Jump to content

Why EMULATE PC Games??

An entire generation of games are unplayable unless you kept your old PCs. Isn’t there some emulator we can use to bring the early days of 3D graphics back to life? There is! It’s called PCem.

 

 

Check out PCem: https://pcem-emulator.co.uk/
Check out DOSBox: https://www.dosbox.com/
Check out 86Box: https://86box.net/
Check out DOSBox-X: https://dosbox-x.com/
Check out the Internet Archive's free DOS games collection (playable in browser): https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games
Check out The Old Net: https://theoldnet.com/
Check out Folder2ISO: https://www.trustfm.net/software/utilities/Folder2Iso.php
Check out AnyToISO: https://crystalidea.com/anytoiso

Emily @ LINUS MEDIA GROUP                                  

congratulations on breaking absolutely zero stereotypes - @cs_deathmatch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Are VMs not a thing anymore?

AFAIK they simulate a fairly basic GPU, and if I remember correctly VMs are more complicated and resource intensive than an emulator, but I could be wrong on both fronts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure why this video recommends plain old DOSBox, which has had an utterly glacial update pace and (ironically) can run into issues on modern Windows, and not DOSBox-X. It itself is mentioned in this video, is very well maintained, far more advanced, and has a ton of useful and user-friendly features like save states and a navigation bar you can use instead of hotkeys or DOS commands. (DOSBox Staging and ECE also worth a look.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dose this mean we can play leisure suit Larry?

                          Ryzen 5800X3D(Because who doesn't like a phat stack of cache?) GPU - 7700Xt

                                                           X470 Strix f gaming, 32GB Corsair vengeance, WD Blue 500GB NVME-WD Blue2TB HDD, 700watts EVGA Br

 ~Extra L3 cache is exciting, every time you load up a new game or program you never know what your going to get, will it perform like a 5700x or are we beating the 14900k today? 😅~

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get the difference between nightdive and gog, they seem to do the exact same thing with obtaining licenses, fixing old games and reselling them, am I wrong? I visited their booth and they are working on a new system shock game just like gog studios (didn't know they owned other franchises)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would definitely recommend using 86Box over PCem, it has a much more active development.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, Slyceth said:

I don't get the difference between nightdive and gog, they seem to do the exact same thing with obtaining licenses, fixing old games and reselling them, am I wrong? I visited their booth and they are working on a new system shock game just like gog studios (didn't know they owned other franchises)

 

GOG is a marketplace like Steam which originally specialized in older titles but now sells newer stuff as well. GOG is owned by CD Projekt Red, the developers of Cyberpunk and The Witcher. There is no "GOG Studios" as far as I am aware. 

 

Nightdive is a developer that updates old titles, releasing them on GOG among other places, and is also developing a remake of System Shock. 

Corps aren't your friends. "Bottleneck calculators" are BS. Only suckers buy based on brand. It's your PC, do what makes you happy.  If your build meets your needs, you don't need anyone else to "rate" it for you. And talking about being part of a "master race" is cringe. Watch this space for further truths people need to hear.

 

Ryzen 7 5800X3D | ASRock X570 PG Velocita | PowerColor Red Devil RX 6900 XT | 4x8GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mt/s CL16

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Vbox cant allow you to play old games. The only issue i think is you cant share gpus (bcz amd and nvidia likes money)  but you can pass a pcie device into vm so you technically could use a old gpu or if you have igpu (or if it is intel you could share the intel igpu gvt-g is on every cpu ithink) your dgpu and isnt that work. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Are VMs not a thing anymore?

VMs are not a good solution for retro games, i've tried, tirelessly, to make a VM work to play windows 98 games.. and it's just not a decent solution.

27 minutes ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

AFAIK they simulate a fairly basic GPU, and if I remember correctly VMs are more complicated and resource intensive than an emulator, but I could be wrong on both fronts.

it's not so much that they simulate a basic GPU, it's that games from the day were looking for *specific* hardware (for example, sims 2 has a HUUUUUUGE list of GPU's and what settings to apply for them.) and usually.. GPU not in the list means game isnt gonna work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

VMs are not a good solution for retro games, i've tried, tirelessly, to make a VM work to play windows 98 games.. and it's just not a decent solution.

Fascinating...we clearly play different games as using a VM has been my go-to solution for the older stuff I play.

NOTE: I no longer frequent this site. If you really need help, PM/DM me and my e.mail will alert me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, Radium_Angel said:

Fascinating...we clearly play different games as using a VM has been my go-to solution for the older stuff I play.

then you've had better luck than me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, manikyath said:

then you've had better luck than me.

I also play fewer games, hopefully the link in the video will be helpful for you

NOTE: I no longer frequent this site. If you really need help, PM/DM me and my e.mail will alert me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

21 minutes ago, manikyath said:

it's not so much that they simulate a basic GPU, it's that games from the day were looking for *specific* hardware (for example, sims 2 has a HUUUUUUGE list of GPU's and what settings to apply for them.) and usually.. GPU not in the list means game isnt gonna work.

I've been trying to get my original copy of Age of Mythology to work in a Windows 7 VM but it complains about the GPU and then crashes on game launch. Would LTT's solution (or something like DOSBox-X) be a potential solution to this problem? Or is there a better alternative?

Keep in mind that I am sometimes wrong, so please correct me if you believe this is the case!

 

"The Nvidia Geforce RTX 3050 is brutally underrated"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, Birblover12 said:

 

I've been trying to get my original copy of Age of Mythology to work in a Windows 7 VM but it complains about the GPU and then crashes on game launch. Would LTT's solution (or something like DOSBox-X) be a better solution to this problem? Or is there a better alternative?

i'm setting up 86Box as we speak to test out this theory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I get ti Virtualbox might be good for running office software BUT GAMES really need specific things.  That said. even the worst VM is probably going to kick the crap about of the best bare metal hardware of the 90's. It is so absurd how much more powerful the computer are now.  Setting up windows ME in virtual box just to see how it would go recently and I had to remind myself how small the hard drives were back then. 

Yet at the time it all felt so advanced. 

 

@GabenJr great to have someone on a cool channel who someone my age can relate to.    I am old enough to remember when even Encarta or anything computer based were not encouraged for reference materials (at least where I lived  in the Early 90's).  Now a days we don't really discourage students from using Wikipedia either we teach around how to use it... and hold ALL encyclopedias suspect. Always question the sources an encyclopedia uses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, 86box contributor here!

A few notes about the project that might've been missed in the video:

  • Serial passthrough is WIP, but has been finally implemented and partially working, with some bugs to iron out
  • 86box already supports mounting any folder as a Virtual ISO directly from the Media menu
  • Support for Linux and macOS (plus native Apple M1/M2 support) is available, particularly handy for ARM64 systems
  • There is a special build of 86box for Linux that supports VFIO, so you can pass through physical sound cards, network cards, hard disks, or classic GPUs over to the emulated PC 😉
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

That said. even the worst VM is probably going to kick the crap about of the best bare metal hardware of the 90's. 

which is about as useful as this car technically having more power:

big-engine.jpg

 

the problem is that the software needs to be able to talk to the hardware, not the power of said hardware.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait Linus not playing a DOS snake game where the speed of the snake relies on the CPU clock speed?

 

Would love to see him struggle with a 5GHZ hyperspeed snake. that would normally run on 10-100mhz

╔═════════════╦═══════════════════════════════════════════╗
║__________________║ hardware_____________________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ cpu ______________║ ryzen 9 5900x_________________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ GPU______________║ ASUS strix LC RX6800xt______________________________________ _║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ motherboard_______ ║ asus crosshair formulla VIII______________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ memory___________║ CMW32GX4M2Z3600C18 ______________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ SSD______________║ Samsung 980 PRO 1TB_________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ PSU______________║ Corsair RM850x 850W _______________________ __________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ CPU cooler _______ ║ Be Quiet be quiet! PURE LOOP 360mm ____________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ Case_____________ ║ Thermaltake Core X71 __________________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ HDD_____________ ║ 2TB and 6TB HDD ____________________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ Front IO__________   ║ LG blu-ray drive & 3.5" card reader, [trough a 5.25 to 3.5 bay]__________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣ 
║ OS_______________ ║ Windows 10 PRO______________________________________________║
╚═════════════╩═══════════════════════════════════════════╝

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Foxlet said:

Hi, 86box contributor here!

A few notes about the project that might've been missed in the video:

  • There is a special build of 86box for Linux that supports VFIO, so you can pass through physical sound cards, network cards, hard disks, or classic GPUs over to the emulated PC 😉

Really so would I need to have a motherboard with a mix of PCI and PCIE or even ISA to do that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Really so would I need to have a motherboard with a mix of PCI and PCIE or even ISA to do that?

Yes! ISA only remains on industrial motherboards at this point so it's not exactly supported, but PCI cards can be used on a PCIe system using a PCI-to-PCIe riser cable (can be found on sites like eBay or Aliexpress), and of course on special motherboards with PCIe + PCI slots.

 

For example, here's an NVIDIA card passed through to 86box:

image.thumb.png.89f707b44e0b54dadc32b9321490cdb0.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, manikyath said:

which is about as useful as this car technically having more power:

SNIP

 

the problem is that the software needs to be able to talk to the hardware, not the power of said hardware.

True and false.  Given equal software if your bare metal PC in 1998 topped out at 75 Mhz and had a 256 MB HD and no GPU just an SVGA chip.   An emulator that simulates a computer that costed 5,000 back then kicks the crud out of that hardware.    Remember most of us who lived through that time never EVER had a computer that had a Voodoo 3 or even an Nvidia RVIA  or the best Sound Blaster etc.   Todays E-Waste or Vintage computer was yesterdays battlestation. 

 

4 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

Wait Linus not playing a DOS snake game where the speed of the snake relies on the CPU clock speed?

 

Would love to see him struggle with a 5GHZ hyperspeed snake. that would normally run on 10-100mhz


Ah yes the "TURBO" key that actually made the compute run slower.  LOL.   The first 486 I had had one of those. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

True and false.  Given equal software if your bare metal PC in 1998 topped out at 75 Mhz and had a 256 MB HD and no GPU just an SVGA chip.   An emulator that simulates a computer that costed 5,000 back then kicks the crud out of that hardware.    Remember most of us who lived through that time never EVER had a computer that had a Voodoo 3 or even an Nvidia RVIA  or the best Sound Blaster etc.   Todays E-Waste or Vintage computer was yesterdays battlestation. 

but that's beside the point of this exercise.

 

the game is built to run on said old hardware, it doesnt need more.

the game also isnt built to talk to whatever emulated devices a VM has, so chances are fairly good it wont even work at all, or has to use some brilliantly horrid failsafe rendering method.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, manikyath said:

but that's beside the point of this exercise.

 

the game is built to run on said old hardware, it doesnt need more.

the game also isnt built to talk to whatever emulated devices a VM has, so chances are fairly good it wont even work at all, or has to use some brilliantly horrid failsafe rendering method.

This is true.. but a lot of us did not have a great computer in those days.    Most vintage PC's one buys are not going to be the top of the line best computer ever from those days either.  So an emulator will give a much better experience than bare metal that most people will ever have or have had. 
 

1 hour ago, Foxlet said:

Yes! ISA only remains on industrial motherboards at this point so it's not exactly supported, but PCI cards can be used on a PCIe system using a PCI-to-PCIe riser cable (can be found on sites like eBay or Aliexpress), and of course on special motherboards with PCIe + PCI slots.

 

For example, here's an NVIDIA card passed through to 86box:

image.thumb.png.89f707b44e0b54dadc32b9321490cdb0.png

Oh my god that is so awesome.  Since graphics are really a BIG sticking point for most emulation/virtualization that is a game changer.    It does this and is able to re route the output into Windows in such a way that it still works without needing a second monitor?  I've only recently gotten Looking Glass to work with KVM in Linux (in Wayland) and get this with modern games. 

You did all of that.  I hope you take those skills and make some $$ bills with them too. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgive me if this exists elsewhere on the forums, but do you guys have a recommendation for software to backup old CD-ROMs? I still have a ton of games from the Windows 98 era, such as Duke Nukem 3D, Wolfenstein, etc, and I would love to back them up. 

Spoiler

Gaming PC

  • SSUPD Meshlicious White Full Mesh
  • Corsair SF650 Platinum
  • ASrock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/ax (Won a giveaway from OptimumTech)
  • Ryzen 5 5600X w/ Scythe Big Shuriken 3
  • 2x8gb G.Skill Flare X @3200 CL14
  • PowerColor Gigabyte RX 6750 XT
  • Storage:
    • Samsung 970 Evo NVME
    • Samsung 860 Evo 2.5"
    • MyDigitalSSD BP4 250gb (mSATA inside 2.5" enclosure)
  • W11Pro
  • AOC C24G1 + Dell S2415H
  • Cheap CyerPower keyboard (Wooting 60HE coming later this year)
  • Glorious Model O Matte White
  • LTT Northern Lights DeskPad 1000mm x 500mm
  • FX Audio Dac-X6 + Monoprice Modern Retro + Fifine Studio Condenser Mic

Media Server

  • Rosewill RSV-L4412U 12-bay hotswap
  • Unraid 6.9.2
  • Asrock B450 Steel Legend
  • Ryzen 5 3600
  • 2x8gb DDR4
  • LSI 9207-8I
  • 9x 2tb IronWolf • 2x 2tb WD Red • 1x 14tb WD Shucked White Label
  • MSI GTX 1050 Ti
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×