Keeping your memory, would you go back 10 years?

[Neroon]

I'm way behind on WAN Shows, and just listened to this discussion and found it extremely interesting.

 

Luke said he would, because he would min-max his life. I think it would mostly be horrible and it wouldn't lead to min-max.

 

First of all we have the Butterfly Effect. This is the concept that even a butterfly can have huge impact on life. So for example, you get out of the house, and you see a butterfly, you pause to look at it for a few seconds, before you get in your car. You get on the road and instead of just getting in front of a slow moving vehicle, you get behind it. You get to the highway, but because you got there later, the whole positioning on the highway changes, which in turn can have a big impact. Maybe a car crash happens that otherwise would've have happened as well, but now you are part of it, whereas if there had been no butterfly, you would have been in front of it. Instead of being on time for your date, you get stuck, and you don't meet your possible future partner because they left because they didn't hear from you, because you were busy filling in forms. But maybe that's a good thing, because instead of dating that person for a few months, you meet up with someone else who is the one.

You get the picture, so even the tiniest change in life, like looking at a butterfly, can completely change your life. So Luke may think he is min maxing, and sure he can get all the money through bitcoin, his life could get much worse except for his finances.

 

For me the biggest thing would be is to live with these changes. Say you get rich from that money, and you buy your parents like a Tesla, you figure they should get something nice, you already know EV is the future, so you buy one. What if they get in a fatal car accident. Because maybe they start driving more, but also that car moves around much quicker. Now if you were to give one to your parents and they get in an fatal accident that was caused due to say acceleration, you would already feel bad about it most likely, but now you know that because you went back in time, changed things, they are now dead.

 

And then the last one would be taking care of the people around you. I don't know about you guys, but I know people who have committed suicide, most of it through my job, but also people somewhat closer to me (luckily no one really close), like a good friend of my sister, a 16 year old girl who lives close to me etc. What would that do to my life? I would not want that to happen again, so what would that do to my life? As a professional I know that people who end up committing suicide, are likely to do it no matter what you do, and even if you can prevent it, it likely will not mean they have a happy life. To be clear, this is not an absolute, not at all, just saying it's really tough. So if I wanted to save those lives, that would take over my life.

 

I just can't imagine that going back would end up being good for me. Also none of this is even looking at who you are as a person now vs then. I'm sure Luke is not the same person now, as he was back then, just like any of us, so how would that work with the others? Also knowing other peoples fuck ups, would you react the same, or try to prevent them? How would that go? What would happen to those relationships?

 

I feel that unless you are deeply unsatisfied about your life now, and by going back you can make a real change that has a real positive impact on life (and honestly, bitcoin money is probably not gonna be a positive change - billionaires are pretty much all assholes), I just don't think you should do it.

 

So here would do it anyway?

[mononymous]

36 minutes ago, Neroon said:

I'm way behind on WAN Shows, and just listened to this discussion and found it extremely interesting.

 

Luke said he would, because he would min-max his life. I think it would mostly be horrible and it wouldn't lead to min-max.

 

First of all we have the Butterfly Effect. This is the concept that even a butterfly can have huge impact on life. So for example, you get out of the house, and you see a butterfly, you pause to look at it for a few seconds, before you get in your car. You get on the road and instead of just getting in front of a slow moving vehicle, you get behind it. You get to the highway, but because you got there later, the whole positioning on the highway changes, which in turn can have a big impact. Maybe a car crash happens that otherwise would've have happened as well, but now you are part of it, whereas if there had been no butterfly, you would have been in front of it. Instead of being on time for your date, you get stuck, and you don't meet your possible future partner because they left because they didn't hear from you, because you were busy filling in forms. But maybe that's a good thing, because instead of dating that person for a few months, you meet up with someone else who is the one.

You get the picture, so even the tiniest change in life, like looking at a butterfly, can completely change your life. So Luke may think he is min maxing, and sure he can get all the money through bitcoin, his life could get much worse except for his finances.

 

For me the biggest thing would be is to live with these changes. Say you get rich from that money, and you buy your parents like a Tesla, you figure they should get something nice, you already know EV is the future, so you buy one. What if they get in a fatal car accident. Because maybe they start driving more, but also that car moves around much quicker. Now if you were to give one to your parents and they get in an fatal accident that was caused due to say acceleration, you would already feel bad about it most likely, but now you know that because you went back in time, changed things, they are now dead.

 

And then the last one would be taking care of the people around you. I don't know about you guys, but I know people who have committed suicide, most of it through my job, but also people somewhat closer to me (luckily no one really close), like a good friend of my sister, a 16 year old girl who lives close to me etc. What would that do to my life? I would not want that to happen again, so what would that do to my life? As a professional I know that people who end up committing suicide, are likely to do it no matter what you do, and even if you can prevent it, it likely will not mean they have a happy life. To be clear, this is not an absolute, not at all, just saying it's really tough. So if I wanted to save those lives, that would take over my life.

 

I just can't imagine that going back would end up being good for me. Also none of this is even looking at who you are as a person now vs then. I'm sure Luke is not the same person now, as he was back then, just like any of us, so how would that work with the others? Also knowing other peoples fuck ups, would you react the same, or try to prevent them? How would that go? What would happen to those relationships?

 

I feel that unless you are deeply unsatisfied about your life now, and by going back you can make a real change that has a real positive impact on life (and honestly, bitcoin money is probably not gonna be a positive change - billionaires are pretty much all assholes), I just don't think you should do it.

 

So here would do it anyway?

At the end of the day the butterfly effect is a theory, I'll take my chances. 

[Mojo-Jojo]

10 minutes ago, mononymous said:

At the end of the day the butterfly effect is a theory, I'll take my chances. 

Gravity is only a theory too.

 

To answer OP: Even though I shouldhave done things differently in hindsight, I wouldn't want to actually do things differently.

 

I spent a lot of time/money wasting my time with the wrong crowd, not going to college/studying while I was paying for tuition. Spent some time mentally unstable because of wrong choices I made, lost friends, upset family.

 

But I turned my life around, graduated, and now have a steady job and good income, good relationship with my family, a partner and two happy kids.

I'm good where I am, and going back and doing things differently might just make things turn out worse, even with the knowledge I have now.

 

So I'd probably pass on the opportunity.

[duncannah]

I would still risk it, life is full of risks anyway. More things I regret than not

[mononymous]

5 minutes ago, Mojo-Jojo said:

Gravity is only a theory too.

True. It's also my laziness in trying to understand how scientists proved the butterfly effect using quantum chips. 

[Arika]

no. i don't want to go through 2020-2022 again.

[Levent]

Yes.

[Sauron]

These are just the usual concerns with the concept of time travel, nothing new. I probably wouldn't take the chance of literally going back in time knowing everything about the "future" I know now, but I might take an offer to be 15 again with the practical knowledge I have now. Not knowlege of future event but skills.

[Holmes108]

Even if I new for a fact I could go back and not break anything or make it any worse, I don't have the mental endurance to go through it all again... the grind of going to work etc, lol.

 

I don't have a miserable life, and like my job relatively well. But it's not like I'm passionate about my career and LOVE going in every day. I have a couple of mistakes I'd love to fix, but it sounds awful personally.

[WildDagwood]

The main reason for someone to go back would be to avoid a traumatic experience, imo. As you noted, just going back to try and min-max might not work out in your favour, but I'm sure many would take the risk.

 

I think the weirdest part would be separating your old memories from the current reality at times.

[Bombastinator]

Hell yes.

[Bombastinator]

26 minutes ago, WildDagwood said:

The main reason for someone to go back would be to avoid a traumatic experience, imo. As you noted, just going back to try and min-max might not work out in your favour, but I'm sure many would take the risk.

 

I think the weirdest part would be separating your old memories from the current reality at times.

Or behavior that in retrospect was extremely stupid.  The only reason NOT to do it was if something extremely lucky happened.

[Montana One-Six]

The thing about the butterfly effect you described is that it is essentially a fabrication of pop culture. The original butterfly effect was used by a meteorologist to describe his research in weather prediction and has nothing to do with time traveling and things like that.  

 

Anyway I would try why not who knows could be pretty fun being Bitcoin billionaire .

[Holmes108]

1 hour ago, Montana One-Six said:

The thing about the butterfly effect you described is that it is essentially a fabrication of pop culture. The original butterfly effect was used by a meteorologist to describe his research in weather prediction and has nothing to do with time traveling and things like that.  

 

 

 

Well yeah, I mean I'm skeptical about a butterfly causing a hurricane, or whatever. But I don't think it takes a great deal of imagination (or logic) to see the obvious consequences of cause and effect. I wouldn't be overly worried about causing our extinction, if I travelled back. But I'd be very worried about messing up my own life (missing that job opportunity, meeting that relationship, etc).

 

Quote

Anyway I would try why not who knows could be pretty fun being Bitcoin billionaire .

 

I said earlier that I wouldn't do it, just due to the sheer grind of reliving all those days over again. But if there are no rules about cheating the system, and I could become rich, I think I'd most certainly do it lol. 10 years works though, because my daughter is 11. I wouldn't go further than that for anything though.

[Heliian]

The hot tub time machine sequel covers these points. 

[Neroon]

6 hours ago, Montana One-Six said:

The thing about the butterfly effect you described is that it is essentially a fabrication of pop culture. The original butterfly effect was used by a meteorologist to describe his research in weather prediction and has nothing to do with time traveling and things like that.  

 

Anyway I would try why not who knows could be pretty fun being Bitcoin billionaire .

Pop culture or not, the fact is that if we could go back with all our knowledge, this would 100% happen. Every tiny choice you and everyone else makes, decides how things will go. It's impossible to not change anything at all, it simply is not possible. Even if you were to try your hardest to follow your memory, you will change things. 

And if you were to invest your money in bitcoin, you are already changing big things, because it would change your spending before you were to sell off, and it would change your spending after you sell off. You could also become the one who destroys bitcoin and crypto altogether. Because you would have such crazy amounts of bitcoin, that the second it hits like 65k, you would crash the whole coin.

So yes, you would change a lot in the world, not just small things.

[thrasher_565]

sounds like quantum mechanics... same idea thow when there an observer the outcome is different. but then if a tree falls and no one hears it did it make a sound...

[RuffRuffmcgruff]

Probably not, although I could use the knowledge I have now to make a lot of money, IE bitcoin, lottery etc. I'm pretty happy with my life, so I wouldn't really want to risk that by changing anything in my past

[Montana One-Six]

14 hours ago, Neroon said:

Pop culture or not, the fact is that if we could go back with all our knowledge, this would 100% happen. Every tiny choice you and everyone else makes, decides how things will go. It's impossible to not change anything at all, it simply is not possible. Even if you were to try your hardest to follow your memory, you will change things. 

And if you were to invest your money in bitcoin, you are already changing big things, because it would change your spending before you were to sell off, and it would change your spending after you sell off. You could also become the one who destroys bitcoin and crypto altogether. Because you would have such crazy amounts of bitcoin, that the second it hits like 65k, you would crash the whole coin.

So yes, you would change a lot in the world, not just small things.

Fact is we don't know. There are a lot of theories about time travel but the reality is that backwards time travel is highly unlikely.

 

You say if you would go back and do things it will have unforeseeable consequences. Which is why there is the theory of the Grandfather paradox. Which essentially says that if you were able to travel back in time it would be physically impossible for you to do any changes because otherwise you would create a consistency paradox and since time itself is self consistent you would go against the laws of physics. 

[Holmes108]

31 minutes ago, Montana One-Six said:

Fact is we don't know. There are a lot of theories about time travel but the reality is that backwards time travel is highly unlikely.

 

You say if you would go back and do things it will have unforeseeable consequences. Which is why there is the theory of the Grandfather paradox. Which essentially says that if you were able to travel back in time it would be physically impossible for you to do any changes because otherwise you would create a consistency paradox and since time itself is self consistent you would go against the laws of physics. 

 

Sure, but I think the most likely outcomes of it being impossible (ie the solutions to the grandfather paradox) means either:

 

1: It's simply impossible to go backwards (Useless for this thought experiment)

2: Multiverse? So when you change something, you're just in a different timeline. 

 

So with number 2, while you might not have technically changed this timeline, you've still changed the timeline that you now have to live in. 

 

We're getting into some fun sci fi shit now!

 

Edit: I guess option 3 is that every time you change something, it still finds a way to happen. In other words, I stop bob from getting hit by a bus, but then 5 minutes later he gets electrocuted. That's another way to stop things from happening. This option seems highly unlikely to me personally though. But who knows.

[Neroon]

19 hours ago, Montana One-Six said:

Fact is we don't know. There are a lot of theories about time travel but the reality is that backwards time travel is highly unlikely.

 

You say if you would go back and do things it will have unforeseeable consequences. Which is why there is the theory of the Grandfather paradox. Which essentially says that if you were able to travel back in time it would be physically impossible for you to do any changes because otherwise you would create a consistency paradox and since time itself is self consistent you would go against the laws of physics. 

Ok I'm not arguing how time travel would work if it was possible.

The question here, was if you could go back and keep your memory, would you? That leaves 2 options.

1. You're looking through your own eyes but can't do anything, because you wouldn't be allowed to change anything. So getting tons of bitcoin would not be possible.

2. You can change things, and whether it changes history or creates a new universe, you end up changing your life and everything in it.

 

1 would be effectively a memory machine, 2 would be the case that the question is really about going back with your memories and would change anything. The answer is always, yes you would change things, because you changed as a person.

[TetraSky]

10 years ago, I didn't have the money to invest in bitcoin in the first place... Plus I'd be losing all my stupid diplomas I had to study for, meaning I would not be able to have a high paying job. But, if I'm given some time before being sent back 10 years, I would take my time memorizing the winning numbers for the lottery on a specific day 9 years prior (to ensure there's plenty of time in between. Wouldn't want to risk it having already happened)

[Vishera]

I would do that without a doubt, i have too many regrets to fix -_-

[Alcarin]

Probably...

 

I'd go back and tell myself to finish my degree, instead of wimping out due to a personal and family crisis (happened simultaneously, I could not handle them both). 

 

But that being said, I likely wouldn't have met my wonderful GF and embarked upon this strangely quaint and wonderful life journey I'm on. I live (mostly) carefree, with very little debt outside of some outstanding student debt (less than $25K) and have an okay income (around $49K). That family crisis and some self-reflection and introspection afterward had caused me to rethink my life and take a new trajectory, so I decided not to return to school to finish that degree. I instead pursued IT certifications.

 

But I look back and wonder how many missed opportunities I've have had with that.

 

So if I had the chance to go back 10 years, I'd have told myself to suck it up and deal with the crises when they'd come. Also to put $1K into ETH 

[Montana One-Six]

On 3/30/2023 at 3:21 PM, Holmes108 said:

Sure, but I think the most likely outcomes of it being impossible (ie the solutions to the grandfather paradox) means either:

 

1: It's simply impossible to go backwards (Useless for this thought experiment)

2: Multiverse? So when you change something, you're just in a different timeline. 

 

So with number 2, while you might not have technically changed this timeline, you've still changed the timeline that you now have to live in. 

 

We're getting into some fun sci fi shit now!

 

Edit: I guess option 3 is that every time you change something, it still finds a way to happen. In other words, I stop bob from getting hit by a bus, but then 5 minutes later he gets electrocuted. That's another way to stop things from happening. This option seems highly unlikely to me personally though. But who knows.

So the dude who came up with the grandfather paradox said if it were possible to go back in time and you would do that there would be a force like gravity that will prevent you from doing any changes. So you are practically in a movie you can watch the past unfold before your own eyes but are unable to do any thing to prevent or change things.

 

Yes the multiverse which is called MWI (mutli world interpretation) is another explanation to the whole time consistency issue. There are a few different theories regarding this which often rely on each other. I think it makes sense that you would never be able to go to your own past and always go to an alternate timeline in which you could change things but these will never influence your own life.

Some scientist have the theory that these different timelines aren't necessarily part of earth or some alternate earth but part of the person. Which means if you were to travel in time you would still be in your own timeline and wouldn't change anything in that timeline.

 

Yes it is truly fascinating stuff.

 

5 hours ago, Neroon said:

Ok I'm not arguing how time travel would work if it was possible.

The question here, was if you could go back and keep your memory, would you? That leaves 2 options.

1. You're looking through your own eyes but can't do anything, because you wouldn't be allowed to change anything. So getting tons of bitcoin would not be possible.

2. You can change things, and whether it changes history or creates a new universe, you end up changing your life and everything in it.

 

1 would be effectively a memory machine, 2 would be the case that the question is really about going back with your memories and would change anything. The answer is always, yes you would change things, because you changed as a person.

Your post is clearly just a thought experiment that doesn't take into account any limitations that might exist except the fictional "butterfly effect". Which to me was kinda silly in the first place so I jokingly said why not lets be a bitcoin billionaire because there is no way of actually taking into account all possible outcomes. And since it is my own thought experiment the outcome is not much different from right now except that I have a shitton of Bitcoin.