Intel Making a HEDT Comeback??? W790 Sapphire Rapids Workstation & HEDT CPU Platform Detailed

[gRaN-Ma project]

On 2/4/2023 at 2:30 AM, CommanderAlex said:

A Leaked Motherboard: SuperMicro X13SWA-TF

There has been a leaked motherboard that has surfaced online, the SuperMicro X13SWA-TF for LGA4677 processors that are codenamed Sapphire Rapids, confirming more of the leaks based on the new Xeon 2400 and Xeon 3400 CPUs

mentioned above.

 

On 2/4/2023 at 3:11 AM, leadeater said:

I just want to say Xeon W is not HEDT and X299 is not in this family of product announcement. HEDT still does not exist from Intel on the HEDT family product line...HEDT is still dead.

I don't know if HEDT is still dead or if the new Xeon W family is the new HEDT product line .I foresee its shortage, despite the high price, due to the semiconductor crisis and oligopoly (ASML and TSMC)!

[CommanderAlex]

38 minutes ago, gRaN-Ma project said:

 

I don't know if HEDT is still dead or if the new Xeon W family is the new HEDT product line .I foresee its shortage, despite the high price, due to the semiconductor crisis and oligopoly (ASML and TSMC)!

I doubt there will be shortages since it's Intel producing these chips in their foundries, not TSMC's foundries. 

[gRaN-Ma project]

31 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

I doubt there will be shortages since it's Intel producing these chips in their foundries, not TSMC's foundries. 

Intel is not as autonomous as you think. However, anything is possible.

Intel and ASML strengthen their collaboration to drive High-NA into manufacturing in 2025

 

[CommanderAlex]

9 minutes ago, gRaN-Ma project said:

Intel is not as autonomous as you think. However, anything is possible.

Intel and ASML strengthen their collaboration to drive High-NA into manufacturing in 2025

 

This article is talking about EUV equipment Intel has purchased from ASML to use...in their foundries. Still no point to your argument. Did you also want to point out that AMD is controlling the supply of their products to keep prices high?  

[gRaN-Ma project]

46 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

This article is talking about EUV equipment Intel has purchased from ASML to use...in their foundries. Still no point to your argument. Did you also want to point out that AMD is controlling the supply of their products to keep prices high?  

No, my arguments are clear. I am only stating that Intel or AMD are not as autonomous as you think, and that they suffer from the effects of the current market (including an excess of demand over their supply). That's all.

[CommanderAlex]

12 minutes ago, gRaN-Ma project said:

No, my arguments are clear. I am only stating that Intel or AMD are not as autonomous as you think, and that they suffer from the effects of the current market (including an excess of demand over their supply). That's all.

Not the case for Intel. Q4 2022 revenue was $14.0 billion, down 32%YoY and is also sitting on excess inventory as it's not selling and low demand for Intel. 

 

AMD is seeing the same side effects of low CPU sales and is limiting the supply of CPUs as well as GPUs to inflate prices. 

 

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/343019-cpu-sales-plummet-to-30-year-low-in-q4-2022

https://www.intc.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1600/intel-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2022-financial

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/342781-amd-ceo-says-its-limiting-supply-of-cpus-and-gpus-to-maintain-high-prices

[BabaGanuche]

32 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

 

AMD is seeing the same side effects of low CPU sales and is limiting the supply of CPUs as well as GPUs to inflate prices. 

This has been debunked by Ian Cutress here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3-nAnb_kIko

[starsmine]

39 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

Not the case for Intel. Q4 2022 revenue was $14.0 billion, down 32%YoY and is also sitting on excess inventory as it's not selling and low demand for Intel. 

 

AMD is seeing the same side effects of low CPU sales and is limiting the supply of CPUs as well as GPUs to inflate prices. 

 

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/343019-cpu-sales-plummet-to-30-year-low-in-q4-2022

https://www.intc.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1600/intel-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2022-financial

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/342781-amd-ceo-says-its-limiting-supply-of-cpus-and-gpus-to-maintain-high-prices

Its weird when journalists about businesses drop the ball THAT FUCKING HARD.
It is literally a journalists job to give context, and they just... made it up. 
A good editor would have caught such a thing.

[pas008]

15 minutes ago, BabaGanuche said:

This has been debunked by Ian Cutress here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3-nAnb_kIko

do you have an actual article with printed numbers

[starsmine]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

do you have an actual article with printed numbers

You mean like this? https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1115/amd-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2022-financial#:~:text=SANTA CLARA%2C Calif.%2C Jan,earnings per share of %240.01.

What are you asking for?

 

[CommanderAlex]

17 minutes ago, BabaGanuche said:

This has been debunked by Ian Cutress here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3-nAnb_kIko

10 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Its weird when journalists about businesses drop the ball THAT FUCKING HARD.
It is literally a journalists job to give context, and they just... made it up. 
A good editor would have caught such a thing.

Interesting to see that it was debunked. Still though on Intel's official Q4 2022 report they have excess inventory and the fact that the "semiconductor crisis"(gRaN-Ma project) and "including an excess of demand over their supply"(gRaN-Ma project) still proves my point that Intel is in control of their own foundries and have no issues with manufacturing due to excess demand, in fact they are sitting on products. 

 

[pas008]

11 minutes ago, starsmine said:

You mean like this? https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1115/amd-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2022-financial#:~:text=SANTA CLARA%2C Calif.%2C Jan,earnings per share of %240.01.

What are you asking for?

 

thx sir hate watching videos and just being told numbers not shown

[starsmine]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

thx sir hate watching videos and just being told numbers not shown

Well he doesnt go much into numbers in the video. He goes into business terminology that lisa sue said at the earnings call that tech press mis understood and ran with to the determent of AMD's PR. The numbers are not the important part, its that AMD is undershipping CPUs for at least the next quarter.

[pas008]

25 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Well he doesnt go much into numbers in the video. He goes into business terminology that lisa sue said at the earnings call that tech press mis understood and ran with to the determent of AMD's PR. The numbers are not the important part, its that AMD is undershipping CPUs for at least the next quarter.

yeah looks like their growth is from other areas

[porina]

3 hours ago, gRaN-Ma project said:

I don't know if HEDT is still dead or if the new Xeon W family is the new HEDT product line .I foresee its shortage, despite the high price, due to the semiconductor crisis and oligopoly (ASML and TSMC)!

Historic HEDT product is different from the Workstation Xeon products, which have also existed for some time. Maybe copium on my part but the "overclockable" versions might be near enough HEDT for me.

 

2 hours ago, gRaN-Ma project said:

Intel is not as autonomous as you think. However, anything is possible.

Intel and ASML strengthen their collaboration to drive High-NA into manufacturing in 2025

ASML are essentially the main supplier of (higher end) lithographic equipment. Intel used to own a significant share of ASML, don't know if they still do.

 

36 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Its weird when journalists about businesses drop the ball THAT FUCKING HARD.
It is literally a journalists job to give context, and they just... made it up. 
A good editor would have caught such a thing.

The problem mainly was that many tech reporters, and I'm being very generous in using that term, are not also experts in financial speak. 

[gRaN-Ma project]

35 minutes ago, porina said:

Historic HEDT product is different from the Workstation Xeon products, which have also existed for some time. Maybe copium on my part but the "overclockable" versions might be near enough HEDT for me.

 

ASML are essentially the main supplier of (higher end) lithographic equipment. Intel used to own a significant share of ASML, don't know if they still do.

 

The problem mainly was that many tech reporters, and I'm being very generous in using that term, are not also experts in financial speak. 

Actually I know the meaning of "hedt". A market analysis is more complicated than that. However, I respect everyone's opinions and it was a pleasure to discuss with you. 

[CommanderAlex]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:11 PM, leadeater said:

I just want to say Xeon W is not HEDT and X299 is not in this family of product announcement. HEDT still does not exist from Intel on the HEDT family product line.

 

Xeon W and Core X (HEDT) have always co-exited and are different platforms. Note realistically we don't use the same naming Intel does so I'm intentionally using community names for these things.

 

LGA2066 had two chipsets, X299 and Intel C422

• C422 = Xeon W
• X299 = Core X

 

From what I see here is that Intel is removing the split socket of Xeon W and going with a single socket and pulling the lower product tier up in to the larger socket. That means there isn't a new X299 coming and while you can buy in to this new platform it's going to cost a lot more than an equivalent X299 would have. Sadly because they have Xeon naming I don't think we'll get any RIP GN/Jay OC wars with them and I doubt they will get review samples or bother buying them, argh.

 

TL;DR HEDT is still dead.

I was just listening to HW news by GamersNexus...looks like he's in the same boat. 

 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, CommanderAlex said:

I was just listening to HW news by GamersNexus...looks like he's in the same boat. 

Yes, he announced his opinion very well, was a great announcement of his pending opinion of the announcement.

[CommanderAlex]

UPDATE: Intel has officially announced the Xeon W 2400 & W 3400 CPUs today, as previously mentioned. Price for the flagship, Xeon W9-3495X to cost $5889. For the mainstream flagship, the Xeon w7-2495X, will cost $2189. Prices are as follows.

 

 

Xeon W-3400 Series Prices

 

Xeon W-2400 Series Prices

 

 

In Intel's product brief, they have given us product comparisons for both product lines. 

 

Xeon W-3400 Processors Comparison

Xeon W-2400 Processors Comparison

 

One last thing, block diagrams for both the Xeon W-3400 and Xeon W-2400 Platform were also included in the product brief. 

 

Xeon W-3400 Block Diagram

Xeon W-2400 Block Diagram

 

My thoughts: So the rumors appear to have been true. Costs are pretty high but also entry level mainstream Xeons found on the W-2400 SKUs appear to be decent options for those looking at purely workstation needs and the necessities the W790 chipset provides. I will update the SKU tables in the original post so as to not have these get buried deep in the article. 

 

Sources:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/resources/intel-xeon-desktop-workstations.html#gs.plxm1k

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/processors/xeon/w-3400-w-2400-workstation-platform-brief.html

 

[Lurick]

20 hours ago, leadeater said:

Yes, he announced his opinion very well, was a great announcement of his pending opinion of the announcement.

Did you announce your announcement to announce you were going to announce his announced opinion of the announcement's pending announcement for the later announcement?

[porina]

Pricing of the lower models is more than I'd hope for, so I guess I'm out. In historic context it isn't that bad I guess, but I'm not feeling that rich right now. Just looking at 12 core models:

2017 7920X $1199 (I got mine far after launch so it was much cheaper)

2018 9920X $1189

2019 10920X $700-ish

2023 2455X $1039

2023 3425 $1189

 

I was hoping the 2455X would be quite a bit less than that. The delta does make the 3425 more attractive, although I'd expect the mobo to cost a LOT more for it.

 

A detail I didn't pick up earlier: I think to get the memory channels and PCIe lanes you do need the multiple dies, which can't help with the cost. This also means it may have the same problem I have with AMD CPUs that they're not very monolithic like. Will be interesting to see how they really work when they get into people's hands.

[starsmine]

1039 per for 1000 tray of the cheapest HEDT (looking at boxed only, I assume the non boxed would be OEM only)

JESUS OOOF

So the actual price will be like 1100-1200

[Rolling2405]

Does anyone know when motherboard models will be announced? Will we be getting gaming/enthusiast boards such as Asus ROG?

[gRaN-Ma project]

1 hour ago, Rolling2405 said:

Does anyone know when motherboard models will be announced? Will we be getting gaming/enthusiast boards such as Asus ROG?

Maybe for supermicro X13SWA-TF it's April 2023. I don't know for other manufacturers.

Otherwise Socket E (LGA 4677) support 4th Gen Intel® Xeon® Scalable processors C741 it's already official.

 

 

[gRaN-Ma project]

From Asus:

Quote

In this first look preview, we dive into our latest Intel HEDT motherboards based on the latest W790 chipset. These two motherboards are ready for the latest Intel XEON W series CPUs, the W-3400 and W-2400 respectively. The W790 platform offers an impressive update compared to X299, Intel’s previous HEDT enthusiast chipset. It offers professionals and PCDIY enthusiasts improves performance, robust expansion and the latest generation IO and spec. Those in the fields of science and simulation, CAD, VFX, media production, mixed media production as well as many other fields and advanced productivity workflows can see significant improvements to productivity. Alongside a new socket this platform introduces the “golden cove” CPU microarchitecture with support for up 56 cores and 112 threads. In addition, support for up to eight channels of DDR5 memory, and up to 112 PCIe Gen 5.0 lanes for extensive PCIe expansion. Add to this rich IO including support for USB 3.2 20GBps, 10G and WiFi support. We go over each of the board’s respective features, functions, and overall specifications. For more information join our ASUS PCDIY group or check out informative and detailed first look preview article on our edge up website https://www.facebook.com/groups/ASUSP... https://edgeup.asus.com/2023/asus-pro...