Ryzen 7000X3d is burning out.

[Bitter]

4 hours ago, Arokhantos said:

Can we talk now about big brands etc trying to chicken out warranty any chance they can get even small user damage that can easily be repaired for small fee which totally reasonable ?

 

Damn i really miss EVGA, please make GPU's again even AMD gpu's and Intel GPU's

 

Its seriously frustrating you cant even do maintenance on your card while they try get away with stuff like this.

This thread is about CPU's, not GPU's.

[starsmine]

For the time being, it sounds like asus is on the unrecommended list for motherboards for this chipset.

Was hoping a new bios that isnt beta would be out by the time I came back from my summer trip. but nope. they just put out a new beta bios.

[jos]

1 hour ago, starsmine said:

For the time being, it sounds like asus is on the unrecommended list for motherboards for this chipset.

Was hoping a new bios that isnt beta would be out by the time I came back from my summer trip. but nope. they just put out a new beta bios.

I always thought Asus as a reputable brand. I think I was wrong. Who else should we consider?

[starsmine]

2 minutes ago, jos said:

I always thought Asus as a reputable brand. I think I was wrong. Who else should we consider?

Generally, they are a reputable brand, different departments have different people running them at different times, at all companies. 
Whoever you want to consider instead for this chipset set I suppose. Asrock/MSI/Gigabyte whoever else im forgetting. 
 

[Quackers101]

1 hour ago, jos said:

I always thought Asus as a reputable brand. I think I was wrong. Who else should we consider?

never go top end or lowest end, but low enough might have decent options, sometimes there is a middle ground. but hardware kind of sucks, and as stated there is many brand of motherboards that got their own issues, or doesn't do what they claim. Maybe some "in-depth" reviews "can help".

 

but man, asus shooting a double bullet on consumers... just waiting for a lawsuit.
"we didn't do anything wrong, but here have our fix that still doesn't solve the issue and now its YOUR FAULT!"

Also brands do like to do this at times, and you might see this from msi and others too, although how bad they get or what issue, is different.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Quackers101

[dogwitch]

all the mobo manf played fast and loss with the oc issue.

asus is a large enough brand and is really easy to target.

 

[starsmine]

57 minutes ago, dogwitch said:

all the mobo manf played fast and loss with the oc issue.

asus is a large enough brand and is really easy to target.

 

No other mobo manf was pushing the voltages like this.  Has nothing to do with asus being large, the other brands are large as well. 

[ravenshrike]

2 hours ago, starsmine said:

No other mobo manf was pushing the voltages like this.  Has nothing to do with asus being large, the other brands are large as well. 

Biostar was, but they apparently don't also have all the other issues that ASUS does, so the setting was comparatively stable. It's unlikely any damage to the CPU on a Biostar board would result in physical deformation and it's entirely possible that it wouldn't reduce the life of the CPU to below 5 years unless really unlucky. Or they could just end up dying in 2 years. No way to tell without long term testing.

[Uttamattamakin]

As a proud ASUS B550 Creator user and a user of a ASUS 3080 Turbo blower GPU ... I love what ASUS was doing "last generation".   Socket AM4 was matured and the bugs that only come out when products are in the wild were all worked out.  

Now we are talking about core components burning.   So bad that Jay will not work with them anymore. 

 

Life lesson: Take a cue from computer systems built to be reliable.  If you need a computer to work no matter what stick to products that have been out for a while. You know a CPU that has been out for a while, and a last generation motherboard what 100k people have used for a year or two won't do this. 

That said, if I was going to build a threadripper PC might as well go with an ASUS build.  Their Threadripper board is a BEAST (Pro WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI II ) and has no problems like this... and Threadripper would certainly be all anyone needs for the remainder of the 2020's.  For that matter even AM5's top end chips are more than good enough.  

That said.  what really sux is that they are skimping on support. 

 

[AnonymousGuy]

I'd like to see an answer why there's no thermal diodes baked into silicon that can shut this down.  A chip physically shouldn't be capable of melting itself regardless of how much power it takes.  Checking team Blue...there's currently 3 per core and 7 more between GT and SA  and THERMTRIP at 130C kills all power.

[dogwitch]

4 hours ago, starsmine said:

No other mobo manf was pushing the voltages like this.  Has nothing to do with asus being large, the other brands are large as well. 

pushing that hard. sure asus did do that.

but other boards manf were going over spec anyhow of amd guided lines thru.

we seen this with them doing that with intel boards awhile back also.

[ravenshrike]

1 minute ago, dogwitch said:

but other boards manf were going over spec anyhow of amd guided lines thru.

 

Overspec was over 1.35 at the time and 1.3 on the X3D chips now. None of them were overvolted to the point where it could cause damage even under the new recommended maximum.

[starsmine]

59 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

I'd like to see an answer why there's no thermal diodes baked into silicon that can shut this down.  A chip physically shouldn't be capable of melting itself regardless of how much power it takes.  Checking team Blue...there's currently 3 per core and 7 more between GT and SA  and THERMTRIP at 130C kills all power.

Who says there isnt? there just is not one at that specific spot. 

[dogwitch]

10 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

Overspec was over 1.35 at the time and 1.3 on the X3D chips now. None of them were overvolted to the point where it could cause damage even under the new recommended maximum.

yet a few where failing to.

my guess less allow boost times. that save their butts on thru.

compare to asus aggressive boost clocks in general on their boards.

[ravenshrike]

6 minutes ago, dogwitch said:

17 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

 

yet a few where failing to.

my guess less allow boost times. that save their butts on thru.

compare to asus aggressive boost clocks in general on their boards.

Gigabyte's failures were something else their boards were doing not related to the ASUS fuck ups. 

 

19 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Who says there isnt? there just is not one at that specific spot. 

More likely is that the ASUS fault path fuses off the kill signal path once it starts runaway before the sensors send the kill command.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, AnonymousGuy said:

I'd like to see an answer why there's no thermal diodes baked into silicon that can shut this down.  A chip physically shouldn't be capable of melting itself regardless of how much power it takes.  Checking team Blue...there's currently 3 per core and 7 more between GT and SA  and THERMTRIP at 130C kills all power.

Ryzen CPUs are filled with them, that's not the issue. Excessive voltage causes damage independent from temperature. As for the Gigabyte issue that was happening in pre-boot stage before any thermal protections could even activate.

 

It's like asking why a CPU cant protect itself from me wiring a 12v 120Ah car battery across it, some things you just can't stop. It's on motherboard makers to not let that happen, that part 100% is on Gigabyte.

[dogwitch]

22 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Ryzen CPUs are filled with them, that's not the issue. Excessive voltage causes damage independent from temperature. As for the Gigabyte issue that was happening in pre-boot stage before any thermal protections could even activate.

 

It's like asking why a CPU cant protect itself from me wiring a 12v 120Ah car battery across it, some things you just can't stop. It's on motherboard makers to not let that happen, that part 100% is on Gigabyte.

that am shock on at preboot phase!

[GoodBytes]

3 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

As a proud ASUS B550 Creator user and a user of a ASUS 3080 Turbo blower GPU ... I love what ASUS was doing "last generation".   Socket AM4 was matured and the bugs that only come out when products are in the wild were all worked out.  

You know there is a really good chance that the issue affects AM4 and even Intel boards... it just happened to not explode the CPU...

ASUS boost voltages carelessly to ensure the best memory compatibility. That is the main issue here. This is moist likely nothing new for ASUS, and probably allowed many people to randomly buy whatever RAM they see on the store shelves and "it just works" when they insert it. It just happens that AM5 really... really... doesn't like it, especially X3D variant.

 

3 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Life lesson: Take a cue from computer systems built to be reliable.  If you need a computer to work no matter what stick to products that have been out for a while. You know a CPU that has been out for a while, and a last generation motherboard what 100k people have used for a year or two won't do this. 

Sure, but also, newer board sometimes included fixes to issues.

 

3 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

That said.  what really sux is that they are skimping on support. 

ASUS US and Canada always, like really always had horrible support. I have hands experience in 2005 (yes), and stories I read online continued over the years and years to today. Beside the fact that the RMA process is an ordeal, even if you just got your board, they won't encourage you to return the board to the store. They'll encourage you to RMA through their process, and you'll end up with a "refurbished" board, which typically it is someone else board, complete with scratches everywhere on the PCB around screw holes, and dust included. ASUS doesn't clean other people boards. They just reflash the BIOS, run primarily tests, and send it, as it, dust and all, to someone else who needs one. This also ignores the multi-week wait time you'll endure.

 

So why people buy ASUS. Truthfully, for many years, ASUS BIOS were the best. Shocking! I know. But to be honest the bar was VERY low. MSI had a confusing interface, and confusing custom MSI only terminology for some options (they got better). Gigabyte BIOS had bugs left and right with their BIOS/UEFI. Not to mention sometimes even spelling mistakes that they never fixed. You had options that didn't apply, or even front facing ones, where it can freeze if you hit Delete key to many times to go to the BIOS, or it just freezes if you use the keyboard to navigate and go too fast (they also got better over the years). In fact, they all got better. ASUS just never moved.

 

ASUS wins in people minds, because they seem too often times better understand the market than the other manufactures. They know what to release, with what features that people care about. And often times offer the best price.

 

For example, to keep the scope small, for ITX boards: MSI has a loud fan, and only 5x USB Type-A port, and 1x Type-C, and bad BT and Wireless card. Also, it uses PCIe 4.0 only, and costs around the same price as ASUS. Not to mention it also doesn't have SPIDIF Optical out, and not great Ethernet controller. As for Gigabyte offering, Gigabyte is far more competitive, with PCIe 5.0 support (not for the M.2 slot though. ASUS has it on both) but also lack USB ports for some reasons, and they wanted to save a penny by not putting a "line in" audio plug, it's massive heatsink can cause clearance issue for your CPU cooler, AIO included. It's USB Type-C port is only 10Gbps.  And Gigabyte is very late to release their boards. The board is a bit cheaper than ASUS. But if you can afford an ITX system, you can afford the premium, and so most ITX builders, opt for ASUS.

 

So, you have a lot of value with ASUS in consumer eyes. Yea, PCIe 5.0 is far from being useful. SPDIF who uses that? Let alone "line in". But the fear of missing out kicks in, "What happens if I'll need it 2, 3, 4 years down the line", is what they can say.  And considering that all boards are around the same price, why not get the ASUS one? So, who can blame them.

 

And again, Gigabyte is also affected with the same problem as ASUS.

[AnonymousGuy]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Ryzen CPUs are filled with them, that's not the issue. Excessive voltage causes damage independent from temperature.

Buuuut it's clearly a massive thermal event here at what amounts to 0.1V difference between "melts" and "doesn't melt".

 

(no argument the bios shouldn't be doing stupid shit either but it's very 90s to have a cpu cooking itself)

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Buuuut it's clearly a massive thermal event here at what amounts to 0.1V difference between "melts" and "doesn't melt".

 

(no argument the bios shouldn't be doing stupid shit either but it's very 90s to have a cpu cooking itself)

That's after the too high voltage has caused damage and thus leakage which causes leakage which causes leakage.... I'm sure you get the point. Cause and effect problem, yes the CPUs melted to death but how is the key not so much that it happened. They did not fail from over heating.

[Kisai]

 

 

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

ASUS US and Canada always, like really always had horrible support. I have hands experience in 2005 (yes), and stories I read online continued over the years and years to today. Beside the fact that the RMA process is an ordeal, even if you just got your board, they won't encourage you to return the board to the store. They'll encourage you to RMA through their process, and you'll end up with a "refurbished" board, which typically it is someone else board, complete with scratches everywhere on the PCB around screw holes, and dust included. ASUS doesn't clean other people boards. They just reflash the BIOS, run primarily tests, and send it, as it, dust and all, to someone else who needs one. This also ignores the multi-week wait time you'll endure.

ASUS's RMA process is extremely poor. If you want something fixed or repaired under warranty you're basically have to send it to some place in Toronto, with it likely disappearing in the shipping process. They won't send you parts. They won't follow Dell's example where Dell sends you a replacement, you take the part you need and then return it, on Dell's dime. Or you get charged the price it would have cost to buy it new. Apple also follows this strategy.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

So why people buy ASUS. Truthfully, for many years, ASUS BIOS were the best. Shocking! I know. But to be honest the bar was VERY low. MSI had a confusing interface, and confusing custom MSI only terminology for some options (they got better). Gigabyte BIOS had bugs left and right with their BIOS/UEFI. Not to mention sometimes even spelling mistakes that they never fixed. You had options that didn't apply, or even front facing ones, where it can freeze if you hit Delete key to many times to go to the BIOS, or it just freezes if you use the keyboard to navigate and go too fast (they also got better over the years). In fact, they all got better. ASUS just never moved.

 

ASUS wins in people minds, because they seem too often times better understand the market than the other manufactures. They know what to release, with what features that people care about. And often times offer the best price.

 

ASUS has generally been the market lead on "build quality" since the 90's. ASRock was spun off of ASUS in 2002, so it's a bit debatable if one or the other is better than the other. Meanwhile MSI in the 90's was a huge joke, near bottom-of-the-barrel build quality. Gigabyte was somewhere in the middle.

 

But, ASUS has been accused of cheating benchmarks, and so has MSI. But MSI has done even worse underhanded things. As recent as 2020, even digging their heels in with selling to Russia.

 

 

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

So, you have a lot of value with ASUS in consumer eyes. Yea, PCIe 5.0 is far from being useful. SPDIF who uses that? Let alone "line in". But the fear of missing out kicks in, "What happens if I'll need it 2, 3, 4 years down the line", is what they can say.  And considering that all boards are around the same price, why not get the ASUS one? So, who can blame them.

 

And again, Gigabyte is also affected with the same problem as ASUS.

 

I feel at least recently, everyone has kinda dropped the ball since just before the pandemic, with missing obvious QA steps (see the Intel ethernet controller issues) that result in contagion of bad parts, bad software, bad drivers, all over the place. And we might see resolutions to these issues and have to wait for new generations of hardware to come down the pipe. Which is too bad, I was pretty sold on getting a AM5 system, but stuff like this just makes me want to reconsider and go buy a dell because I know at least Dell will be less of pain to RMA broken things to.

 

[thewelshbrummie]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

They know what to release, with what features that people care about. And often times offer the best price.

When I built my PC 2 years ago I got an Asus ROG Z490-G with wifi - because it was basically the only mATX board on the market that had the features I needed (wifi and 6x sata). MSI came closest but was short on Sata ports. And even Asus then didn't follow up with a Z590 equivalent, while also making my board EOL as 11th gen launched.

 

It's a big issue if you're looking for an alternative and no OEM is making it - something that Asus tends to be good at doing.

 

The key thing is that quality isn't a consistent measure - Asus boards aren't always going to be amazing, same for Samsung SSDs. Antec cases were top draw in the late 2000s but I wouldn't buy one today. Gigabyte boards are apparently decent again but I haven't bought one since 2012 after they included a gimmicky 3D BIOS mode that was terrible to navigate.

 

It's a case of never assuming that a company will always produce amazing products and keeping an eye on reports like poor RMA service and questionable QA testing (eg the backwards capacitor).

[Uttamattamakin]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

You know there is a really good chance that the issue affects AM4 and even Intel boards... it just happened to not explode the CPU...

ASUS boost voltages carelessly to ensure the best memory compatibility. That is the main issue here. This is moist likely nothing new for ASUS, and probably allowed many people to randomly buy whatever RAM they see on the store shelves and "it just works" when they insert it. It just happens that AM5 really... really... doesn't like it, especially X3D variant.

 

I have no doubt some variation of this could be an issue but wouldn't it have show up by now?  Closest I could find to this was by googling Ryzen 5950x overvoltage.  I tried that set of words since some flaw in what ASUS was doing that would cause overvoltage on last generation could maybe cause fire on a higher powered new generation of CPU. (Found a form posting on another forum about that)

Maybe it's something someone with an electronics testing lab could look for.  That perhaps this 

 

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

 

Sure, but also, newer board sometimes included fixes to issues.

True

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

 

ASUS US and Canada always, like really always had horrible support. I have hands experience in 2005 (yes), and stories .......

RMA's I can't think of an RMA that was ever a fun experience.  It always seems to take the longest possible time.  Always seems to be like they hope to make it so awful that you'll just give up. 

With all else you said being true what can use normal consumers do?  Buying older parts whose issues are known and kinks worked out is no guarantee, buying the newest latest greatest means buying the newest bugs.  It really sounds like the electronics industry just wants us to treat them as disposable.   "Oh your 500 dollar premium motherboard burned up, destroyed a 1500 dollar GPU and other parts ... just get a new one. 

[Guspa]

Wanted to check bios / drivers update for my ROG laptop...
Found out Asus completely disabled "Support" tab from the whole website on every single product.
Using an old known URL just redirects me back to the product detail...

Something tells me that "heads will roll", because this looks like a pretty "nuclear damage-control move".

[Needfuldoer]

The support pages for two ASUS motherboards I happen to own are still up, but they're x99 and AM4 so that may be the difference.

 

https://www.asus.com/us/commercial-servers-workstations/x99wsipmi/helpdesk/

https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-b550-i-gaming-model/helpdesk_download/