Only YOU can fix GPU pricing... Here's how!

[jakkuh_t]

 

[filpo]

Short version: Buy used

[Zodiark1593]

Given some recent price drops, my used $250 RTX 3060 doesn’t look especially fantastic, but given the rest of my platform, I’m happy with it. Pretty massive jump from my old 2 GB 960, so I’m not terribly picky. 
 

Kind of on the lookout for a used 4790K now though. 

[SolarNova]

No sh*t Sherlock

 

In all seriousness though, I so wish 'our' community was more ....principled.... and actual DID the things necessary to keep these companies under control. Like not buying overpriced products. Alas its all mememe ..mineminemine ..give me now ..i want it ....take my money ..etc etc nowadays. No money sense. (and no just because one 'earn' alot of money, doesn't mean one has money sense)

 

On the up side, while it would be better for 'people' to finally say "no" sooner ..like immediately ..rather than THREE ! generations of price gouging later ....it does kinda seem like people are FINALLY opening their eyes.

I suppose there's only so much time one can stand taking it up the youwho from GPU manufacturers , even for the most stubborn of people

 

Speaking of stubborn ..

My 1080ti popped just over a week ago (will try resurrecting it in a about a months time when i've got time of work to go to a repair shop)

So ....im now using an old 980ti i had in storage instead

Do I need a faster card. .yes.. yes i do.

Am i going to pay the obscene prices that have been on offer for the last 3 generations ... No ..no im not.

 

Principals ... see its not hard

[Real_Smoky]

As you may have noticed, LTT has released a new video on buying used GPUs:

The video offers some important insights, but I would like to add a few of my own experiences and how I handle buying and selling used GPUs, but also other electronics and second-hand products in general.

Why am I qualified to comment on this issue and give a "last guide you will ever need"?
As somewhat of a collector, I have bought and sold a fairly high number of GPUs, assembled PCs, a bunch of RAM sticks and other electronics. I also occasionally buy and sell music-related gear like guitars and amps. I think 80 percent of the stuff I own is bought second hand. This guide will mostly focus on GPUs, but is applicable to gaming PCs, RAM, CPUs, phones. You will just have to adjust the test suite. Finding the right test suite is not easy, but we can debate about it. I know what works for me.

A little asterisk here: I mostly buy and sell low-to-mid end stuff for casual gamers. My GPU focus lies in the 0-200 euros range, so I am not going to be completely qualified to tell you what to look out for when buying a used 700 euro GPU, but I am pretty sure most of these things apply there as well. 

Buying used gear:
If not buying via Ebay or other online platform that protects buyers and is very biased toward them, test the stuff before buying, no matter what

I know this is uncommon in the US (and probably Canada), but in Europe it is very common and if you all push, it can become common - test electronics either at the seller's place, ask the seller to come to your place for testing, or agree to meet up somewhere where it can be tested, like a local computer repair shop.

 

In the first two scenarios, ask the seller if they have a testbench or test PC, or make sure to have a portable testbench, or ready up your own PC so that you can chug it in and test the card. A GPU testbench in particular doesn't have to be expensive and will double as a testbench for RAM, SSDs and HDDs, USB devices and peripherals, as a cloning station or as a secondary system for LAN parties. A 3rd Gen i3 board is more than enough for testing most cards, if you really wanna test 3070 class GPUs and above, you might wanna step up your game. I recommend a DDR4 platform, like a 6th or 7th gen i3 or i5. Slaughter an old case if you want it to be an open air bench or look out for cases like the Core V21 (mATX) or the Lian Li Pitstop. You can also go the ghetto route and glue some rubber legs to a PSU, put a non-conductive surface between the PSU and the MoBo, tie it down with zipties and you are good to go. Make sure the PSU has enough watts and two to three 6+2 PCIE power connectors. 

https://builds.gg/builds/minimalist-gpu-test-bench-2-0-32276

 

If you wanna test the card at a PC repair shop, offer them a little cash for their time and effort. You don't need to mention that it is a sale necessarily, just tell them you can not pinpoint the issue and would like to test the GPU for 5 minutes. There may be some PC parts donation organizations or similar at your place so maybe they would help you with that. Anyhow, I am no longer buying anything that I don't test personally, or where I know that the selling platform sides with the buyer by default.

The test suite:
As for my software test suite, what works for me every time is: Furmark, GPUMemTest and Superposition (or Heaven for older cards). All these tests are free!

 

Superposition is good because you can set a custom resolution that is really high to max out the VRAM. I always do two runs: one with a preset, so I can memorize what the score should be and compare it to other cards in that range (keep in mind that the score can differ between the same model of card significantly, but still, if the lowest scoring card has a score of 1000, the highest scoring has a test of 1800, but the card you are testing scores 200, there is something wrong with it probably).

GPUMemTest is good for confirming the VRAM is good, but if it fails, don't worry just yet - it does not necessarily confirm that the card is bad! Sometimes it fails for no reason, especially on some very old graphics cards or specific models with weird VRAM configurations like the GTX 970 line.

Furmark is tried and true. You don't want the GPU to hover around 90c, except if it is a 3090 or something like that.

If the seller has no idea about benchmark software, ask them to at least start a somewhat intensive game like Assassin's Creed Odyssey or GTA V at really high settings. Suggest a game that is okay for the card you wanna buy. Don't suggest testing MSFS when buying a GTX 950 for 30 USD. Testing CSGO or Stardew Valley when buying an RTX 3060 makes little sense, either. You need something to max out the VRAM. 


Selling stuff online:

When selling used stuff, make sure to document the functionality with a lot of high quality photos, wide shots and closeups, with serial numbers, and even a video or two. Invite the buyer to your home to demonstrate the functionality one last time or send them the video via WeTransfer or upload it to YT as an unlisted video. All of this will save you so much hassle with dealing with both scammy sellers and ignorant buyers. 

Again, I know that US citizens have a bit of a fear of inviting strangers into their homes. If you live in a really unsafe neighborhood, I can understand that. But if nobody starts doing this, you will always have to gamble when buying and selling used gear. There are other ways around this, like carrying a testbench and a UPS. 

I no longer sell anything more expensive than 10 euros without demonstrating the functionality to the buyer and if I do online sales, I make it super-ultra-giga-mega-clear that I have uploaded both photographs and audio-video files that demonstrate the functionality of a device and that "don't worky at me place" will be considered user error and that it will not be accepted as a reason for returns and that by writing me, they confirm that they have read, understood, considered and accepted this. 

Ever since I started demonstrating stuff with my software suite, I have gotten a single complaint out of a couple dozen or even hundreds of sales. The GPU was apparently "too loud" and "crashed in multiple PCs". I made the mistake of telling the buyer to return it, even though I could have denied the request. I was afraid the buyer damaged the GPU. Luckily, the GPU came back successfully and was still working perfectly fine. The next buyer loved the card. Since then, I also record videos demonstrating how loud the card is under load, especially when selling online via shipping. In person, this is not a problem, obviously. 

So, there you go. If you got suggestions as to what I could add to this guide, let me know.

[Arokhantos]

Are you sure about warranty on new hardware, usually i see people not getting warranty at all and post horror stories these are sometimes very common, most common is due void warranty stickers.

[DeerDK]

I'm doing my part... For now... I have been drooling quite a bit over the new cards for months now, but I haven't bought any. 

Can't hold out for ever though. 

Please let rx 7700 be good and fair priced

[Real_Smoky]

27 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

Are you sure about warranty on new hardware, usually i see people not getting warranty at all and post horror stories these are sometimes very common, most common is due void warranty stickers.

They are not legally enforceable. 

[Arokhantos]

26 minutes ago, Real_Smoky said:

They are not legally enforceable. 

 

They still try even for the slightest scratch even if its just visual

[Dragonwinged]

      You know what could cause gpu prices to drop? If an apu can do the same thing as a dgpu. I thought maybe in about five or six years we'd get an apu capable of raytracing. Then I saw this video.   

 

 

 

so maybe 5-6 years was too long. Maybe 2-3. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Dragonwinged
fixing video link

[Vishera]

For Western Europe and UK CEX is a good place to buy used GPUs.

[Zodiark1593]

7 hours ago, Dragonwinged said:

      You know what could cause gpu prices to drop? If an apu can do the same thing as a dgpu. I thought maybe in about five or six years we'd get an apu capable of raytracing. Then I saw this video.   

 

 

 

so maybe 5-6 years was too long. Maybe 2-3. 

The problem with APUs is that you often need a platform upgrade. Upgrading my system for example (especially factoring in the ram, along with mobo and chip), an APU isn’t even in the consideration. 

[AndreiArgeanu]

I have never bought a new GPU my entire life. And I will be forever adamant that the shortages and price hikes we've had and the one's we'll see in the future are always in the control of the consumer. If people weren't willing to pay several times the MSRP for a product, or the new increased MSRP, the prices would drop, scalpers only have so much capital to buy goods and at some point they're going to need to drop prices if they expect to even get their money back. But people do buy them at those ridiculously inflated prices, because god forgive they wait a bit to get it at a reasonable price. Like seriously, you waited to get this new product, but then of all sudden you can't anymore?

[MisterZero]

On a somewhat related note to GPU pricing, I have a question for the labs team and I guess also our favorite CVO.

Will the labs' data on GPU performance also include a performance per watt metric?

While I do understand that such metrics are difficult to exactly represent, having a measurement of power draw for the test benches during MarkBench runs would be great. Many places around the globe unfortunately live nowhere near BC-Hydro and can't get almost free electricity like LMG, while in some cases it may still result in acceptable energy prices, many parts of the world have seen energy prices soar over the last 18 months.
For me and my buddies in the EU, the prices which already weren't too great have started to make us question whether we would really like to buy the latest and greatest GPUs because of power consumption concerns.

 

I foresee a future in which I could target a performance range within which I could then choose the most efficient card. While for some people this might not be super useful or important, I would really like to go back in power draw but I am unsure how the manufacturer TDP and performance claims compare to real world usage.

I hope something like this either already is or could be added on the roadmap for MarkBench :)

[GreatnessRD]

This will never work because folks can't help themselves. 

 

No me though. Stay safe outchea.

[Jaco Campher]

Had to replace the thermal paste on my laptop last week as it was having performance and heating issues. Laptop is just over 4 years old.

This fixed the problem, but will buying a second hand graphics card not have the same problem?

From what I found online the life span for thermal paste is only 3 year.

[Arika]

telling people to not buy the newest shiny toy for their PC so they can play games at a slightly higher refresh rate that they will never notice?

 

it's like you don't know your audience at all.

[DeerDK]

10 minutes ago, Arika S said:

telling people to not buy the newest shiny toy for their PC so they can play games at a slightly higher refresh rate that they will never notice?

 

it's like you don't know your audience at all.

That is the oxymoron of the tech space. 

Getting all excited for the latest tech, looking at the improvements, counting the fps, telling people NOT to buy all that exciting new stuff because the manufacturers are do-do-heads. 

 

Not pointing fingers. I've caught the hype myself. Life was more peaceful before I looked into what I COULD get instead of just focusing on my pc playing the games I like without lag. 

[bobbienet]

Something interesting at 9:00; are those pink powder coated Open Bench Tables (OBT)? I'd love to make a Pink and Teal colored one (I guess pink plate and teal legs) to get signed at LTX this year. Have the labs team published any info about these? If not I can publish my findings if I can get a custom colored one built

[LMGcommunity]

44 minutes ago, bobbienet said:

Something interesting at 9:00; are those pink powder coated Open Bench Tables (OBT)? I'd love to make a Pink and Teal colored one (I guess pink plate and teal legs) to get signed at LTX this year. Have the labs team published any info about these? If not I can publish my findings if I can get a custom colored one built

We had these benches custom powder coated locally!

[bobbienet]

1 hour ago, LMGcommunity said:

We had these benches custom powder coated locally!

If it's not against the rules I'd love to get their Business name to send some business their way! 

How did you strip the anodization off before the Powder Coating, and did the heat affect the fitment of the 5052 Aluminum? Most documentation I've found say that 5052 is temperature set so powder coating isn't recommended but it looks great in the video!

[TeslaDummy]

no video today

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

On 6/20/2023 at 12:32 PM, SolarNova said:

No sh*t Sherlock

 

In all seriousness though, I so wish 'our' community was more ....principled.... and actual DID the things necessary to keep these companies under control. Like not buying overpriced products. Alas its all mememe ..mineminemine ..give me now ..i want it ....take my money ..etc etc nowadays. No money sense. (and no just because one 'earn' alot of money, doesn't mean one has money sense)

 

On the up side, while it would be better for 'people' to finally say "no" sooner ..like immediately ..rather than THREE ! generations of price gouging later ....it does kinda seem like people are FINALLY opening their eyes.

I suppose there's only so much time one can stand taking it up the youwho from GPU manufacturers , even for the most stubborn of people

 

Speaking of stubborn ..

My 1080ti popped just over a week ago (will try resurrecting it in a about a months time when i've got time of work to go to a repair shop)

So ....im now using an old 980ti i had in storage instead

Do I need a faster card. .yes.. yes i do.

Am i going to pay the obscene prices that have been on offer for the last 3 generations ... No ..no im not.

 

Principals ... see its not hard

A used 3080 for $350 is calling your name. Not supporting AMD or Nvidia that way, just some random Ebayer

[Real_Smoky]

On 6/20/2023 at 8:53 PM, Dragonwinged said:

      You know what could cause gpu prices to drop? If an apu can do the same thing as a dgpu. I thought maybe in about five or six years we'd get an apu capable of raytracing. Then I saw this video.   

 

 

 

so maybe 5-6 years was too long. Maybe 2-3. 

That's like saying "you know what would replace airplanes? A car that can fly and be as fast as an airplane!"

Um, sure, but it would cost as much as an airplane and use up as much electricity as a dGPU. You can't cheat physics. An iGPU is not slow without reason - it is slower because it is extremely tiny compared to a dGPU. 

In 5-6 years, when and if we have 1080p 60fps raytracing capable APUs, dGPUs will run 8K 120FPS raytracing games and people will want that, just like people now can get 1080p 60fps APUs but actually

want a 1080p 300fps, 1440p 144fps, 4k 60fps GPUs or more (depending on your preferences obv).