortable throughout the videos. And I did feel that myself. I saw the Hardware Unboxed Podcast and felt that there too. In the, What do we do now?, video, it was so difficult to listen to Yvonne it felt like she was about to break down.

 

Gary seemed mad, and I suppose I could understand why he could be. There have been so many disclaimers about Labs not being ready but we are presented with data that trickles out from there and again people will do the same as with ShortCircuit.

 

I would venture I am not the only one to think this but, this whole situation is uncomfortable, but I suppose I agree with you, agreeing with me, that something had to happen and Steve's video was it.

 

I actually had not been saying I agreed or disagreed with it coming out. The ShortCircuit comment I made, I have had for a long time and it really feels hard for me to say that. I have seen many posts of people saying, "No one ever had an issue with any of this until Steve did!" and I do not know how to react to that. I do not feel like being attacked because we all have such difficulties seeing things from each other's perspective.

[Cooldoe]

34 minutes ago, Goriss said:

Hey guys, is this for real? Another Apology?? This time from Linus lawyer?? I mean it's getting crazy.... and he should pay more then 500$ for a lawyer i mean he made it even WORSE then it already was oh gosh.

 

 

I dont think it is real. It look like someone try to use this to hijack some view

[Goriss]

2 minutes ago, Cooldoe said:

I dont think it is real. It look like someone try to use this to hijack some view

How so? It's the same background and the guy is saying that he is Linus lawyer! I can't believe Linus went that far...

[Cooldoe]

1 minute ago, Goriss said:

How so? It's the same background and the guy is saying that he is Linus lawyer! I can't believe Linus went that far...

I do not know if you are being sarcastic or not but at this moment I would not believe something outside their official account

 

There are so many people want to cash in the current controversy 

[norskfyr]

12 minutes ago, Goriss said:

How so? It's the same background and the guy is saying that he is Linus lawyer! I can't believe Linus went that far...

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. It clearly says "Not a lawyer" in the first 5 seconds of the video.

[Goriss]

2 minutes ago, norskfyr said:

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. It clearly says "Not a lawyer" in the first 5 seconds of the video.

Where? I somehow don't see that.

[norskfyr]

1 minute ago, Goriss said:

Where? I somehow don't see that.

Within the literal first 5 seconds at 0:03, bottom right of the screen.

[ScoggsUK]

58 minutes ago, Goriss said:

Hey guys, is this for real? Another Apology?? This time from Linus lawyer?? I mean it's getting crazy.... and he should pay more then 500$ for a lawyer i mean he made it even WORSE then it already was oh gosh.

 

 

I what world do you live in thinking that a lawyer would make a youtube video of their client. 

 

It's obviously a joke.

 

[Goriss]

10 minutes ago, norskfyr said:

Within the literal first 5 seconds at 0:03, bottom right of the screen.

It's a lawyer.

[Goriss]

8 minutes ago, ScoggsUK said:

I what world do you live in thinking that a lawyer would make a youtube video of their client. 

 

It's obviously a joke.

 

So yet another joke from LTT I thought so. The first "apology" video was a joke so why not make another joke. But who is laughing?

[Majestic12]

2 hours ago, escape093 said:

Not testing a product properly is an objective matter. It's not "ethics." He literally tested the thing with a GPU it wasn't designed for, and decided to not bother retesting it with the right card. There was an objective way to test the block - with the card it was made for - and he did not do that. Oh and they later auctioned the thing off, without telling Billet Labs, and misrepresented what happened to it, which is borderline illegal.

 

Steve chose to not reach out to Linus, despite having all the time in the world to work on the expose video. No schedule, no rush. Some will say that wasn't the "proper" thing to do. Maybe, maybe not. But that's a subjective matter. He knew the consequences could have been, as he says in his expose, Linus trying to run out ahead of the narrative (which, again, he basically tried to do anyway, as Steve predicted: "we didn't sell it, we auctioned it.") Also, Steve is specifically defending Billet Labs based on their treatment by LMG. He says in his expose he has "no connection to Billet Labs." He took no stance on the value or pricing of the product, other than the cost to manufacture that Billet were now out after LMG auctioned it.

 

Pot calling the kettle black, my ass.

I agree with your first point - he should have done it properly. LTT needs to find the right line between "entertainment" and "informing the viewer". If they jank something together using spare parts, fine. No-one gets hurt. But doing this with a product from a start-up company is a pretty low blow.

 

HOWEVER. I also understand where Linus is getting at. He felt the product was just a bad idea for its price point and clearly wasn't in the mood to spend a lot of time on it since he didn't feel it was worth recommending to people even if it did work well. It feels like he was pushed into it by one of his staff and felt spending more time on it was wasted. If it hadn't been for GN no-one would even have cared though.

 

About the  "misrepresented what happened to it" - that's not quite true. They screwed up internally because Billet Labs changed their minds. If you work in an office you know there's basic procedures for just about everything and it all runs smoothly unless you have to deviate from said procedure which is what happened here. In this case the part was labelled as "property of LTT" & shelved and never re-labelled after Billet asker for it back because the person receiving the email was not the person in charge of the stock - from what I heard he was on vacation. This is just a string of bad luck for that specific part to then be chosen for auction.

[Rados]

On 8/14/2023 at 2:53 PM, Alvin853 said:

Well LMG has really been going downhill lately, I hope they see this as a wakeup call to reconsider some of their strategies. I'm not a fan of drama, but I have noticed a lot of issues with LMG videos lately and was hoping sooner or later this topic gets brought up so LMG can do the right thing.

 

Just look at this segment: 

Mr Framework Investor and supposed Right to Repair advocate Linus thinks it's "pretty cool" that the mainboard and case are non-standard so once you want to replace either one of them, the other one is unusable and becomes e-waste. 

Stuff like this happens way too often, and if LMG doesn't want to become a joke and untrustworthy they need to work on it.

Totally okay for me. I like to repair my phones and refurbish consoles, but I also like practical design and I thats why I would rather buy build with “pretty cool” things instead of buliding one myself.

[Budget DIY]

-moderated content removed-

Fanbois are also very often spreading misleading stuffs. But with this thread, I kinda expect that the mods are a bit more lenient. Let all the piled up "dislike" (hate/rage) out, and just do loads of damage control. Misleading content, like vids, can still be found. And if more attention is drawn to it on the boards by removing the link, it only makes things worse IMO.

[hmfaysal]

Why are all the Steve fanboys at LTT Forums? Why aren't they in GN forums? 

I am not trying to be argumentative, just curious to know. Looks like LTT/LMG will be okay in the long run.

 

Happy, sad, frustrated or excited, people are just gonna stick around for LTT/LMG content, and in the crevices of their forums, and merch store. 

[Cooldoe]

1 minute ago, Budget DIY said:

Fanbois are also very often spreading misleading stuffs. But with this thread, I kinda expect that the mods are a bit more lenient. Let all the piled up "dislike" (hate/rage) out, and just do loads of damage control. Misleading content, like vids, can still be found. And if more attention is drawn to it on the boards by removing the link, it only makes things worse IMO.

That is true but we are not talking about discussion on topic here. It is clearly just a trolling to get hits on a video trying to monetize the issue

[Arneun]

10 minutes ago, hmfaysal said:

Why are all the Steve fanboys at LTT Forums? Why aren't they in GN forums? 

I am not trying to be argumentative, just curious to know. Looks like LTT/LMG will be okay in the long run.

Because GN doesn't have a forum. They have only promise of having that again in the future on their website.

The only way of interacting with them is through their discord (I think access is paid on patreon), reddit (r/GamersNexus isn't normally alive sub - from what I've checked it normally has less than one daily post (but understandably blown up recently) - and I don't think it's even recognized by GN), and twitter (which isn't really place to hang out with creator).

[hmfaysal]

3 minutes ago, Arneun said:

Because GN doesn't have a forum. They have only promise of having that again in the future on their website.

The only way of interacting with them is through their discord (I think access is paid on patreon), reddit (r/GamersNexus isn't normally alive sub - from what I've checked it normally has less than one daily post (but understandably blown up recently) - and I don't think it's even recognized by GN), and twitter (which isn't really place to hang out with creator).

Cool, so boys hang here. LTT will be okay.

Thanks for hanging out everyone