Thoughts on JLCPCB?

[Sveeno]

Hello hello,

 

I wanted to get some community feedback regarding JLCPCB. They are a PCB manufacturing service similar to PCBWay. Just wanted to together some opinions, see if anyone has used it, and get a general temperature check. https://jlcpcb.com/

 

Thanks!

[Levent]

Actually just put my first order with them yesterday. I haven’t heard bad things about them (though I gotta say I haven’t went out of my way to look). Prices were significantly more reasonable compared to local venues. 

[2dfx]

18 minutes ago, Sveeno said:

Hello hello,

 

I wanted to get some community feedback regarding JLCPCB. They are a PCB manufacturing service similar to PCBWay. Just wanted to together some opinions, see if anyone has used it, and get a general temperature check. https://jlcpcb.com/

 

Thanks!

I ordered 5 keyboard PCB's for a 1800-layout I'm working on.  Shipping and assembly were timely.  Seemed like a decent product!

Edited July 10, 2023 by 2dfx
Added sauce

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Welp ive seen some sponsor spots for it on some yt channels that focus on diy electronics stuff (ex greatscott!) and there doesnt really seem to be any controversy or anything surrounding them, i mean theres loads of em using jlcpcb with seemingly no complaints

 

Judging by the comments above problably fine to take the sponsor here

[Mungaru]

29 minutes ago, 2dfx said:

I ordered 5 keyboard PCB's for a 1800-layout I'm working on.  Shipping and assembly were timely.  Seemed like a decent product!

What was the pricing? Is it worth looking into if I'd like to build my own keyboard with a custom PCB?

[SorryBella]

9 hours ago, Sveeno said:

They are a PCB manufacturing service similar to PCBWay

And similar to them theyre also quite cool especially for keyboard enthusiast. +1, would love to see the ad spot.

[minibois]

For my past keyboard projects I've used JLCPCB and I have been very happy with their quality and swift service!

Their PCB's look great (I've chosen green, black and purple solder mask so far), are packaged well and pricing is very good. Their order tracking is very detailed, showing you what step of the process the PCB is in during production, which is interesting to see.

 

I don't have experience with their assembly service, nor their component supplier (LCSC) nor their EDA (EasyEDA), so can't comment on those.

In short, I've been happy with the service JLCPCB has provided and as I am somewhat active in some keyboard communities, I've seen almost nothing but positive comments.

11 hours ago, Mungaru said:

What was the pricing? Is it worth looking into if I'd like to build my own keyboard with a custom PCB?

You can upload a Gerber file and get a quote right away, but especially if you have a coupon code from a YouTube sponsorship, they can be very affordable.

A 65% keyboard PCB I ordered from them was under €30,-, including shipping (product and shipping price were about equal). Smaller PCB's can be a lot cheaper though.

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

They are fine and probably the budget option out there.

PCB:

Some points to be aware of:

1. Customer service can be rough if it goes wrong.

2. Holding fake promotions/coupons events.

3. Quality isn't consistent (useable but noticeable fluctuations between orders).

 

PCBA:

PCB bullet points apply here. 

They also have parts in their PCBA library without footprint or datasheet (e.g. entire test point category). Even through they promised in chat they never replied in email later on or fixed it to this date.

 

3d-printing:

Very competitive rates with good quality. 

 

easyEDA:

Easy to use and most LCSC parts have footprints.  Feature set is basic but I keep using it as it is fast.

Downside is again support: Bugs don't get fixed, there is no warranty on footprint accuracy so you just have to eat it if they make a mistake on there verified footprints. They are also sloppy with using the correct PCB designator (most have U? as it is the default when a new footprint is created) and constancy/style.

 

LCSC:

Interesting prices, easy access to china ICs and as far as I can tell they reasonably mange the counterfeit issue. During the shortage they had some parts at broker level pricing (aka. scalper pricing) while other distributors where out of stock. 

Downside: In the past they used wireless-ESD armbands even in promotional videos which shows complete lack of knowledge. Meanwhile they are improving there packaging of MSLC ?-6 still I don't have trust that there wear house properly stores them in a dry environment.

Also if they don't have enough stock of a part they just refund it and let you figure out a solution. No offering of a substitution or asking what part you want to replace it. They just turn there issue into yours (ordering again or at a different distributor & paying shipping cost to just get 1 part).

Website keeps changing making it difficult to find entire categories after redesigns. For some parts you need to look them up on SZlscsc as the LCSC description can be lackcluster. Datasheets can be in mandarin even if English is available. 

 

Dataprotection?

As far as I can tell no issues. At least the email I used doesn't get spam from third parties (common issue with China). 

 

12 hours ago, Sveeno said:

They are a PCB manufacturing service similar to PCBWay

No. Not at all.

Both make PCBs but they aren't the same:

While LCSC/JLC from time to time is a hassle I keep using them.

 

PCBway screwed up the initial order (and support) so hard up that they are blacklisted. Categorized as scam due to how they quoted and communicated what changes they made that skyrocketed the quote above what anybody could accept as reasonable. Think PCBway never went a head and deleted the account as requested.

 

The way they operate is entirely different. JLC has invested heavily into automation, giving  them a competitive advantage. Good thing is there are still humans to catch issues the automation creates. Recently they started expanding there capabilities which is great but hopefully they understand what made them big and keep that aspect.

PCBWay seems to be still operating in the old fashion way with little automation.

[Lingwendil]

I've made at least a dozen orders from JLCPCB, and have always been pleased with the overall experience and quality. They are well packed and ship quicker (to California, at least) than the quoted speed on the economy options.

[2dfx]

On 7/10/2023 at 5:48 PM, Mungaru said:

What was the pricing? Is it worth looking into if I'd like to build my own keyboard with a custom PCB?

Sorry for the long delay in the reply.  I paid $43.26 CAD for the 5 boards, shipping included!

[Mungaru]

5 minutes ago, 2dfx said:

Sorry for the long delay in the reply.  I paid $43.26 CAD for the 5 boards, shipping included!

That pricing sounds great, was it components included or just the bare PCB?

[Lingwendil]

if you keep the size 100mm square they can be very affordable. My last few batches were under 12USD shipped for 5 or 10 boards depending on promotion and options.

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

@Lingwendil Even if you go bigger they are cheap (that's what keeps me using them. The price gap between them and the competition makes up for the troubles) and "extras" are reasonable. Would need to check but even v-scoring on a prototype order is like $15 or so.

For reference what v-scoring means for them:

1. collect the routed PCBs

2. transport it to the v-scoring station/machine

3. setup the machine to the specified cut positions (not sure if there are automated machines. Usually this is done manually by a worker)

4. run your piss poor 5 PCBs 

5. ship them

 

My 5pcs. 217x107mm PCB (2 layer, HASL lead free) was $15. Paired with another 5 pcs. 100x100mm (lead free), shipping and taxes the total was just $25.

Another order: 

200 pcs. 100x13mm (aluminium, lead free) was $21. Not bad.

Edited July 13, 2023 by FlyingPotato_is_taken

[Spuriae]

I've spent a couple hundred dollars at this point across most of the JLC services (Boards, Assembly, 3D Printing, LCSC, EasyEDA) and have had good experiences overall.

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

We found their quality to be very variable, so they probably outsource to multiple manufacturers.

 

On 7/13/2023 at 2:45 AM, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

@Lingwendil Even if you go bigger they are cheap (that's what keeps me using them. The price gap between them and the competition makes up for the troubles) and "extras" are reasonable. Would need to check but even v-scoring on a prototype order is like $15 or so.

For reference what v-scoring means for them:

1. collect the routed PCBs

2. transport it to the v-scoring station/machine

3. setup the machine to the specified cut positions (not sure if there are automated machines. Usually this is done manually by a worker)

4. run your piss poor 5 PCBs 

5. ship them

 

My 5pcs. 217x107mm PCB (2 layer, HASL lead free) was $15. Paired with another 5 pcs. 100x100mm (lead free), shipping and taxes the total was just $25.

Another order: 

200 pcs. 100x13mm (aluminium, lead free) was $21. Not bad.

It's usually quite automated in large plants, sadly NDAs preclude me from showing video footage, but basically:

1 & 2) Usually it's conveyorized for large volumes, but there are a couple of systems in use for more batch-oriented production.

3) Usually some sort of identification code is present, the CAM software will automatically generate the necessary files for the machine and send it over before the board even enters into production in most instances. Alignment happens either optically or through alignment pins, thickness tolerances on PCBs are quite good in most instances, so if the machine was configured correctly it should be within manufacturing tolerances without an operator manually setting the panel thickness.

4) Most large plants run 24" x 18" panels, by no means will they only be running your 5 PCBs  

5) After depaneling is usually manual work.

 

But as to JLCPCB, I found their quality to be quite variable on the routing and drilling work. They're probably working together with multiple plants.

[kelvinhall05]

Disclaimer: have not used them in a while, most of what I say likely still applies but improvements have likely been made, they seem to constantly be doing so.

 

Dirt cheap boards, good quality. Have had a shitload of 5-run prototypes that came out great as well as a 100-run (x3) for a keyboard group buy and only had one dead board out of all those. SMD assembly is good though the configurator leaves a bit to be desired, or at least it did when I last used it a while ago. Parts selection could also be better but again, [disclaimer]. I had them resin print some small things twice and both turned out extremely well even though I did not CAD them at all with the intention of being easy to print. The prints were similarly cheap.

 

Overall I've been extremely satisfied with all their work and will simp for them to no end. That being said, I am not aware/informed of any potential controversies they may have outside of the work provided, so maybe make sure there isn't anything alarming there (I doubt there will be tbh).

 

ETA: SMD configurator, editor, whatever. If you've used it, you know what I'm referring to, and where its weaknesses lie.

[trag1c]

I've used them a fair bit for 2 or 4-layer PCBs and stencils. Excellent service, super cheap, quality definitely isn't the best I've seen but good enough for most applications. But for super high quality you will also pay a ludicrous amount of money.

 

 

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

21 hours ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

4) Most large plants run 24" x 18" panels, by no means will they only be running your 5 PCBs  

 

Their are machines for v-scoring that work with entire panel/partial grooves in both directions simultaneously?

All machines I know pull the entire panel/PCB trough and as such prototype orders need to be routed first.

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

2 hours ago, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

Their are machines for v-scoring that work with entire panel/partial grooves in both directions simultaneously?

All machines I know pull the entire panel/PCB trough and as such prototype orders need to be routed first.

Yeah, four-axis CNC v-scoring machines have been around for a while, and I'm talking about the ones with a grinding wheel/saw blade - not router style with a v-shaped cutter. How else do you think the jump cutting works? Even seen a few machines with multiple heads already.

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

9 hours ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

How else do you think the jump cutting works?

You can do what??? I not even once considered/looked for such capabilities.

 

Seriously when do you strictly require this?

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

3 hours ago, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

You can do what??? I not even once considered/looked for such capabilities.

 

Seriously when do you strictly require this?

V-scoring is quite useful in the assembly and transport stage, you don't need custom tooling and you can simply assemble the entire panel and throw it in a crate for 24"x18" (or 18"×12" or ...) to the customer. Saves you tens of thousands on getting custom boxes made. And a steel rule punch at the customer premise to depanel the entire thing is relatively cheap.

 

As to jump scoring specifically, PCBs aren't necessarily all the same size or rectangular, we try to maximise panel utilisation and it can help a lot to get more on the same panel.

 

And there's a lot of other weird stuff we can do that the enthusiast community never really thinks to ask about. Like simply the number of variations on the standard PCB process to control specific parameters, routing in odd shapes or only through parts of the board, leaving away particular layers to create cavities to directly access or even assemble on inner layers, putting capacitors or entire chips inside PCB dielectrics, and even simple things like leaving on the peel-off soldermask used during some production steps. Talk to the manufacturer if you want to do weird stuff, and avoid the Chinese ones for such things if you don't know the lingo - or you end up with weird things.

[Sveeno]

Thanks for the feedback here, everyone!

 

Going to lock this thread now.