No Breaks(UPS) for a 850w PSU (Seasonic FOCUS GM)

[Pedro Henrique]

Hey everyone,

 

I've done some research and searching on my own and either found UPS that didn't not match the specs or were enterprise grade and thus super expensive, so i came here looking for suggestions you guys may have. Also found some content about how interative No Breaks (UPS) don't get along very well with some PSUs (more specifically the ones with APFC) and i'm not sure whether if that would affect my Seasonic FOCUS GM (PN SSR-850FM).

 

The goal is that during power outages or instabilities i get enough time to save any files/games and turn off my devices and that during regular power situations using my computer remains unaffected and safe.

 

My GPU is: GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER GAMING X 

My CPU is: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 XT

(I know a 850FM was probably overkill, i got it bc it was cheaper than lower wattages)

 

Your help will be greatly appreciated, thank you in advance.

[NobleGamer]

Once you figure out the max power draw at the outlet (less efficient than what your parts actually use) for your system, you need to make sure the watt rating of the UPS is higher than that. VA indicates the battery capacity - See some online calculator for how long it might last.

 

43 minutes ago, Pedro Henrique said:

Also found some content about how interative No Breaks (UPS) don't get along very well with some PSUs (more specifically the ones with APFC) and i'm not sure whether if that would affect my Seasonic FOCUS GM (PN SSR-850FM).

I don't think there is such a thing as a UPS being "incompatable" with a PSU. What you do have to look out for is:

• Watt rating of UPS is greater than your max power draw at the outlet
• VA battery capacity versus whatever your usage would be in a no-power situation
• The response time (or whatever it's called) for the UPS to give power when the power shuts off
• The amount of time a PSU can go without power before it shuts down (If this is shorter than the UPS's response time, then PSU just won't get power in time and will shut down

[Pedro Henrique]

12 hours ago, NobleGamer said:

Once you figure out the max power draw at the outlet (less efficient than what your parts actually use) for your system, you need to make sure the watt rating of the UPS is higher than that. VA indicates the battery capacity - See some online calculator for how long it might last.

Regarding max power draw at outlet, considering the PSU is 80Plus Gold and it is capable of delivering 850 Watts does that not mean it consumes somewhere around 1062.5VA when connected directly to the outlet (minimum of 80% efficiency)? I don't have a way of measuring it. Most consumer grade UPS i could find were 1200VA or 1500VA with a power factor of 0.5, so 600W or 750W respectively. So i'm looking for suggestions of UPS capable of delivering 850W, that is the most i will ever need with my current PSU. I might want to connect my monitor but it would only consume 16W from what i checked.

 

12 hours ago, NobleGamer said:

I don't think there is such a thing as a UPS being "incompatable" with a PSU. What you do have to look out for is:

• Watt rating of UPS is greater than your max power draw at the outlet
• VA battery capacity versus whatever your usage would be in a no-power situation
• The response time (or whatever it's called) for the UPS to give power when the power shuts off
• The amount of time a PSU can go without power before it shuts down (If this is shorter than the UPS's response time, then PSU just won't get power in time and will shut down

 

Well the seller themselves gave the information about the "incompatibility" but i can see it not being a common thing since only one seller mentioned that about their UPS.

 

The response time is something i did not consider, thank you! I will make sure to check both response time, and time without power, before buying an UPS.

[Poinkachu]

41 minutes ago, Pedro Henrique said:

Regarding max power draw at outlet, considering the PSU is 80Plus Gold and it is capable of delivering 850 Watts does that not mean it consumes somewhere around 1062.5VA when connected directly to the outlet (minimum of 80% efficiency)? I don't have a way of measuring it. Most consumer grade UPS i could find were 1200VA or 1500VA with a power factor of 0.5, so 600W or 750W respectively. So i'm looking for suggestions of UPS capable of delivering 850W, that is the most i will ever need with my current PSU. I might want to connect my monitor but it would only consume 16W from what i checked.

You count your usage, not your PSU max wattage.
Use a power meter or something when you are gaming.

https://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-Brighter-Consumption-Electricity-Protection/dp/B08DG5YSTD/ref=sr_1_6?crid=Y88V1OIFO7A7&keywords=power+meter&qid=1678208869&sprefix=power+meter%2Caps%2C710&sr=8-6

 

Something like that ^, cheap and useful to keep around.
Just don't use it all the time, IMHO, they are not designed for high full time use.

Plug it into your wall socket, plug your PSU power cord into the meter, set the meter to display Wattage (MAX).

Run PC, game and watch how much watt you use max for like 2-3min, it will change a lot, either take average or take the highest result.

Unplug power meter after.

IMHO, Find UPS that can give you as much wattage at the very least 1.5 times your usage.

Preferably more, so you will change battery less often, and have more leeway when trying to shutdown safely.

 

And no, your CPU + GPU doesn't use 850w when gaming, even if you overclock them to the brim of burning.

 

Running on stock config:

GPU is 135-140w at most

CPU is like ... 95w

And not like they will run at that much power all the time when gaming.

 

PSU max wattage only means that the PSU is capable of delivering power up to that much, doesn't mean it will suck 850w worth of electricity all the time.

If it does, your electricity bill would soar high even when all you do is looking at BIOS screen.

If your system only needs 300w, then your PSU will suck the apropriate amount of AC electricity based on it's efficiency rating for 300w from the wall, convert it to DC, then deliver those 300w to your PC parts that asked for it.

41 minutes ago, Pedro Henrique said:

Well the seller themselves gave the information about the "incompatibility" but i can see it not being a common thing since only one seller mentioned that about their UPS.

 

The response time is something i did not consider, thank you! I will make sure to check both response time, and time without power, before buying an UPS.

IIRC it's an old problem,

Nowadays PC should be fine, well atleast if the PSU is good enough. CMIIW

 

But yea, I'm not a pro or something, just that I use a cheap basically south east asia only brand Line-Interactive UPS, and my 2 PCs are fine.

So does my friends with their cheap PSUs (Imagine a silvery color metal box with black & yellow cables)

 

Maybe @manikyath can give insight ?

[manikyath]

25 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

Maybe @manikyath can give insight ?

my 'rule of thumb' is this:

- run everything you want to run off the UPS at full tilt, note the wattage (use one of those power plug wattmeters if you must, they cost like 15 bucks..)

- double that wattage (because ideally you dont go past 50% for battery lifetime reasons.)

- find a decent UPS that as a WATTS rating (not the VA rating) that's close to or above that double wattage.

 

about the watts / VA thing: UPS'es assume that what you wire up to them will have a horrid power factor, which means they can delver more volt-amps than they can deliver watts. and because VA is the bigger number, that's what is on the box. but down in the spec sheet they should state how many watts it can deliver. if it doesnt, ignore the product anyways.

 

beyond that.. i generally avoid units that have a single 12V battery for running 'actual load' (they do great for stuff like network equipment), because they just get beat up too hard to get decent lifetime out of them. just a handful of power cuts will ruin the battery.

 

as for an actual brand recommendation, all of my stuff is APC back-ups, and my only complaint is that replacing the batteries isnt quite as streamlined as one would prefer (the 1400VA units basicly need to be dismantled with some force..)

they're all stepped approximation sine wave, which isnt ideal.. but other than making my power supplies a bit screamy it hasnt been an issue.

[Pedro Henrique]

5 hours ago, Poinkachu said:

You count your usage, not your PSU max wattage.
Use a power meter or something when you are gaming.

https://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-Brighter-Consumption-Electricity-Protection/dp/B08DG5YSTD/ref=sr_1_6?crid=Y88V1OIFO7A7&keywords=power+meter&qid=1678208869&sprefix=power+meter%2Caps%2C710&sr=8-6

 

Something like that ^, cheap and useful to keep around.
Just don't use it all the time, IMHO, they are not designed for high full time use.

Plug it into your wall socket, plug your PSU power cord into the meter, set the meter to display Wattage (MAX).

Run PC, game and watch how much watt you use max for like 2-3min, it will change a lot, either take average or take the highest result.

Unplug power meter after.

IMHO, Find UPS that can give you as much wattage at the very least 1.5 times your usage.

Preferably more, so you will change battery less often, and have more leeway when trying to shutdown safely.

Your signature was not lying hahaha, i almost replied before seeing your edit earlier. I found an equivalent device here, should be arriving tomorrow so i can run some proper testing.

 

5 hours ago, Poinkachu said:

 

And no, your CPU + GPU doesn't use 850w when gaming, even if you overclock them to the brim of burning.

 

Running on stock config:

GPU is 135-140w at most

CPU is like ... 95w

And not like they will run at that much power all the time when gaming.

 

 

PSU max wattage only means that the PSU is capable of delivering power up to that much, doesn't mean it will suck 850w worth of electricity all the time.

If it does, your electricity bill would soar high even when all you do is looking at BIOS screen.

If your system only needs 300w, then your PSU will suck the apropriate amount of AC electricity based on it's efficiency rating for 300w from the wall, convert it to DC, then deliver those 300w to your PC parts that asked for it.

Yeah, i'm aware. My reasoning was that if my PSU is capable of providing 850W,  an UPS designed for 850W would guarantee to solve my issue. I do plan on getting in the future (albeit not anytime soon) a much better graphic card and processor, which is why i wanted to get more than i would need right now, and now i realize that even if i upgrade to an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D (105W) and an Nvidia Geforce RTX 3080 (400W), that would be an estimated 505W, which is still less than 850W so i definitely understand your point now. I'm curious to see what my current setup is actually consuming once the power meter arrives.

 

5 hours ago, Poinkachu said:

IIRC it's an old problem,

Nowadays PC should be fine, well atleast if the PSU is good enough. CMIIW

 

But yea, I'm not a pro or something, just that I use a cheap basically south east asia only brand Line-Interactive UPS, and my 2 PCs are fine.

So does my friends with their cheap PSUs (Imagine a silvery color metal box with black & yellow cables)

My understanding from my superficial search was that the digital controller from the UPS would "fight" the digital controller from the PSU, each trying to keep the electric circuit aligned to it's own parameters. But honestly i have no clue if that is the actual reason. I can see that, specially considering if going back a couple decades PSUs were missing improvements that we have today and still people used them.

 

5 hours ago, manikyath said:

my 'rule of thumb' is this:

- run everything you want to run off the UPS at full tilt, note the wattage (use one of those power plug wattmeters if you must, they cost like 15 bucks..)

- double that wattage (because ideally you dont go past 50% for battery lifetime reasons.)

- find a decent UPS that as a WATTS rating (not the VA rating) that's close to or above that double wattage.

Sounds like a good rule of thumb. In my previous search i did encounter many sellers who don't even mention a Watts rating, i was completely ignoring those, so good to hear i did right.

5 hours ago, manikyath said:

 

about the watts / VA thing: UPS'es assume that what you wire up to them will have a horrid power factor, which means they can delver more volt-amps than they can deliver watts. and because VA is the bigger number, that's what is on the box. but down in the spec sheet they should state how many watts it can deliver. if it doesnt, ignore the product anyways.

 

beyond that.. i generally avoid units that have a single 12V battery for running 'actual load' (they do great for stuff like network equipment), because they just get beat up too hard to get decent lifetime out of them. just a handful of power cuts will ruin the battery.

 

as for an actual brand recommendation, all of my stuff is APC back-ups, and my only complaint is that replacing the batteries isnt quite as streamlined as one would prefer (the 1400VA units basicly need to be dismantled with some force..)

they're all stepped approximation sine wave, which isnt ideal.. but other than making my power supplies a bit screamy it hasnt been an issue.

Seems like i can find that brand around here. I will look into them and other alternatives.
 

I did not find any info from the manufacturer on what is the response time of my PSU (Seasonic FOCUS GM), searching i did not find anything reliable either. I might have to contact Seasonic support for that.

[Pedro Henrique]

Update: power meter arrived tonight, i tested it for roughly 2 hours, did some of my usual stuff it stayed under 150w peak, then i ran a benchmark on CIV 6 - Gathering the Storm and it's showing only 230W (+-2%). I will see if i have more time during this week to do some editing and rendering and test if the peak consumption is any higher with those other tasks.

[Poinkachu]

3 minutes ago, Pedro Henrique said:

Update: power meter arrived tonight, i tested it for roughly 2 hours, did some of my usual stuff it stayed under 150w peak, then i ran a benchmark on CIV 6 - Gathering the Storm and it's showing only 230W (+-2%). I will see if i have more time during this week to do some editing and rendering and test if the peak consumption is any higher with those other tasks.

At most you'll use like 300w I think.

And that if you hammer both CPU & GPU with synthetic benchmark at the same time & have a ton of peripherals that draws power from your PC.