Whats the point??

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, miagisan said:

There are probably infinitely more games on the PC than on the consoles combined. 

yeah, sure, but there's a lot more trash on pc also... to me the obviously missing quality control makes me actually more wary trying out new things and i definitely refunded way more games than i actually kept... then there's this whole first person view bias... not something I typically enjoy (actually overwatch is the first game where it doesn't bother me) and then you have lots of console ports where devs go out of their way to make the POV narrower even in third person view "because pc gamers prefer that"... like wth it worked fine on the console version no need to change that and introducing bugs while also making you actually see *less*... prime example:  RE5... its just pretty horrible on PC...yes you can mod the camera but its far from perfect and still not like it was in the original console version.

and this isnt an outlier, its definitely a thing devs do.

 

1 hour ago, miagisan said:

And i like the flexibility of a pc over a console. The only thing i miss from consoles is a good NHL game to play lol

yeah, i also like not being able to sell my used games I'll probably never play again    sarcasm aside, where consoles definitely have the advantage is online multiplayer games, its just so much easier to talk to people, make friends etc - that might be partly my bias, because i despise using a traditional keyboard,  but in general online communities for games tend to be bigger on consoles,  not at last because it feels pc is really fractioned,  people don't seem to stick to games as much (and thus somehow never "get good" or even just are feasible to play due to too low player count) overall the online experience is so much worse on pc, lag etc seems also worse, some games are completely unplayable, which weren't an issue on consoles at all (DOA5 for example) 

 

PC definitely has advantages,  smoother gameplay overall,  mods, emulation... but its really far from perfect .

And i miss my favorite game, City Shrouded In Shadows... PS4 emu, when??? (sold the PS4, because screw paying for online, i also honestly feel the online was even better when it was free on consoles,  people felt less "entitled" or something i guess)

 

And don't get me wrong Steam has actually done a lot to make pc games more accessible/ easier to use, and i appreciate that of course,  but it also feels very stagnating except from additionally adding new controllers they don't really add much anymore,  not too surprising if you know a little bit of Newell's background imo. Especially the online experience needs improvements, especially on Steam, for some reason it seems to work a lot better on battlenet, which doesn't have as many games so is less fractioned and probably can be optimized more easily. (although i can only speculate about the actual reasons) 

[Fendrick]

We get it, you want to buy better hardware but are hard up, so instead of accepting you need to work for it, you need to vent here.

[Fendrick]

14 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

yeah, sure, but there's a lot more trash on pc also... to me the obviously missing quality control makes me actually more wary trying out new things and i definitely refunded way more games than i actually kept... then there's this whole first person view bias... not something I typically enjoy (actually overwatch is the first game where it doesn't bother me) and then you have lots of console ports where devs go out of their way to make the POV narrower even in third person view "because pc gamers prefer that"... like wth it worked fine on the console version no need to change that and introducing bugs while also making you actually see *less*... prime example:  RE5... its just pretty horrible on PC...yes you can mod the camera but its far from perfect and still not like it was in the original console version.

and this isnt an outlier, its definitely a thing devs do.

 

yeah, i also like not being able to sell my used games I'll probably never play again    sarcasm aside, where consoles definitely have the advantage is online multiplayer games, its just so much easier to talk to people, make friends etc - that might be partly my bias, because i despise using a traditional keyboard,  but in general online communities for games tend to be bigger on consoles,  not at last because it feels pc is really fractioned,  people don't seem to stick to games as much (and thus somehow never "get good" or even just are feasible to play due to too low player count) overall the online experience is so much worse on pc, lag etc seems also worse, some games are completely unplayable, which weren't an issue on consoles at all (DOA5 for example) 

 

PC definitely has advantages,  smoother gameplay overall,  mods, emulation... but its really far from perfect .

And i miss my favorite game, City Shrouded In Shadows... PS4 emu, when??? (sold the PS4, because screw paying for online, i also honestly feel the online was even better when it was free on consoles,  people felt less "entitled" or something i guess)

 

And don't get me wrong Steam has actually done a lot to make pc games more accessible/ easier to use, and i appreciate that of course,  but it also feels very stagnating except from additionally adding new controllers they don't really add much anymore,  not too surprising if you know a little bit of Newell's background imo. Especially the online experience needs improvements, especially on Steam, for some reason it seems to work a lot better on battlenet, which doesn't have as many games so is less fractioned and probably can be optimized more easily. (although i can only speculate about the actual reasons) 

A lot more trash on PC?

 

RE5 on PC is bad?

 

LOL?>?? Same as console my dude, wake up.

 

Almost 3/4 of the PS2 library was trash, except it had over 1600 games released so even a quarter of it is a lot of good games.

 

Steam has not made playing games easier, you can literally buy games on there that won't ever work with your modern hardware (Alone in the dark The New Nightmare as one example.)

Games that are no longer purchasable (Original Prey).

Games that have things removed due to licensing (All GTA games).

You refund more games on PC because buying games is so easy, and refunding is an option, without the ability you would not be refunding so much, pretty easy logic.

 

[xAcid9]

On 2/20/2023 at 4:15 PM, Mark Kaine said:

*most* games really dont utilize modern gpus fully... and i dont just mean use as much power as possible,  but texture work, physics, environments... overall graphics, sure lots of flashy stuff but if you look closely things didn't really change much the last ~10 years... there are indicators this might change right now with games using more ram/vram, but that doesn't mean the last 10-15 weren't pretty static...

I think what you described is optimization? 

 

Game dev need to find balance between graphic fidelity and cost to render it. I'm sure they can put ultra high res texture, crazy physics, realistic ray traced environment, tonnes of fancy shaders, but that will rule out >95% of PC gamer, they're not gonna make any profit. 

 

On 2/20/2023 at 4:15 PM, Mark Kaine said:

PS3 launch games like Motorstorm still look great / impressive if you play them upscaled on RPCS3 for example. 

The game that caught my eyes was Little Big Planet, It looked life-like. The fabric and cardbox texture, the stitches, lighting/shadow.

[stuckonthis]

On 2/19/2023 at 10:38 PM, Vishera said:

I have no idea what you are talking about,

What games in recent years EA released for consoles and not for PC?

 

Also EA isn't the whole industry, it's just a tiny portion of it.

NHL for a start...good luck in finding an ice hocky game since 2009, I mean a proper one not a home brew 

[stuckonthis]

On 2/20/2023 at 4:46 PM, miagisan said:

There are probably infinitely more games on the PC than on the consoles combined. 

 

And i like the flexibility of a pc over a console. The only thing i miss from consoles is a good NHL game to play lol

It's just bloat.  A major sport NHL and PC doesn't get any. very disappointing.

[stuckonthis]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:45 AM, Dean0919 said:

Heck, even Ubisoft started cross-platform games, like Rainbow Six Extraction or For Honor. Clearly I see more and more cross-platform games nowadays than before. Have no idea what he's smoking, but must be something strong lol.

PC patriot!

[Vishera]

12 minutes ago, stuckonthis said:

NHL for a start...good luck in finding an ice hocky game since 2009, I mean a proper one not a home brew 

Do you another example that isn't about sports games?

[Voytek85]

With the current gen consoles, the PC has become more relevant than ever. Yes it is a more expensive platform but the pro's outweigh the cons by a lot.

 

- Superior controls

- Better graphics (and graphics tuning based on how powerful your system is)

- Games are cheaper on PC

- Superior platform for online play

- Mods, mods, mods and did I mention mods?

- Multi-purpose device

- Software on current gen consoles is not exclusive

 

The current gen really doesn't have any real exclusives anymore in my opinion. PS5 library is just a huge disappointment and Xbox games are almost always available on pc and/or gamepass. The only real relevant console to have if you already have a PC, is the Nintendo Switch because of their unique IPs. 

 

I have every MS console, every Sony console, every Nintendo console and even though I love them for nostalgic reasons, I always end up back on the PC for the majority of playtime. Most console playtime is Nintendo because they offer things and experiences PC, Sony or MS don't have in their libraries.

[Fendrick]

Just fixing the post above.

 

- Superior controls ?????????? Subjective, I agree for fPS and any strategy games.

- Better graphics (and graphics tuning based on how powerful your system is) ??????????? Not all games, though they are old titles from the PS2 era etc have missing effects due to changes to modern hardware and operating systems.

- Games are cheaper on PC

- Superior platform for online play?????????? Cheaters are rampant in all popular titles to the point there are even cheater youtube channels.

- Mods, mods, mods and did I mention mods? ??????????? Not all games can be modded.

- Multi-purpose device ??????? If you are replacing a console then the purpose is gaming.

- Software on current gen consoles is not exclusive ??????????? Barely anything new on PC is exclusive too.

 

 

 

 

The current gen is superior vastly if you are budget conscious, XBOX gamepass and SONY has it's own service underway or already active.

[Fendrick]

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, Voytek85 said:

Superior controls

personally i find typewriter style 

controls annoying and outdated but ok.

also did you know you can use kbm on consoles? 

 

2 hours ago, Voytek85 said:

Games are cheaper on PC

not compared to their console counterparts cause those have used sales , you can buy a whole bunch of AA/AAA games on the cheap,  especially those that barely see discounts on pc.

 

 

2 hours ago, Voytek85 said:

Superior platform for online play

actually more fractioned for less popular games,  and no, certainly not on steam which has more awful online than anything i tried so far.

 

 

On 2/21/2023 at 2:35 PM, xAcid9 said:

I think what you described is optimization? 

 

yeah, lack therof, which is especially prevalent on pc, ie "bad ports" but its also a general thing for devs / pubs to ship things in a "good enough" state on all platforms (maybe, actually, nintendo less so) that barely is "good enough" and things like physics etc are simply on the backburner because games sell anyway even without taking care of those things. So yeah, calling lack of optimization and QA, optimization is a bit weird to me. Optimized for max profit sure. 

 

The hype / FOMO thing seems also bigger on the pc side of things i feel console players are a bit more aware of their power as a consumer (just in my not insignificant experience tbh)

 

See for example:

 

 

i also feel this happens more easily if you don't really own anything,  there's not much left than the hype cycle and "buy buy buy", which is also by far my biggest criticism of "pc gaming" overall. 

 

 

 

 

 

[xAcid9]

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

So yeah, calling lack of optimization and QA, optimization is a bit weird to me. Optimized for max profit sure. 

Nah, lets take a popular e-sports game like Overwatch. Suddenly Blizzard added ray traced reflections and full environment destruction. That changes everything. 

 

1. Hardware requirement to play the game.

2. Character balanced.

3. Gameplay style.

4. Level design

You suddenly have less player that can play the game because of RT requirement, it'll be much harder to balance the champions and match making will take much longer time. 

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

The hype / FOMO thing seems also bigger on the pc side of things i feel console players are a bit more aware of their power as a consumer (just in my not insignificant experience tbh)

 

See for example:

I don't understand why you use this game as example. Explain please?

[Mark Kaine]

13 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

Nah, lets take a popular e-sports game like Overwatch. Suddenly Blizzard added ray traced reflections and full environment destruction. That changes everything. 

funny because Overwatch unlike most popular titles has already excellent physics,  on the other hand something like Warzone has terrible physics (and textures) Overwatch's textures might not be highest resolution but at least they're polished otherwise,  Warzone has "ray tracing" (doesn't really feel like it matters) 

 

13 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

I don't understand why you use this game as example

why not? perfect example of the hype cycle (its not even that it's vaporware, thats not the important part here)  just how easy it is to hype any trash basically, doesn't matter how unoptimized (like eg. Cyberpunk)  or even "none existent" like in this example it is... pc gamers are extremely quick to jump on the hype wagon for no apparent reason (it def feels like fomo 99%)

 

[xAcid9]

57 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

funny because Overwatch unlike most popular titles has already excellent physics,  on the other hand something like Warzone has terrible physics (and textures) Overwatch's textures might not be highest resolution but at least they're polished otherwise,  Warzone has "ray tracing" (doesn't really feel like it matters) 

lol.. you lost me there. Compare to Warzone, Overwatch texture is much simpler, much less variations. 

 

What physics you talking about? Does OW even have bullet drop? 

 

57 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

why not? perfect example of the hype cycle (its not even that it's vaporware, thats not the important part here)  just how easy it is to hype any trash basically, doesn't matter how unoptimized (like eg. Cyberpunk)  or even "none existent" like in this example it is... pc gamers are extremely quick to jump on the hype wagon for no apparent reason (it def feels like fomo 99%)

I agree with that, mainly because majority of big game streamers is on PC. I don't even know any big streamer that exclusively stream for consoles. 

[Mark Kaine]

8 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

Compare to Warzone, Overwatch texture is much simpler,

Warzone has literally has tons of ps2 like texture (for ground etc) they have some nicer textures as well but its a mixed bag, overall seems rather mushy (due to the low res textures they're using)

 

Overwatch is simple,  but its nicer, overall more polished,  also i feel physics wise it does a lot, during a heavy fight there are so many effects etc going on at once, its kinda crazy and i don't think they could do actually more in that regard (low spec gamers will turn this all off i suppose because that is pretty demanding actually) also physics  - they are realistic  - its limited but many other games have far less, their environments etc feel much more sterile,  lifeless... also OW has minimal clipping... i don't know if Warzone is a good comparison (but its a popular title also, so maybe) cause i feel that has graphically really not much going for it at all, it almost feels like a UE game (maybe it is?),  drab colors, not much interaction with anything and everything seems kinda blurry (like a lot of upscaling going on probably) So to me its not really a fair comparison,  OW looks way more modern, WZ has this typical FPS look to it and really not much going on there at all (it does feel very lifeless,  despite going for a realistic artstyle) 

 

19 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

What physics you talking about?

clothes, environment, character animations, hair... lighting (etc) ... it doesn't do as much as i would have liked but what it does is pretty good to me to be a convincing ingame world, wz has this completely missing, hence i feel its not really a fair comparison. 

 

plus all the different weapons,  effects,  ammos, etc, that has physics too obviously. 

wz has 

21 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

bullet drop

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

 

22 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

I agree with that, mainly because majority of big game streamers is on PC. I don't even know any big streamer that exclusively stream for consoles. 

i agree that that is probably a big part of it, but i think its not just streamers,  there seems to be a deeper insecurity amongst pc community regarding missing out, or being "better" , probably because traditionally consoles had a lot of exclusives etc, thats also why pc gamers eat up those playstation ports no matter how bad they are (i guess) honestly HZD looks great for example,  but man, is the gameplay boring... they could have done so much more, plus the "platforming" is hilariously bad omg, that drags it down so much.

 

As i already said, if we need to compare the two, i feel console gamers have at least an idea of their power and influence as consumers,  pc gamers are happy with digital only rentals (which this basically is, if you dont have a physical game in hand that you can install and take with you anywhere, no matter if the servers are up, and especially resell it at any time) 

 

basically watch the video, this isnt really as much about "they against us", but more so how a specific clientele eats up everything and makes a hype train out of the smallest things,  and often for no good (apparent) reason  

[xAcid9]

On 2/23/2023 at 2:50 PM, Mark Kaine said:

Warzone has literally has tons of ps2 like texture (for ground etc) they have some nicer textures as well but its a mixed bag, overall seems rather mushy (due to the low res textures they're using)

From watching my friend playing it and from youtube videos, the texture is high res most of the time except on some rare ground texture especially when you prone.

 

Though I remember there's a lot of complain at some point about texture not properly loaded, maybe you caught that bug.

 

On 2/23/2023 at 2:50 PM, Mark Kaine said:

Overwatch is simple,  but its nicer, overall more polished,  also i feel physics wise it does a lot, during a heavy fight there are so many effects etc going on at once, its kinda crazy and i don't think they could do actually more in that regard (low spec gamers will turn this all off i suppose because that is pretty demanding actually) also physics  - they are realistic  - its limited but many other games have far less, their environments etc feel much more sterile,  lifeless... also OW has minimal clipping... i don't know if Warzone is a good comparison (but its a popular title also, so maybe) cause i feel that has graphically really not much going for it at all, it almost feels like a UE game (maybe it is?),  drab colors, not much interaction with anything and everything seems kinda blurry (like a lot of upscaling going on probably) So to me its not really a fair comparison,  OW looks way more modern, WZ has this typical FPS look to it and really not much going on there at all (it does feel very lifeless,  despite going for a realistic artstyle) 

So you prefer OW cartoonish artstyle compare to WZ life-like approach and somehow that make WZ less realistic to you. 

 

Let's go back to my original point. In Overwatch

1. Shadow is inconsistent, only some light source will cast shadows.

2. Flashy projectiles and skills but didn't emit any light or cast any shadow.

3. Bullet will go thru allies because physic.

4. Bullet don't leave any traces when it hit wall/ground.

5. Huge explosion didn't destroy any prop or wall, zero physic there. 

6. No vegetation? 

 

All these because Blizzard decided that these things is unnecessary, it only added overhead and useless to the game experience.

They optimised the game this way, these things even missing in Overwatch 2, a late 2022 game. 

 

Similar to Warzone, they want the game to be accessible to a lot of player. They even make it F2P.

 

I personally prefer Battlefield.  

 

 

On 2/23/2023 at 2:50 PM, Mark Kaine said:

here seems to be a deeper insecurity amongst pc community regarding missing out

A lot of good game released recently. Atomic Hearts, Hogwarts Legacy, Wild Hearts, Like A Dragon, Forspoken.

I didn't buy any of those and I don't feel left out at all.

 

On 2/23/2023 at 2:50 PM, Mark Kaine said:

As i already said, if we need to compare the two, i feel console gamers have at least an idea of their power and influence as consumers,  pc gamers are happy with digital only rentals (which this basically is, if you dont have a physical game in hand that you can install and take with you anywhere, no matter if the servers are up, and especially resell it at any time) 

I'm happy I don't need to take care of any physical copy, I have a lot of old CD/DVD that went missing or scratched up.

I can backup my Steam game to another media and play them in offline mode anytime if it's not an online game. Also as PC gamer, I always have the option to sail on the high seas if someone decided to pull the game out from the store. 

 

On 2/23/2023 at 2:50 PM, Mark Kaine said:

basically watch the video, this isnt really as much about "they against us", but more so how a specific clientele eats up everything and makes a hype train out of the smallest things,  and often for no good (apparent) reason

I know some story about that game, they released fake game play video.

Delayed it couple of times, and now they pulled it out from Steam because of "copyright" problem. 

The latest gameplay video is severely downgraded, it's not even the same game.

 

What that game have to do with this thread though? 

[Avocado Diaboli]

15 hours ago, stuckonthis said:

NHL for a start...good luck in finding an ice hocky game since 2009, I mean a proper one not a home brew 

Alright, that's certainly one of my blind spots, I don't care about sports titles in the slightest, especially not these yearly roster updates disguised as new games. And if you're a fan of those, it certainly sucks to not get it on PC if that's the platform you'd want it on. But it seems kinda hyperbolic to ask what the point of PC gaming is just because a few things you're interested in don't get released on it and calling it "half the games". Nobody is disputing that some games aren't making it to PC for one reason or another. But that number is fairly small and as people have pointed out, these days the number of console games, even exclusives, making it to PC has been growing over the last decade. That's why there's a disconnect between what you claim and what we observe. I suggest you try to illustrate your points better rather than just making hyperbolic, unqualified statements, because that can quickly lead to confusion, as you might have noticed.

[Ripred]

On 2/18/2023 at 4:08 PM, Middcore said:

Not sure what you're talking about. We're in an era where virtually all major new game releases get PC versions eventually; the only exception would be Nintendo stuff. Things are in a much better place than they were ~10 years ago when major publishers were not doing PC ports because PC gamers are supposedly all pirates or whatever.

 

That said, since virtually all of your posts on this forum seem to just be rants about how frustrated PC's and PC gaming make you, maybe for you personally it's not a constructive thing to spend money on anymore. 

Still waiting for Ratchet and Clank on pc...

[Stahlmann]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:32 AM, Fendrick said:

- Superior controls ?????????? Subjective, I agree for fPS and any strategy games.

Controls are subjective, but you can always use a controller on PC if the game plays better on that. Most consoles don't support mouse and keyboard, and espeically not in every game you want.

 

On 2/23/2023 at 12:32 AM, Fendrick said:

- Better graphics (and graphics tuning based on how powerful your system is) ??????????? Not all games, though they are old titles from the PS2 era etc have missing effects due to changes to modern hardware and operating systems.

Not all games look better on PC but most do. And i've never seen a game looking worse on PC. Most console games re-released for PC even get some graphics enhancements like better textures, anti aliasing etc.

 

On 2/23/2023 at 12:32 AM, Fendrick said:

- Games are cheaper on PC

That's just a fact. And the PC space has a lot more gray market game key stores, which make it even less expensive. Plus, piracy is a possibility. I don't recommend or endorse it, but it's a thing.

 

On 2/23/2023 at 12:32 AM, Fendrick said:

- Superior platform for online play?????????? Cheaters are rampant in all popular titles to the point there are even cheater youtube channels.

Cheaters are present in every online game, be it PC or console. People willing to cheat will always find ways. But big cheater problems are mostly because of the game devs neglecting countermeasures, not because it's on PC. Heck, anti-cheat software can be a lot more powerful on PC because some of them even run with Kernel-access, which is way deeper than devs can go on consoles.

 

On 2/23/2023 at 12:32 AM, Fendrick said:

- Mods, mods, mods and did I mention mods? ??????????? Not all games can be modded.

Not all, and the ones you can mod also have varying degrees of moddability. But mods are practically what's keeping games like Dark Souls and Skyrim relevant to this day. Do you really think Skyrim would have their 4th re-release if the PC modding community wouldn't keep the game alive?

 

On 2/23/2023 at 12:32 AM, Fendrick said:

- Multi-purpose device ??????? If you are replacing a console then the purpose is gaming.

That doesn't change the fact that a PC has a lot more utility than just gaming. That might not be an argument for you, but it is for a lot of people.

 

On 2/23/2023 at 12:32 AM, Fendrick said:

- Software on current gen consoles is not exclusive ??????????? Barely anything new on PC is exclusive too.

You mentioned them before. Practically any good strategy game is PC exclusive. And like i said before most Indie games are too. And Indie games are the cathegory where most memorable games come from. In 2 years no one will talk or think about current Call of Duty or FIFA games anymore. But everyone who played them will very likely remember Cult of the Lamb or Vampire Survivors.

 

On 2/23/2023 at 12:32 AM, Fendrick said:

The current gen is superior vastly if you are budget conscious, XBOX gamepass and SONY has it's own service underway or already active.

There, you said it. Consoles are superior when seen as a budget device. And if you don't want to spend thousands on a high-end gaming PC, you don't have to. Buy a PS5 or XBOX One, play the newest Call of Duty, Battlefield or FIFA every year and be happy. But don't pretend like there is no point to a PC.

 

However, it should be noted: If you already have a PC you can also make use of GamePass. No need to buy an XBOX just for that.

[MesZa]

Better performance, if you learn how to use it, it can be more convinient, depending on how you manage your money and what standard you want to play at, it can be cheaper.

 

But if your grievance is with controls, then you can get a controller and connect it to your PC. The difference between playing games like Jedi Fallen Order, Elden Ring and Rocket League with a controller is massive, especially to someone who is only on their second year of KBM

[emothxughts]

Buy Fromsoftware games? Buy Skyrim and mod it till it crashes?

[stuckonthis]

On 2/22/2023 at 9:55 PM, Vishera said:

Do you another example that isn't about sports games?

question dodger

[Vishera]

On 3/5/2023 at 2:57 PM, stuckonthis said:

question dodger

Am i?, A few sports franchises is insignificant and not representative of the industry as a whole...

[miagisan]

I rather sacrifice 1 sports game for utility of a PC and its vast catalogue of games. A few of my favorite games which I have thousands of hours on arent even a thought on consoles (DCS World and X3 Terran Conflict). Most consoles cant handle games of those complexities, and I would be sad....