Looking for a DAC

[Benji_w]

Thinking of upgrading my sound, i'm using the inboard sound card of my Z170 sabertooth atm but i'm finding it difficult to locate enemies in games ect.

 

I've seen the creative x3 get a bit of praise and also the drop + epos PC38X. I read a review saying that the x3 helps get 7.1 with the pc38s? but unsure on that?

 

Both of these are within my budget new and used as i'm not working atm so pretty tempted. Any advice? do i? dont i?

[HanZie82]

Fyi that Realtek audio solution on that motherboard is very good.
You might be better of getting better headphones speakers first.

You should know with your post count, post more specs and what you already have.
Then most important location and budget.

[Skipple]

On 7/19/2023 at 7:21 AM, Benji_w said:

I read a review saying that the x3 helps get 7.1 with the pc38s?

No matter what anyone tries to sell you, you aren't getting "7.1" on a headset. The concept is nonsensical. 7.1 refers, specifically, to 7 distinctly placed speakers in a space along with a subwoofer for bass response. The only way to achieve 7.1 is to have a 7.1 sound system. Disregard anything else anyone says on that subject. 

[Stahlmann]

Don't rely on fake spatial audio. Good stereo imaging from an open-backed headphone like the PC38X will be a lot more effective than some fake surround. You don't need a dedicated dac/amp for the PC38X.

[minervx]

Any basic audio interface has a DAC.

[saintlouisbagels]

If you want a solid gaming headset, then the drop + epos PC38X seems like a good choice.

You don't need a DAC unless you're hearing a lot of noise in your headphones.

You don't need an amp unless your headphones are power hungry and you find yourself needing to really turn the volume all the way up for a comfortable experience.

 

If you want to truly detail-whore your way through shooters, then I would recommend

• Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X ($118)
• AKG Pro Audio K702 ($189)

These are both open-backed headphones (so it will leak a lot of sound, and you will hear a lot of external sound), and they're very bass-light. But you will hear every dang detail - basically x-ray goggles for your ears.

 

edit: For what it's worth, having listened to units ranging from $60 to $4000, I'm in the camp that swears there's no difference between good(!), cheap DACs and amps; and good, expensive DACs and amps. There will be others that claim that there's a massive, night and day difference when upgrading DACs and amps. I have to clarify good because there are products out there, regardless of price, that are designed like shit and will sound bad.

Edited July 19, 2023 by saintlouisbagels

[HAL90000]

6 hours ago, Benji_w said:

Thinking of upgrading my sound, i'm using the inboard sound card of my Z170 sabertooth atm but i'm finding it difficult to locate enemies in games ect.

 

I've seen the creative x3 get a bit of praise and also the drop + epos PC38X. I read a review saying that the x3 helps get 7.1 with the pc38s? but unsure on that?

 

Both of these are within my budget new and used as i'm not working atm so pretty tempted. Any advice? do i? dont i?

 

So, firstly, you're not going to notice the sound difference with a better device unless you have high quality highly resolving headphones or speakers. Also, if you want to use any wired headphone properly, you really want to feed it some amplification via a headphone amplifier. The sound difference is night and day. If you're using speakers, your best bet is to get a modern Soundblaster card and use the environmental audio features to accomplish your goal of better spatial audio. If you're using headphones, you really want a stereo solution and then you can use a pseudo 7.1 headphone software on top of that. There are a lot of good cheap headphone solutions. For example @ $100 USD the iFi Uno dac/amp is a small desktop unit with a better DAC than your motherboard as well as a small headphone amp to improve the sound of headphones. You can drive more difficult headphones with a device like that like Sennheiser 598 or even some entry level planar stuff. If you want to be able to use virtually any headphone on the market and start to grow a collection, stepping up to a $200 or $300 solution would be adviseable, such as a Schiit Modi+Magni pair or a Fiio K7.

Again though, if you have like $100 speakers or cheap headphones and aren't planning to upgrade those, you're wasting your money trying to upgrade the source, and would be better served by trying to find some sort of superior surround sound software solution.

[Benji_w]

jesus... im more confused now than i was before...

[saintlouisbagels]

9 minutes ago, Benji_w said:

jesus... im more confused now than i was before...

The practical answer is;

Upgrading your soundcard (headphone amplifier and DAC) is a marginal, almost pointless, difference in improving sound quality.

You should only upgrade the headphone amplifier if your current headphones require you to turn up the volume to like ~70% for a comfortable volume

You should only upgrade the DAC if the onboard audio is noisy

There are two camps of people regarding the importance of DAC/amps. Let's ignore them since you're not an audiophile.

 

Upgrading your headphones/speakers is the most noticeable way to improve your audio experience.

Since you seem to be keen on picking out audio details for improving your gaming performance, you should look into detailed, open-backed headphones (if your environment allows)

• Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X ($118)
• AKG Pro Audio K702 ($189)

Otherwise, the Drop + EPOS PC38X in your original post is also a good option since it's based off Sennheiser's other well-received headphones (I think?).

[Benji_w]

So basically just buy the headphones. Got it.

[Psittac]

Your title says you are looking for a DAC, then your original post says nothing about a DAC and asks about headphones. Or did I miss something?

 

Are you looking at the mentioned headphones AND a DAC?

 

Basic information:  A DAC is what turns digital audio into an Analogue wave that can be understood by physical audio outputs like speakers and headphones.  The signal that a DAC produces is very low level being that it is just a line level signal at this point, so you need to amplify it to a signal strength that can power said audio device.  Anything you're listening to has a DAC and Amp built into it.  Getting a DAC and/or Amp is commonly referred to when you get a dedicated solution for your headphones.  This can often times be an upgrade to onboard audio's built in solution but don't expect to be blown away by any improvements as HiFi audio is a game of diminishing returns.

 

There is a common misconception that the only time you gain improvement from a DAC/amp or an amp is when you don't have enough volume, however as headphones don't require the same amount of power across the spectrum, you start to lose detail as the headphone becomes underpowered.  I tested this by using the most power hungry headphones I own and trying them on several "levels" of amplification and while some of them could still produce high volumes, the quality greatly diminished while the same solution could still reasonably drive less demanding headphones.

 

If you are indeed looking for a DAC I have a few suggestions for entry level dac/amp's that I've had and tested in my personal collection.  So far as entry level is concerned a good DAC is the most expensive part while a cheap amp is easier to find, when looking at separates.

 

Entry level: Sybasonic SD DAC63116

This is on par or marginally better than my High end motherboard audio

 

Entry level MidFi: Schiit Fulla

This is going to be the cheapest actual "hifi" solution that I've found.  If you have something reasonable to be powered this will do it and do it well.

 

MidFi:  Schiit Hel or Schiit Magni+ Modi+ (IE Schiit stack)

Either of these will sound as clean and clear as the Fulla however it will have enough power to drive almost any pair of headphones properly.

 

For your concerns I would get the Schiit Fulla and PC38x

[saintlouisbagels]

2 hours ago, Benji_w said:

So basically just buy the headphones. Got it.

I mean, I think you have more comprehension skills than this.

But if you're not willing to interact with anyone's comments, sure. You got it.

[Benji_w]

On 7/20/2023 at 2:17 AM, Psittac said:

Your title says you are looking for a DAC, then your original post says nothing about a DAC and asks about headphones. Or did I miss something?

 

Are you looking at the mentioned headphones AND a DAC?

 

Basic information:  A DAC is what turns digital audio into an Analogue wave that can be understood by physical audio outputs like speakers and headphones.  The signal that a DAC produces is very low level being that it is just a line level signal at this point, so you need to amplify it to a signal strength that can power said audio device.  Anything you're listening to has a DAC and Amp built into it.  Getting a DAC and/or Amp is commonly referred to when you get a dedicated solution for your headphones.  This can often times be an upgrade to onboard audio's built in solution but don't expect to be blown away by any improvements as HiFi audio is a game of diminishing returns.

 

There is a common misconception that the only time you gain improvement from a DAC/amp or an amp is when you don't have enough volume, however as headphones don't require the same amount of power across the spectrum, you start to lose detail as the headphone becomes underpowered.  I tested this by using the most power hungry headphones I own and trying them on several "levels" of amplification and while some of them could still produce high volumes, the quality greatly diminished while the same solution could still reasonably drive less demanding headphones.

 

If you are indeed looking for a DAC I have a few suggestions for entry level dac/amp's that I've had and tested in my personal collection.  So far as entry level is concerned a good DAC is the most expensive part while a cheap amp is easier to find, when looking at separates.

 

Entry level: Sybasonic SD DAC63116

This is on par or marginally better than my High end motherboard audio

 

Entry level MidFi: Schiit Fulla

This is going to be the cheapest actual "hifi" solution that I've found.  If you have something reasonable to be powered this will do it and do it well.

 

MidFi:  Schiit Hel or Schiit Magni+ Modi+ (IE Schiit stack)

Either of these will sound as clean and clear as the Fulla however it will have enough power to drive almost any pair of headphones properly.

 

For your concerns I would get the Schiit Fulla and PC38x

Creative X3 isn't a DAC? I thought it was?

 

On 7/19/2023 at 12:21 PM, Benji_w said:

Thinking of upgrading my sound, i'm using the inboard sound card of my Z170 sabertooth atm but i'm finding it difficult to locate enemies in games ect.

 

I've seen the creative x3 get a bit of praise and also the drop + epos PC38X. I read a review saying that the x3 helps get 7.1 with the pc38s? but unsure on that?

 

Both of these are within my budget new and used as i'm not working atm so pretty tempted. Any advice? do i? dont i?

I'll look into what you've mentioned but from my understanding i'll be fine without a DAC and or AMP.

On 7/20/2023 at 4:35 AM, saintlouisbagels said:

I mean, I think you have more comprehension skills than this.

But if you're not willing to interact with anyone's comments, sure. You got it.

My comprehension skills are great, you're right. I've been told if i'm not getting noise or distortion and my current headset isn't struggling for power then i should just upgrade my headset (which you stated yourself...).

 

The way you're replying is saying a lot more about you than myself. I'm no audiophile but when someone asks me to explain stuff i also explain the jargon that goes with it.

[saintlouisbagels]

25 minutes ago, Benji_w said:

The way you're replying is saying a lot more about you than myself. I'm no audiophile but when someone asks me to explain stuff i also explain the jargon that goes with it.

6 different users gave you a response, and you replied with less than 20 words without any actual indication of reading anyone's posts. Don't defend yourself by saying you're no audiophile. You put in no effort to engage with anyone.

On 7/19/2023 at 3:09 PM, Benji_w said:

jesus... im more confused now than i was before...

On 7/19/2023 at 9:02 PM, Benji_w said:

So basically just buy the headphones. Got it.