Fingerprint for Attendance

[ahuckphin]

I was thinking of using a fingerprint reader to prevent people from voting multiple times at an upcoming exhibition. At this exhibition, one of the awards will be based on how many votes an exhibitor receives. The exhibitor with the most amount of votes wins the award. 

 

However, I am not sure if fingerprint reader + software pre-exists or if I am not Googling the right terminologies.

 

Currently, I am exploring the route of using an Adafruit like fingerprint sensor but the problem I'm facing is the limited number of unique fingerprints it can store as the fingerprints is stored in the fingerprint reader itself with seemingly no possibility of exporting the data/changing storage location. 

 

The fingerprint reader + software solution does not need to tie/integrate with the voting system. 

[Eigenvektor]

Sounds like a privacy nightmare. Make sure to check your local privacy laws before implementing anything like this. Not sure I'd want to vote at an event that wanted my fingerprint to do so. Besides… I have 10 fingers, so I have 10 votes, right?

 

Old fashioned solution: People who have voted get a stamp on the back of their hand. You can't vote if you already have one of those.

~edit: Or, if there's some form of admission ticket to visit the exhibition, mark the ticket as "has voted" in some way.

[shoutingsteve]

18 minutes ago, Eigenvektor said:

Sounds like a privacy nightmare. Make sure to check your local privacy laws before implementing anything like this. Not sure I'd want to vote at an event that wanted my fingerprint to do so. Besides… I have 10 fingers, so I have 10 votes, right?

 

Old fashioned solution: People who have voted get a stamp on the back of their hand. You can't vote if you already have one of those.

~edit: Or, if there's some form of admission ticket to visit the exhibition, mark the ticket as "has voted" in some way.

sometimes the low-tech solution is the best solution.

[ahuckphin]

25 minutes ago, Eigenvektor said:

Not sure I'd want to vote at an event that wanted my fingerprint to do so.

Is there value to fingerprints without accompanying data? (Accompanying data for example, name)

 

25 minutes ago, Eigenvektor said:

Old fashioned solution: People who have voted get a stamp on the back of their hand

How easily can stamp on skin be wipe/rub/wash off? 

 

25 minutes ago, Eigenvektor said:

I have 10 fingers, so I have 10 votes, right?

Was thinking of having a human monitor the voting station 

Edited November 2, 2022 by ahuckphin
spelling

[Roswell]

To state the obvious, you shouldn’t even be entertaining the idea of collecting stranger’s biometric data. Wildly inappropriate in the context of what you describe. In some states it would be straight up illegal to store their biometrics, in the others it would be legally dubious at best and open you up to lawsuits.

 

All of that aside, I imagine you’d have at least a handful of people causing a scene over it.

[Eigenvektor]

1 minute ago, ahuckphin said:

Is there value to fingerprints without accompanying data? (Accompanying data for example, name)

I'm not sure that really matters. You could commit a crime and leave my fingerprint at the scene for example? It's personally identifiable information so there's usually all kinds of restrictions on how it has to be stored, how long you're allowed to store it and so on. Doubly so for biometric features people can't change.

 

But I'm not a lawyer, so please do consult one beforehand if you intend to go forward. If you're in the EU, you might want to have a look at the GDPR. https://www.dentons.com/en/insights/alerts/2020/december/22/gdpr-update-biometric-data

 

1 minute ago, ahuckphin said:

How easily can stamp on skin be wipe/rub/wash off? 

I've had them on my hand e.g. as a nightclub's entry stamp. They usually last a few days even with daily showers, washing hands after visiting the restroom and such. So it would take a fair amount of effort to remove them quickly. You could probably even use ink that's only visible under UV to make it harder to clean off (since you don't see if there's any left) while also making it less intrusive. Do you really expect double voting to be such a big issue?

 

1 minute ago, ahuckphin said:

Was thinking of having a human monitor the voting station 

And that person will remember I voted with my right index finger instead of my left index finger an hour ago?

[wanderingfool2]

Fingerprint stuff I think is a bit hit or miss.  At least ones I've been forced to use for employee clocking in and out it is highly unreliable in detecting a fingerprint.  You can calibrate it to be a lot less sensitive, but then you get too many overlaps.  It could be different with different types of fingerprint readers, I can honestly say I don't know.

 

With a system like this though I would just do something like creating unique QR codes (not sequential) and give it out to people you wish to vote.  That way you can scan them easily (whether by app or something like that) with a phone or laptop's webcam.  Although with that said, I'm not sure exactly what your use case is (like if it's an open attendance, at which point the QR code thing wouldn't work).

 

I agree with @Eigenvektor it does really sound like a privacy nightmare.  Tracking biometrics in a lot of places means having to comply with a lot of laws (and privacy aspects of it).

[Erioch]

Just give everyone some kind of token that they use to vote.  Why overcomplicate such a simple thing?

 

Does voting for a vendor really have to be super secure?

 

 

[Biohazard777]

If you insist on a tech solution, without turning into a privacy nightmare (as @Eigenvektor already pointed out),
why not just buy a bunch of RFID tags and hand them out as people enter the event:

Less than 0.3$ per attendee (you can get a better deal if you buy a lot more).

Plus the attendees get to keep a memorabilia, which they can re-use (if they know how)... or they can return them as they leave.

There are downsides of course, like if people can leave and then enter again without leaving any info.
Can you give us a bit more info about how the event/exhibition is organized?

[LogicalDrm]

Nope on fingerprints.

 

As more techy solution, you could have tickets with unique IDs. Give one for each entering venue, have system to mark used.

[ahuckphin]

20 hours ago, Eigenvektor said:

And that person will remember I voted with my right index finger instead of my left index finger an hour ago?

Was thinking of having the human monitoring enforce something like only right thumb. 

 

20 hours ago, Biohazard777 said:

Can you give us a bit more info about how the event/exhibition is organized?

Currently it's plan to be a public exhibition with visitors freely able to enter and exit the venue without any registration required. 

 

 

I am going to drop the idea of using fingerprint sensor. I think at the end of the day it is a "balancing act" between preventing duplicate votes and controlling flow of people entering/exiting venue. 

[corrado33]

Why not just... hand out a small piece of paper to everybody who enters? That paper is their vote. Put them in a fish bowl in front of whatever piece they like the most. 

[Needfuldoer]

1 hour ago, corrado33 said:

Why not just... hand out a small piece of paper to everybody who enters? That paper is their vote. Put them in a fish bowl in front of whatever piece they like the most. 

A solution that's been around for decades.

 

https://www.amazon.com/ArtCreativity-Carnival-Admission-Fundraiser-Screening/dp/B081S9R7KV

 

[IRMacGuyver]

6 hours ago, Needfuldoer said:

A solution that's been around for decades.

 

https://www.amazon.com/ArtCreativity-Carnival-Admission-Fundraiser-Screening/dp/B081S9R7KV

 

It's always funny to watch people try to reinvent the wheel just because they've never stepped out of their comfort zone and seen what else is out there. Or worse they feel the need to over techify everything they touch.

[Needfuldoer]

No, really. All you need are raffle tickets and little drop bins to collect them. They're even tokenized with unique serial numbers! Unless someone knows exactly which tickets you supply and the number range they're printed with, or steals the roll from the entrance/check-in, they can't stuff the ballots. You don't even have to worry about collecting personalized data because it's literally just an anonymous, random (but sequential) number.

  

8 minutes ago, IRMacGuyver said:

It's always funny to watch people try to reinvent the wheel just because they've never stepped out of their comfort zone and seen what else is out there. 

Silicon Valley does this all the time. Hyperloop, anyone?

 

Spoiler

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Needfuldoer

[IRMacGuyver]

Just now, Needfuldoer said:

Silicon Valley does this all the time. Hyperloop, anyone?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

To be fair the hyperloop was supposed to travel at 760 mph.

[Needfuldoer]

19 minutes ago, IRMacGuyver said:

To be fair the hyperloop was supposed to travel at 760 mph.

Whoops. I was thinking of the non-hyper Loop, that RGB Tesla tunnel in Vegas.

 

https://www.boringcompany.com/loop

 

Point still stands, though. 250+ MPH surface trains already exist, and don't need to run in sealed tunnels.

[corrado33]

9 hours ago, Needfuldoer said:

A solution that's been around for decades.

 

https://www.amazon.com/ArtCreativity-Carnival-Admission-Fundraiser-Screening/dp/B081S9R7KV

 

 

Yes! I can't believe I didn't think of raffle tickets. But yes, this would work very well. 

[IRMacGuyver]

On 11/12/2022 at 5:21 AM, Needfuldoer said:

Whoops. I was thinking of the non-hyper Loop, that RGB Tesla tunnel in Vegas.

 

https://www.boringcompany.com/loop

 

Point still stands, though. 250+ MPH surface trains already exist, and don't need to run in sealed tunnels.

That was just a prototype test bed for the "real" hyperloop. 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:05 PM, Needfuldoer said:

A solution that's been around for decades.

 

https://www.amazon.com/ArtCreativity-Carnival-Admission-Fundraiser-Screening/dp/B081S9R7KV

 

Don't you know anything? You're polluting the earth and killing a polar bear with every ticket you rip. /s

[cmndr]

I have 10 fingers so 10 votes ok yes?