Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[RedRound2]

1 hour ago, RWxAshley said:

For your first point. That changes nothing about the situation that has occured due to LMG neglect of its own business. They can compensate, and pay whatever they want, but that doesn't change the fact that LMG broke trust with a business associate, and failed to communicate with this company for months.

 

Its a mistake. He admitted it. It was probably one among the tens and thousands of products they have handled. And it involved multiple humans (who are far from perfect creatures). It happens from time to time. Do you have any idea how many major fuckups happen in huge corporations? Its quite frankly absurd, but it happens all the time and everywhere. It's just part of being a big company, unfortunately.

1 hour ago, RWxAshley said:

Linus reviewing it differently is the issue. I can throw a gpu into my PC, fail to plug the power cable in, and call it a negative review of the GPU, but that is simply bad testing methodology that is far beyond reason. He knew it wasn't fit for the gpu, and why. If he tested it properly, and then added onto the review that its limited to only that specific gpu it was built for what changes about his point? He gave it the best chance, and still kept it original point. The point he wanted to make didn't require him to do the extra work of testing it with the wrong GPU. It would only show how it works, what it works with, and then he can address the limited use of it, and the expense. Nothing would change if he properly tested it, and he could keep his original opinion. He literally loses nothing.

His claim was that even if it performed really well on 3090 or 3080 or whatever it was designed for, his conclusion would still remain the same. But yes, that is a mistake because Linus should have shown it on what it was designed for and give the ability to people to form their own conclusion. That is something he completely missed and he admitted to it as much in his response when he talked with Adam

[RedRound2]

3 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Cue the montage of LMG staff saying they need more time.

So isn't that the video that Linus was never supposed to see? Has the same feedback been given internally through proper channels? Was there a discussion and conclusions formed? If so what was it? We don't know any of this. At least I don't. See, there have been times where I bitch about my boss, but I wouldn't necessarily tell it to his face (later I did because I had to but there are many employees who don't)

 

Also LTT publishing videos every day is their identity. They haven't increased nor decreased their output in the main channel for the past 10 years. The solution for this I have is slowdown releases on other channels and make more eyes look at an LTT project than ever before, which I suspect is already happening/going to happen moving forward

[R.E. Visser]

12 minutes ago, filpo said:

And now we got the duo's take on it 

 

Also anyone else realise the traffic that just caught up?

Really hope Linus watches this aswell. I think they raise very good points and give constructive criticism. Especially the analogy between data from labs and a beta. I too believe that before implementation of labs data, the process should be more robust. And until that point use a tried and true method for reviews/ usage of the data. 

 

Discussion of the development of labs and the new methods is ofcourse very interesting, to me even more then the data itself. But I agree with HU that the implementation right now needs to be reevaluated.

[Empyreal]

12 minutes ago, VeryScary said:

Yeah, those aren't laptop REVIEWS. You're reaching. 

 

This is a laptop review. It's even stated in the title. 

 

 

 

If you can straight out deny those are laptop reviews when those are undeniably laptop reviews, then YOU are reaching. Might I add blinded, obnoxious, and in denial.

[filpo]

Just now, R.E. Visser said:

Really hope Linus watches this aswel

He won't actually publicly acknowledge it as he's said in the recommended post since there won't be a WAN show topic on it, which I think there should be 

 

1 minute ago, R.E. Visser said:

But I agree with HU that the implementation right now needs to be reevaluated.

And that even doing it manually is better than automation if we get better results manually (IMO at least)

[coN7r0L]

You consistently react to criticism like a spoiled child; you're so out of touch. The only one who didn't adhere to proper journalistic practices was you. LTT/LMG has become wide and shallow: prioritizing quantity over quality, showcasing technical oversights, relying on stupid humor, and adopting a questionable stance on various occasions. The best thing that could happen to you is being called out. If you're smart enough, you will use this unfortunate situation as an opportunity for self-reflection and improvement. However, if you believe that the current state of affairs at LMG is acceptable and that Steve is wrong, you are simply proving his point.
 

I'm writing this because I genuinely care. Old LTT holds some of the best memories I associate with my favorite hobby. I don't want to witness your decline, so take the initiative to help yourself. Many of your current videos are subpar. Focus on producing fewer videos while enhancing their quality. Don't just strive for growth; make meaningful improvements instead.

[filpo]

3 minutes ago, Empyreal said:

 

If you can straight out deny those are laptop reviews when those are undeniably laptop reviews, then YOU are reaching. Might I add blinded, obnoxious, and in denial.

he's right

16 minutes ago, VeryScary said:

Yeah, those aren't laptop REVIEWS. You're reaching. 

 

This is a laptop review. It's even stated in the title. 

 

 

they might be different but they are still reviews. Just because not everyone will buy one doesn't mean no one will acknowledge them. But at least two of those vids aren't reviews. The one with the hp repair isn't a 'laptop' review per se and the one with windows standby is just a video complaint

[RWxAshley]

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

Its a mistake. He admitted it. It was probably one among the tens and thousands of products they have handled. And it involved multiple humans (who are far from perfect creatures). It happens from time to time. Do you have any idea how many major fuckups happen in huge corporations? Its quite frankly absurd, but it happens all the time and everywhere. It's just part of being a big company, unfortunately.

His claim was that even if it performed really well on 3090 or 3080 or whatever it was designed for, his conclusion would still remain the same. But yes, that is a mistake because Linus should have shown it on what it was designed for and give the ability to people to form their own conclusion. That is something he completely missed and he admitted to it as much in his response when he talked with Adam

And its mistakes that LTT would be calling out, and featuring majorly as either a techquickie episode, or as a major topic on Wanshow if it wasn't a call coming from inside the house.

Its been haha funny for a while about employees taking stuff home they probably shouldn't, and how much a mess inventory at LMG has been, but its now time to fix it instead of laugh it off when if this was ten years ago, and youtube just accidently misplaced linus's channel forever and just tried to pay him off with a few thousand dollars he would be rightly pissed at youtube for the rest of his life. (Or if someone misplaced an entire pool in his backyard for years.)

This is the type of situation that money doesn't just pay off. It takes a real commitment to people that put trust into him from the start to correct the issue, ensure it doesn't happen again, and that he needs to address properly. Linus can do a lot more then just pay billet off for losing their only prototype, and still setting them back potentially months and losing them opportunity cost as a business.

The criticisms being leveled at LMG are the same anyone here would level at Youtube/Twitch if they were in the crosshairs instead of LTT.

[Nishh]

I must say that I'm genuinely surprised by the level of hate LMG has been receiving regarding information that was already publicly available. Apart from the billetlabs auction incident, Linus and the team have openly addressed these issues and explained why they need to push as many videos as they do. I just created this account to say that there's many people in community who actually understands the issues and that everyone makes mistakes and while you're getting a lot of hate, some of which are unreasonable and speculative, I believe that's a minority and there's a lot more people who have followed you closely and understand where you're coming from.

I can even understand to some community members displaying immaturity, but I believe that Steve could have approached the situation with greater maturity. Reaching out to you or your team instead of crafting a potentially inflammatory piece might have resolved matters more amicably. It's undeniable that the internet fosters an environment where individuals can easily hide behind screens to point fingers and accuse others of unethical behavior. Yet, your repeated acknowledgment that perfection isn't feasible resonates with rational consumers who understand that mistakes happen. Just like any other entity, LMG is bound to make errors, and it's wise for consumers to consult multiple sources before making decisions.

While it's perfectly reasonable for GN to highlight your missteps, I must say that his characterization of your team as unethical seemed like a bit of a stretch given the amount of information available. Speculation doesn't truly reflect his usual approach. Hopefully, this incident was merely a misstep on his part, and he can navigate past it as well.

In any case, hopefully people can move past this and I don’t have to see plethora of unrelated comments on every video. Wish you and the team the best.

[joaopt]

there really should be a bigger push from everyone for Linus to make things right with Billet Labs, what happened is beyond excuse, but they should really try, apologise and make things right ASAP, get them their block back whatever the cost, and issue a video making things right.

 

Given them some money is not an excuse.

 

MAKE THINGS RIGHT, CLEAN YOUR ACT

[Dom1252]

16 minutes ago, VeryScary said:

Yeah, those aren't laptop REVIEWS. You're reaching. 

 

how come? he is trying the product on camera, talks about it's pros and cons and makes conclusions? 

I agree they're not good reviews, but they do tick every box of a basic review

[Cosmic Emotion]

I just made this account for this specific thread. I want to say some very straightforward things.

 

1. Not talking about it in the WAN Show says everything one should know to understand how far this bs gets.

2. I wouldn't be surprised if Billet or some other person sues Linus (even personally) for the misleading information he has made publicly available en masse, repeatedly.

3. Karma is not your side. People should have known who you truly are since you didn't even seem to ,really, care about your fans or the people you hurt anyway. Perhaps next time care about your fans, in any sense conceivable,  more.

[Jignesh Chauhan]

Linus accepts feedback, LTT is one of the open organization I know off. However Linus always believes quantity over quality. It is more and more evident in the videos in the last couple of years. I love LTT and hope with so much drama and community feedback Linus takes this positively and learn from it. 

Personal request @LinusTech, scrap time sheets for employees it is very old school and BIG brother style of working. 

Trust your team a bit more. 

Will keep on watching LTT, LTT is the main reason I am tech enthusiast, I know other tech channel (including GN) because of LTT.

[filpo]

2 minutes ago, joaopt said:

MAKE THINGS RIGHT, CLEAN YOUR ACT

It's like 1789 all over again

[R.E. Visser]

2 minutes ago, filpo said:

He won't actually publicly acknowledge it as he's said in the recommended post since there won't be a WAN show topic on it, which I think there should be 

 

And that even doing it manually is better than automation if we get better results manually (IMO at least)

Yeah I too think this should be acknowledged in wan, that is the usual way in which these kind of things have been addressed before. I'm not sure what the motivation for not doing it is, maybe he will adres that at least. 

[ericmadeyourday]

1 hour ago, Karon said:

Let me translate:

 

Linus mislead customers with crap data, swapped the videos for corrected videos IN THE ONLY WAY THAT DOESN'T LET PEOPLE KNOW IT WAS SWAPPED and does nothing to try and inform the misinformed users. 

 

BUT GODDAMN STEVE SHOULDN'T LET THE PUBLIC KNOW ABOUT THIS! 

Nope. BS. Did really anyone need to be informed about this? The LTT subreddit is filled with the same stuff over the last months. The public did already know.

Try to think it that way: Do you think Gamers Nexus would have made this video, if the statement Tim made never happened? I don't think so. And that's why I feel like it's just a stupid revenge thing. My guess is he mainly wanted to fuck up Linus.

[filpo]

Just now, R.E. Visser said:

adres that at least. 

we can only hope, I don't want linus to be the bad guy. It's looking that way tho

[Guest]

Only a blind man cant see that LTT/LMG has grown way too quick and tried to shovel too much content out the door

 

This has led to pretty unforgiveable content on products, people are mad about Billet, but the amount of factually wrong

content about general products is astounding...almost every laptop review by Alex has corrections overlaid. This is acceptable

once every now and then, we get that its not possible to reshoot every video. But when you notice a pattern, you correct it,

and like i said, go watch any laptop review by Alex this year. This is mums basement level stuff, not what you expect from

a behemoth that Linus himself created...you create it, you tend it properly, or you packs it up

 

If i were ANY company sending product for review having watched the last few months of LTT/LMG output, id have gone literally

elsewhere for reviews, instead of the shitshow we've seen evolve here. Big companies expect an ebb and flow of positive/negative

reviews, its built literally into their business model and marketign budgets....

 

Where it gets Uber Shitty and Really Unprofessional is when those errors are taken as normal course of processes, remain

(properly) uncorrected, and then you go and double down on an emerging startup by not only completely approaching their

product with contempt - the video should have stopped when you realised you didnt have the correct video card to match the

product (im just going to say stop victim blaming, Linus), instead you forged ahead and seemed to have already taken a position

on a product based on price, and on a price you personally thought unreasonable (we have all noticed youre thrifty), rather than

giving it an airing based on its merits targetting its use case (the missing video card is YOUR fault). When your thought process is,

we dont have the correct equipment to test it, i know, lets just bag it out on the price (and step on the necks of hard working

people), then you dont get to express outrage when youre called on it.

 

I dont think im the only one who thinks perhaps your REALLY egegrious act of auctioning off their engineering prototype was

your ego and personal feelign about the price reaching its full ugly zenith, in trying to beat down a start up who sent you the

item in good faith

 

As we're learning, with some rapidity, after Trust Me Bro, is that you seem to have not only enough contempt for your peers,

but some left over for your audience too....

 

[JiRoDev]

11 minutes ago, Error 52 said:

Dolphin on MacOS didn't use OpenGL, it used MoltenVK, a translation layer that is slower than native Metal but not by too much. (There's a direct Metal backend now.)

At the time, LTT said they used OpenGL as it was faster than Vulkan in their testing, both are deprecated/not supported and doesn't change my point that it's not harder to find something that uses Metal rather than going out of your way to find something that uses OpenGL.

[RazielKanos]

2 minutes ago, Cosmic Emotion said:

1. Not talking about it in the WAN Show says everything one should know to understand how far this bs gets.

2. I wouldn't be surprised if Billet or some other person sues Linus (even personally) for the misleading information he has made publicly available en masse, repeatedly.

So you obviously read Linus statement since you acknowledge that he said he doesn't want to discuss it on WAN, but in the breath you ignore that he's saying that the situation with BL was already cleared out, and that LMG is going to compensate them - both information in the same topic you are referring to with your 1st point

That level of "own reality" is wonderful...

[Polderviking]

8 minutes ago, Nishh said:

I must say that I'm genuinely surprised by the level of hate LMG has been receiving regarding information that was already publicly available.

Well there's having access to information, and there is having this information in a easily consumable format... in this case materialized in the GN video.

 

Same happened with Zoom and that whole AI training thing.
The changes in their terms were made a while ago, it's not untill somebody started making noise about it that the backlash started to get loud.

[Godiwa]

27 minutes ago, filpo said:

And now we got the duo's take on it 

 

Also anyone else realise the traffic that just caught up?

the full podcast is WELL worth a full listen albeit a bit long: https://shows.acast.com/the-hardware-unboxed-podcast but the discussion is good and they pull up mistakes they have made themselves and how they handled it etc.

23 minutes ago, Polderviking said:

They turned on visitor verification on Cloudflare so my guess is that they are beeing DDoS-ed...

I people DDoS because of that video that is just pathetic... lets hope it is just a LOT of interest going on... but yeah frustrating being unable to get in etc.

[Empyreal]

26 minutes ago, VeryScary said:

Yeah, those aren't laptop REVIEWS. You're reaching. 

 

This is a laptop review. It's even stated in the title. 

 

 

 

Look, I found more laptop review videos after his Framework investment disclosure. Still wanna argue? What now?
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ToboRobot]

9 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

So isn't that the video that Linus was never supposed to see? Has the same feedback been given internally through proper channels? Was there a discussion and conclusions formed? If so what was it? We don't know any of this. At least I don't. See, there have been times where I bitch about my boss, but I wouldn't necessarily tell it to his face (later I did because I had to but there are many employees who don't)

 

Also LTT publishing videos every day is their identity. They haven't increased nor decreased their output in the main channel for the past 10 years. The solution for this I have is slowdown releases on other channels and make more eyes look at an LTT project than ever before, which I suspect is already happening/going to happen moving forward

You think all those people are keeping it a secret from Linus?  I don't think so.

Pretty sure it's been stated that it's a well known and discussed issue.

While they perhaps haven't changed the main channel schedule in a long time, they added new channels and other business lines which takes up peoples time.

 

[Alex T88]

9 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Its a mistake. He admitted it. It was probably one among the tens and thousands of products they have handled. And it involved multiple humans (who are far from perfect creatures). It happens from time to time. Do you have any idea how many major fuckups happen in huge corporations? Its quite frankly absurd, but it happens all the time and everywhere. It's just part of being a big company, unfortunately.

With all due respect, but how could it have been a mistake? It is a one of a kind prototype, which LMG agreed to return to Billet Labs, the rightful owner, on June 30th. It's not like they forgot to return it and it was left in a box in a warehouse, where everybody forgot about it, a month later, during LTX it was auctioned and sold. I don't think this can be made into a mistake. This was purposely done, with a one of a kind water block, not some random product that you can buy in bulk. 

 

14 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

His claim was that even if it performed really well on 3090 or 3080 or whatever it was designed for, his conclusion would still remain the same.

Which is kind of hypocritical, coming from someone who uses his pool to water cool some PC's in a server rack.