CHEAP does NOT mean GOOD VALUE - Low End GPUs Explained

[Emily Young]

Budget GPUs might look cheap, but they’re more expensive than you think for such low-end cards. When is it okay to buy one, and how can you tell if you’re overpaying for yesteryear’s cards?

 

[DarkSwordsman]

While I know this was more an educational video, a little disappointed to still not see "price/performance" graphs of any sort. Though I guess that changes all the time with changes in prices.

 

It would be nice to have a site that can take the performance of cards and compare them to their current market price. We have performance data, and we have sites like PCPP that can scrape prices. Why not combine it into a single site so people can plop in their favorite games and their budget, and it can recommend graphics cards (or other components) based on current prices? Perhaps with the advent of the LTT Labs site (assuming the raw benchmark data is released) this can be done.

[tvccvt]

No joke, I can still run cyberpunk 2077 on a 1070ti and a Ryzen 7 1700X.

[podkall]

if it's Nvidia and has GT instead of GTX in front of it it's e-waste if you're interested in gaming,

 

and even then for office work it's still better to use iGPU....

 

(excluding very light games and specific e-sport titles)

Edited December 13, 2022 by podkall
edit

[DarkSwordsman]

12 minutes ago, tvccvt said:

No joke, I can still run cyberpunk 2077 on a 1070ti and a Ryzen 7 1700X.

If you have a chance to upgrade that CPU, I can tell ya it will feel pretty great.

I had upgraded from a 2600K to a 1700X and the difference was insane. But then I also upgraded to a 3950X and the difference was still impressive, especially with how poor the original infinity fabric was. I can't imagine how awesome it would be to go from a 1700X to something like a 5700X/7700X or 12th/13th gen Intel.
 

12 minutes ago, podkall said:

if it's Nvidia and has GT instead of GTX in front of it it's e-waste if you're interested in gaming,

 

and even then for office work it's still better to use iGPU....

Can't lie, I was actually interested in a GT1630 to use in a media server. I'm not sure of it's actual capability in terms of parallel encodes, but considering it supports HEVC and H264 decoding (even 4:4:4 12 bit), it would be perfect for transcoding media that isn't supported on certain devices. Plus the firmware unlock on Linux to allow it to transcode many streams. On a 1070, I think I was able to do 4 streams before it started to have issues, but it was more of an issue with Jellyfin than the hardware capability. It theoretically could transcode 1080p24 fast enough to do 10+ streams at once.

[tvccvt]

1 minute ago, DarkSwordsman said:

If you have a chance to upgrade that CPU, I can tell ya it will feel pretty great.

I had upgraded from a 2600K to a 1700X and the difference was insane. But then I also upgraded to a 3950X and the different was impressive still. I can't imagine how awesome it would be to go from a 1700X to something like a 5700X/7700X or 12th/13th gen Intel.

I would if I could darling but I am broke AF

[podkall]

Just now, tvccvt said:

I would if I could darling but I am broke AF

we've all been there

[tvccvt]

12 minutes ago, DarkSwordsman said:

While I know this was more an educational video, a little disappointed to still not see "price/performance" graphs of any sort. Though I guess that changes all the time with changes in prices.

 

It would be nice to have a site that can take the performance of cards and compare them to their current market price. We have performance data, and we have sites like PCPP that can scrape prices. Why not combine it into a single site so people can plop in their favorite games and their budget, and it can recommend graphics cards (or other components) based on current prices? Perhaps with the advent of the LTT Labs site (assuming the raw benchmark data is released) this can be done.

I'd love to see the two partner up honestly

[podkall]

6 minutes ago, DarkSwordsman said:

Can't lie, I was actually interested in a GT1630 to use in a media server. I'm not sure of it's actual capability in terms of parallel encodes, but considering it supports HEVC and H264 decoding (even 4:4:4 12 bit), it would be perfect for transcoding media that isn't supported on certain devices. Plus the firmware unlock on Linux to allow it to transcode many streams. On a 1070, I think I was able to do 4 streams before it started to have issues, but it was more of an issue with Jellyfin than the hardware capability. It theoretically could decode 1080p24 fast enough to do 10+ streams at once.

hmmmmmmm

 

idk, perhaps for specific cases the GT cards can be good, but not if the first 2 numbers are 10

[LinusTech]

The labs site will certainly (eventually) be able to generate price to performance comparison charts as-needed.

[Imbadatnames]

But if it’s all you can afford and it get your performance you’re happy with then why not. The same logic also applies for pretty much any card that isn’t middle of the stack

[Radium_Angel]

34 minutes ago, podkall said:

we've all been there

Been?

Some of us are still there 

5 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

But if it’s all you can afford and it get your performance you’re happy with then why not. The same logic also applies for pretty much any card that isn’t middle of the stack

Everyone loves the "best bang for the buck" mentality. Finding a person who is looking for "middle of the road" is rare. But overall I agree, tell someone you bought a crappy (in their eyes) GPU and you are happy with it, and they will lose their mind. 

[sthomas1989]

I didn't see any links to the budget GPUs in the video description... am I being blind, or are they not there?

[Nystemy]

To be fair. A cheap GPU could get a ton cheaper from a manufacturing standpoint.

 

Going with a less fancy cooler is one way to reduce the price. A bit less overkill VRM is another solution.

But yes, there is still a lot of other overhead that adds significant cost. Shipping and handling costs are rather major for any business.

 

So yes, there is a logical lower bound.

Though, I would agree that nVidia and AMD should more properly stick to their naming convention and have actual even performance steps for each name down the list. A 70-80% difference is logical. And yes, one will have to make exceptions for those times something major starts being a bottleneck, like running out of VRAM, or such. So if a game has an 80% performance loss then that is technically still fine as long as the main benchmarks used for the score remains in line.

[HMK3]

Nice timing

I just was planning an upgrade to my 1050ti. I bought it with the pain of my wallet back in 2016. And i need a budget successor

36 minutes ago, sthomas1989 said:

I didn't see any links to the budget GPUs in the video description... am I being blind, or are they not there?

I searched too, no luck.
 

[justagirl]

To Mister L.G Sebastian,

 

Regarding your Video,

 

Both AMD and Nvidia are out to make money. They have R&D, manufacturing and sourcing and all kinds of challenges. But you may agree that both companies face the same universal challenge, that is to keep the investor happy. Investors as you pointed out on the "WAN Show", demand constant growth and high returns. A case and point was the conversation about Mercedes-Benz. Investors demand subscription-based economics in cars and other IoT devices.    

 

Both AMD and Nvidia want to take a big chunk of people's money. As you pointed out they will oversell low-value items to get higher profits. I am a 1030Ti user. My card was purchased by me for two reasons. The first was the availability of new cards and the second was the cost. Despite what others have claimed, GPUs used for mining are essentially e-waste. I say this because I got 1070 that was precisely that. Nothing I did could save my GPU as it black-screened intermittently.

 

Even today, people will still overcharge for the 1080s because of massive geographical considerations that many reviewers do not take into account.

 

I present to you, a fact that a low-cost house that is very modest is sold for $14491,25 US. Now Nvidia comes with a value proposition to buy a card that will cost about $1200 US. My father would need to surrender a quarter of his yearly income to buy just a GPU. Another factor you missed is running costs. It is a big one now, especially with the entire world facing energy shortages.

 

This is why 90% of people I know at my school, and friends online play mobile games exclusively. If you do a little investigation you will find that 45% of the TOTAL gaming revenue is generated by mobile gaming. Another fact is that a good mobile phone can be financed over two years as a standard contract. This allowed someone like myself, just a student, to save up for a phone and I did. 

 

I write this with all respect, Mister L.G Sebastian, people can no longer afford what you may consider basics. Even your refurbished DELL computers are not nearly as affordable as you believe them to be. The 40 series cards alongside the 30 series cards are so overpriced that it is still cheaper to buy a PS5 or Xbox Console than it is to buy a good gaming computer. 

 

An interesting fact is that we can't get Intel GPUs at all and CPUs with GPU capabilities are so unbelievably expensive that it is not worth the investment. I say this because all the hardware mentioned here will be worthless in less than five years. 

 

I hope this gives you some idea of how truly insane the current situation is. Just to give you some idea many of us use our phones for everything. This includes word processing and other function like Microsoft excel and things like Microsoft PowerPoint. we hardly if ever use computers. This is bad for Nvidia, AMD, Intel and Apple. We know Android better than any other OS. That means all previously mentioned companies will be abandoned as we learn to conduct business, bookkeeping, word processing and other functions on our phones. Some of my friends are learning to code on their phones. Bluetooth keyboards are invaluable and well worth the money for a good one.  

 

This will be my only post on this forum, I just wanted to create awareness, but as we know the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

 

 

 

 

thank you for reading

kind regards

just a girl.

[cmndr]

2 hours ago, DarkSwordsman said:

While I know this was more an educational video, a little disappointed to still not see "price/performance" graphs of any sort. Though I guess that changes all the time with changes in prices.

 

It would be nice to have a site that can take the performance of cards and compare them to their current market price. We have performance data, and we have sites like PCPP that can scrape prices. Why not combine it into a single site so people can plop in their favorite games and their budget, and it can recommend graphics cards (or other components) based on current prices? Perhaps with the advent of the LTT Labs site (assuming the raw benchmark data is released) this can be done.

At this point, AMD and nVidia are pricing against "capabilities"

Cheap cards are for 720p with OKish settings
main-line is for 1080p with decent settings
mid-high end is for 1440p with good settings
High end is for 4K with GREAT settings

Each jump requires ~1.5-4x the performance. They're also jumping up the price at a similar rate. 


 

[cmndr]

2 hours ago, DarkSwordsman said:

If you have a chance to upgrade that CPU, I can tell ya it will feel pretty great.

I had upgraded from a 2600K to a 1700X and the difference was insane. But then I also upgraded to a 3950X and the difference was still impressive, especially with how poor the original infinity fabric was. I can't imagine how awesome it would be to go from a 1700X to something like a 5700X/7700X or 12th/13th gen Intel.

With his video card the CPU probably won't matter THAT much. 

With that said, 5600G CPUs have been as low as $100. If you flip the 1700x, that's a very good bang/$ upgrade. The 5600G is reasonably close to the 5600 in terms of performance. 

[TetraSky]

1 hour ago, justagirl said:

Despite what others have claimed, GPUs used for mining are essentially e-waste. I say this because I got 1070 that was precisely that. Nothing I did could save my GPU as it black-screened intermittently.

This is really the luck of the draw and if it was bought online on Ebay, you have buyer protection to get a refund on it. Could've very well been a GPU that had its firmware modified for mining. I would also personally stay clear of mining GPU. Miners are not always tech savvy, they may just be opportunists who saw an opportunity to make money and took it, without knowing how to treat the hardware properly.

 

1 hour ago, justagirl said:

I am a 1030Ti user. My card was purchased by me for two reasons. The first was the availability of new cards and the second was the cost.

Yes, new cards cost a lot. BUT. Linus is not advocating for people to buy high end cards. Just to spend the extra $20~$50 to go from 1030 to 1050 and get double the performances, making the card last much longer overall as well.

 

I agree with a lot of the rest, like how gaming is becoming near unaffordable and consoles are a much better deal than PC gaming considering the cost now.

But, that wasn't the point of his video.

[ahuckphin]

I recently had to downgrade laptops temporarily... went from a GTX 1050 to a MX330 (GT 1030). The lack of NVEC surprised me as a user of OBS. Had to use Intel's Quicksync instead. 

[TempestCatto]

Having a couple of those cheap as chips cards on hand is a good idea if you have to troubleshoot. I've had to do that a number of times now for friends and family over the years.

[Guest]

I do note that integrated GPUs are already good enough for playing games, but I respectfully disagree with 1630s being bad value. In some countries, price/performance doesn't matter when it leads to a product one cannot at all afford.

 

*sigh* this still doesn't address the issue with price/performance ratios that LowSpecGamer talked about in this video:

(the video's old, but the points stand)

[crazzp]

56 minutes ago, Herrscher of Whatever said:

but I respectfully disagree with 1630s being bad value

This is only true if you cant find a 2nd-hand 1080s (or similar) like what Linus mentioned. If you're that short on cash, 2nd hand is always the way to go. This applies to almost everything outside of PC world. 

[Zodiark1593]

4 hours ago, TetraSky said:

 

 

I agree with a lot of the rest, like how gaming is becoming near unaffordable and consoles are a much better deal than PC gaming considering the cost now.

 

I’ve kind of come across a conclusion of sorts. PC gaming is really, really awesome if you’re playing a lot of older games, owing to the platform’s extensive flexibility, and advancements in iGPU performance. 
 

However, if all you’re wanting to play is the latest and greatest, I do have a hard time recommending a PC over consoles. 
 

Even for those wanting the best of both worlds, it would likely still be cheaper to get a console, and a cheap system with a fast APU, than a single system with high-end GPU.

 

Best case scenario is to probably plunk down for a mid-range GPU for a current system, though this assumes that you‘ve already a decent system to upgrade (CPU demands in new games have gone up substantially), and true mid-range options are becoming quite scarce. 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, crazzp said:

This is only true if you cant find a 2nd-hand 1080s (or similar) like what Linus mentioned.

I can find used GTX 1080s, but I can't say for certain if everyone else can, especially to people who are just planning on buying one instead of just buying it right now. There is always the one caveat that used markets vary from one country to another and some used markets are way worse than others: it's a matter of stocks, demand, local pricing, availability, and sometimes just plain old luck.

 

Also, to anyone else reading this, good luck with the used market.