EU to fit every car in the EU with tracker chips, supposedly to help emergency services

[Jobobee]

 

 

 

 

This is only for the UK now, but will be in all EU countries soon.

Every new car sold in Britain will have to have a ‘black box’ device fitted to track drivers’ movements from next year, under plans being imposed by the European Union. Despite serious concerns about privacy and cost, UK ministers admit they are powerless to stop the Big Brother technology being forced on motorists and car makers. 

 

The Government believes the gadget, designed to help emergency services find crashed vehicles, will add at least £100 to the cost of vehicles without providing significant safety improvements.

 

 

Officials also fear the scheme, known as eCall, could be used by police or insurance companies to monitor motorists’ every move.   

The European Commission has ruled that by October next year, all new cars and vans sold across Europe must be fitted with the technology, which contains a mobile phone-like SIM card designed to transmit the vehicle’s location to emergency services in the event of a crash.

 

 

[brownninja97]

this is good and bad.

[Bluejay0]

this is good and bad.

Like everything in the world.

[Askew]

If this is twisted into something that's on all the time/can be remotely activated/polled then I strongly oppose it and personally distrust anyone who tries to say there's not window for abuse.

 

This part in particular.

 

The study said manufacturers will want to include ‘value added services’ for the SOS devices, such as sharing the data with insurers and recovery firms.

 

So you could get a phone call saying "Sir you recently drove down a dangerous road, want to join the AA?"

[Jobobee]

I just noticed how fake the car crashing in that photo is... I could do a better job than that.

[Snickerzz]

I agree with brown, good and bad

It can help emergency services find you and if your cars stolen, depending on how skilled the thief is, you would be able to get it back. Bur then your also being tracked constantly and theres the added cost to the car

[Theo]

Cost? wow 200$ sure sounds a lot when considering buying a car, oh wait
Privacy? I fail to see how this is a concern when most vehicles sold now already have a gps ( or driver buys an external one) which is already monitored by 8 satellites 

[wilbso]

I agree, it's good and bad. I think the part about it being able to track where you are for emergency services is good, but the EU will take advantage and track every move we make without us knowing, like the NSA with the IE bug/hack.

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

Cost? wow 200$ sure sounds a lot when considering buying a car, oh wait

Privacy? I fail to see how this is a concern when most vehicles sold now already have a gps ( or driver buys an external one) which is already monitored by 8 satellites 

You dont understand how GPS works.

[Mooshi]

I'm glad I don't live in the UK

 

Oh wait, the NSA...shit.

[Theo]

You dont understand how GPS works.

i know how it works and i know i didnt chose the right words there but i see no difference between that and this new "law"

[Askew]

i know how it works and i know i didnt chose the right words there but i see no difference between that and this new "law"

 

Yes there is a difference, this tech will not only get GPS lock it will also transmit your location to a server somewhere. Sat-Nav doesn't do that last part.

[Theo]

Yes there is a difference, this tech will not only get GPS lock it will also transmit your location to a server somewhere. Sat-Nav doesn't do that last part.

how do you know a company like tomtom doesnt? you need to register your device for updates and all that, each machine is different so they could be saving your location to their servers

[bob345]

sounds like its just a required lojack system.

[Askew]

how do you know a company like tomtom doesnt? you need to register your device for updates and all that, each machine is different so they could be saving your location to their servers

 

No outgoing signal is needed to use GPS for navigation, most sat nav units don't even have a transmitting radio.

[Eddyall]

I just noticed how fake the car crashing in that photo is... I could do a better job than that.

 

Like you could do worst then a green road.

Seriously what the f*ck is in the middle because it's not water?

[Theo]

No outgoing signal is needed to use GPS for navigation, most sat nav units don't even have a transmitting radio.

lol that edit though, where i want to get at is, since gps doesnt send anything out, how bad can a little device that takes your gps location in the place of the accident and sends it to the police or whatever to come possible save your life. 

If they track my location but possible save my life one day or not track me and not know i was in accident, ill take the first one any day

[Askew]

lol that edit though, where i want to get at is, since gps doesnt send anything out, how bad can a little device that takes your gps location in the place of the accident and sends it to the police or whatever to come possible save your life. 

If they track my location but possible save my life one day or not track me and not know i was in accident, ill take the first one any day

 

I never voiced my thoughts on it in this conversation, I have only talked about how the technology works.

 

And yes that edit, temptation to be a douche was strong and overcome with the force.

[alpenwasser]

Yes there is a difference, this tech will not only get GPS lock it will also transmit your location to a server somewhere. Sat-Nav doesn't do that last part.

Car manufacturers are already tracking their cars anyway

with current technology, at least some of them for some

of their cars.

If you have a manufacturer GPS in your car, I would always

operate under the assumption that you're being tracked and

your routes being stored on your car manufacturer's servers

somewhere.

I'm not 100% sure how they actually transmit the data back

to them though, if anyone has any insight into that I'd

be curious about that. Or if they don't trasmit at all but

just download your routes when you have your car in the

garage?

Either way, your privacy in this regard is alreayd seriously

compromised if you have a new-ish car as far as I can tell.

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Technology/2014/01/07/Automakers-tracking-drivers-GPS-data/UPI-23881389122612/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/7/no-privacy-behind-the-wheel-your-car-might-be-spyi/?page=all

[Askew]

operate under the assumption that you're being tracked and

your routes being stored on your car manufacturer's servers

somewhere.

I'm not 100% sure how they actually transmit the data back

to them though, if anyone has any insight into that I'd

be curious about that. Or if they don't trasmit at all but

just download your routes when you have your car in the

garage?

 

I agree with that statement.

 

I believe the 3G mobile network is used when on the move, but it would be possible to perform some kind of 'journey sync' when you get to either a home wi-fi situation, or a place with good 3G reception.

 

If you'd previously been in an area with GPS coverage but no 3G the journey could be 'patched' once internet connectivity resumed or synced later from a digital recording of the entire journey.

[Nineshadow]

inb4 NSA gets access to these servers.

[alpenwasser]

I agree with that statement.

 

I believe the 3G mobile network is used when on the move, but it would be possible to perform some kind of 'journey sync' when you get to either a home wi-fi situation, or a place with good 3G reception.

 

If you'd previously been in an area with GPS coverage but no 3G the journey could be 'patched' once internet connectivity resumed or synced from a digital recording of the entire journet.

Yeah, 3G would be my guess as well. It's not like GPS and car

manufacturers couldn't have contracts with mobile service

providers to allow them to do that.

But the whole thing seems very cloak-and-dagger to me at

the moment, I have not been able to find anything concrete

on it so far.

[Askew]

Yeah, 3G would be my guess as well. It's not like GPS and car

manufacturers couldn't have contracts with mobile service

providers to allow them to do that.

But the whole thing seems very cloak-and-dagger to me at

the moment, I have not been able to find anything concrete

on it so far.

 

It is very cloak and dagger, having a 3G capable GPS receiver in a vehicle definitely means that you can be tracked in real time/polled every 30secs or whatever amount of time. the only question is how the technology is used and how it's activation system works.

 

For me I would accept such a device if it could under no circumstance be remotely activated, and would remain dormant within the vehicle until activation in the event of necessity such as airbag deployment/collision detection, or some kind of panic button for the driver to use in the event of a non collision emergency.

 

If it's on all the time, I see no reasons for that to be necessary, but I see several opportunites for abuse.

 

Data obtained by remote activation would need to have similar laws applied to it as those that cover evidence obtained by break and enter theft for example.

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

A good example of how the system could be used well arose just yesterday night opposite my house.

My opposing neighbor left his work vehicle out in the street, in the middle of the night somebody drove into it and the impact pushed his vehicle back several metres and has crumpled the nearside front of it (it's a Renault van)

The vehicle responsible drove away (illegally of course, presumably drunk and scared of being banned by the police from driving if he stayed).

 

With an e-call system, it would have been activated by the collision detection system (a solid piece of other vehicle's wing/bumper had broken off into the street along with light fitments ect) and the vital pieces of information for identifying the car would have been collected.

 

The location and time of impact would have been recorded, you then have the responsible vehicle's info, and some evidence toward proving responsibility in a little packet sitting on a server somewhere without any kind of privacy breach or spying behaviours IMHO.

 

If it worked as above then my neighbor would now at least have registered keeper to question rather than no lead whatsoever and a wrecked vehicle.

[Fetzie]

Nice sensationalist title, btw.

[Jobobee]

Nice sensationalist title, btw.

Well, it's pretty much what is happening.