My rant to Linus!

[ionbasa]

It's about the Teckquickie video on battery care:

 

First of Lithium-ion batteries and Lithium-Polymer batteries do have a "memory effect". This has been tested and validated by Toyota.

• Source: http://phys.org/news/2013-04-memory-effect-lithium-ion-batteries.html
• Source: http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/03/li-ion-batteries-memory-effect

In the video you say that storing unused batteries in a refrigerator isn't necessarily a good idea, as a matter of fact, it is a recommended procedure. But you are right on not freezing them, that is a terrible idea. All batteries work because of electrochemistry. Whether you are using the battery, or it is just sitting in its package, it is still producing electricity. Now if the temperature is lowered, the reaction inside a cell or battery can also be slowed down. This can be related to voltage through gibbs free energy by these two equations: E°=ΔG°/(nF) and ΔH = ΔG° + T ΔS

 

Rearranging we get this equation: E°=(ΔH- TΔS)/(nF)

The important parts of this equation is T, which is temperature in Kelvin, and E naught which is 'volts'. So the lower the temperature, the lower the cell potential, meaning the chemical reaction in the battery will slow down. 

• Source: http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Analytical_Chemistry/Electrochemistry/Electrochemistry_3%3A_Cell_potentials_and_thermodynamics
• Source: Chemistry, Tro, A molecular approach, Ch. 18

Mini rant over, sorry...

[Ryan Leech]

You sir, deserve a cookie

 

Moral of the story, Linus dun goofed

[flibberdipper]

I couldn't understand anything after a certain point...

[Guest Kloaked]

TIL batteries last longer when cold.

 

 

I never paid attention in science.

 

I still passed somehow.

 

Thank you baby Talos.

[Benjamin G]

"Rearranging we get this equation: E°=(ΔH- TΔS)/(nF)"

 

I kind of lost you at that point

[Tmh85]

Wow I didnt even know G° was even a thing

[AMICLG]

The batteries do have the memory effect for the first 2 or 3 charges but after that they don't but factorys test their batteries so this is why they don't have the memory effect when you receive them.

[ilikemacandpc]

Now if the temperature is lowered, the reaction inside a cell or battery can also be slowed down. This can be related to voltage through gibbs free energy by these two equations: E°=ΔG°/(nF) and ΔH = ΔG° + T ΔS

 

Rearranging we get this equation: E°=(ΔH- TΔS)/(nF)

The important parts of this equation is T, which is temperature in Kelvin, and E naught which is 'volts'. So the lower the temperature, the lower the cell potential, meaning the chemical reaction in the battery will slow down. 

 

 

 

Ahhh, I miss intro chemistry, but I do remember some of this stuff from studying a bit of electrochem on the side. Good times... good times...

[WinNut]

Wow.

 

I lost track after sentence 4.

[imthewalrus]

Refrigerate your batteries, that way you can visit them while you get a beer. 

 

Lithium metal, which is one ingredient of the lipo battery is spontaneously combustible when it makes contact with moisture. This can even be true with just the moisture in the air. When you cool something and then remove it from that temp and immediately expose it to room temp or warmer air, condensation naturally occurs. If the battery is improperly wrapped, the condensation can occur inside the battery. If that happens, you have yourself an instant fireball burning at nearly 700 degrees F. They can also "explode".

[Bluejay0]

See? This is the kind of rants I appreciate. It builds better videos for the future and allows for further research to be done in future productions.

 

+1

[ionbasa]

"Rearranging we get this equation: E°=(ΔH- TΔS)/(nF)"

 

I kind of lost you at that point

Gibbs free energy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbs_free_energy

 

The equation I re-organized was the simplest in terms of what happens at different temperatures. As temperature decreases, so does the voltage. Meaning the reaction in the battery is also slowing down.

BTW there are many identities for that single equation, this was just the easiest to demonstrate the effects of temperature without involving logarithm math.

[Lord Pantaloons]

There is no pie in the op, this thread is not interesting.

 

 

 

This thread has now been fixed and is very interesting.

[Warcony]

I was thinking wtf through that whole video.  Not the most accurate info he's ever provided, but goes to show how complicated battery tech is these days!

[NannerBeans]

The Toyota article only said a specific type of Lithium ion battery, the lithium-iron phosphate, is affected but says nothing about NIMH which is what most rechargeable batteries use. Also, he only specifically said not to freeze them. He said refrigerating them is fine albeit the wording he used is disencouraging of that. I'm sure there are also other things in play other than Gibbs free energy which is high school level chemistry.

[ionbasa]

Refrigerate your batteries, that way you can visit them while you get a beer. 

 

Lithium metal, which is one ingredient of the lipo battery is spontaneously combustible when it makes contact with moisture. This can even be true with just the moisture in the air. When you cool something and then remove it from that temp and immediately expose it to room temp or warmer air, condensation naturally occurs. If the battery is improperly wrapped, the condensation can occur inside the battery. If that happens, you have yourself an instant fireball burning at nearly 700 degrees F. They can also "explode".

Lithium metal, is different than lithium ions. Ions are always in solution, aka liquid format. Also the lithium found in consumer batteries are not in its elemental format. Here is a diagram to explain this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The likelihood of causing condensation on the interiour of a battery is very slim at best.

[ionbasa]

The Toyota article only said a specific type of Lithium ion battery, the lithium-iron phosphate, is affected but says nothing about NIMH which is what most rechargeable batteries use. Also, he only specifically said not to freeze them. He said refrigerating them is fine albeit the wording he used is disencouraging of that. I'm sure there are also other things in play other than Gibbs free energy which is high school level chemistry.

Linus's video was specifically about Lithium type batteries. Linus doesn't mention Nickel Metal Hydride, so why would that be relevant?

 

Gibbs free energy isn't high school level chemistry, it's college level general chemistry   , yes I am a college student, And there are 2 chapters dedicated entirely to electrochemistry in our book.

[RelentlessAF]

In the video you say that storing unused batteries in a refrigerator isn't necessarily a good idea, as a matter of fact, it is a recommended procedure. But you are right on not freezing them, that is a terrible idea. All batteries work because of electrochemistry. Whether you are using the battery, or it is just sitting in its package, it is still producing electricity. Now if the temperature is lowered, the reaction inside a cell or battery can also be slowed down. This can be related to voltage through gibbs free energy by these two equations: E°=ΔG°/(nF) and ΔH = ΔG° + T ΔS

I saw a video not too long ago that stated this isn't true and putting batteries in your refrigerator is pointless.

[NannerBeans]

Linus's video was specifically about Lithium type batteries. Linus doesn't mention Nickel Metal Hydride, so why would that be relevant?

 

Gibbs free energy isn't high school level chemistry, it's college level general chemistry   , yes I am a college student, And there are 2 chapters dedicated entirely to electrochemistry in our book.

I am a college student too and yes it's in gen chem but I already learned it in high school. It was in our regular chem program as well as AP.

 

Edit: Because that is what is used mostly. The lithium-ion phosphate is used in car rechargeable batteries. Lithium-ion batteries is so broad because there are many things that can be used for the positive node and your article is specific to one kind. 

[ionbasa]

I saw a video not too long ago that stated this isn't true and putting batteries in your refrigerator is pointless.

What video may I ask? That would technically go against the temperature effect on spontaneity and the laws of thermodynamics from an energy/work point of view.

 

I am a college student too and yes it's in gen chem but I already learned it in high school. It was in our regular chem program as well as AP.

 

Edit: Because that is what is used mostly. The lithium-ion phosphate is used in car rechargeable batteries. Lithium-ion batteries is so broad because there are many things that can be used for the positive node and your article is specific to one kind. 

Well, I do believe it also affects NiMH. NiMH does not have a "memory effect" in the traditional sense. What does happen in a NiMH battery is that one of the electrodes is "consumed". In doing so the metal will dissolve into solution resulting in metal ions. The only issue is that recharging the battery does not force the metal from an aqueous solution back to solid.

 

Technically it isn't a 'memory' issue, but the reverse reaction is not spontaneous enough to force the metal ions back into solid form on the electrodes.

[RelentlessAF]

What video may I ask? That would technically go against the temperature effect on spontaneity and the laws of thermodynamics from an energy/work point of view.

I can't remember for sure it was video called something a long the lines of "Things you were told to do that aren't actually true" or something. It went through a list of things that you are told as a child to do that have been proven to be false.

[Mooshi]

They are batteries, calm down. The majority of people who uses batteries only care if they provide power to their device and how cheap they are.

[ionbasa]

I can't remember for sure it was video called something a long the lines of "Things you were told to do that aren't actually true" or something. It went through a list of things that you are told as a child to do that have been proven to be false.

 

To counter that claim, here is a statement from a company that sells batteries:

Putting batteries in the freezer or refrigerator doesn't necessarily prolong their life

 

Alkaline batteries stored at "room temperature" self discharge at a rate of less than two percent per year.  So normally refrigerating or freezing them will only help maintain their charge by a tiny amount.  Hardly worth the effort of chilling them.  However, if alkaline batteries are stored at higher temperatures they will start to lose capacity much quicker.  At 85 degrees F they only lose about 5% per year, but at 100 degrees they lose 25% per year.  So if you live in a very hot climate or are storing your batteries in a very hot location, it may be worthwhile for you to store your alkaline batteries in a refrigerator instead.

 

NiMH and NiCd batteries self discharge at a MUCH faster rate than alkaline batteries.  In fact, at "room temperature" (about 70 degrees F) NiMH and NiCD batteries will self discharge a few percent PER DAY.  Storing them at lower temperatures will slow their self discharge rate dramatically.  NiMH batteries stored at freezing will retain over 90% of their charge for  full month. So it might make sense to store them in a freezer.  If you do, it's best to bring them back to room temperature before using them. Even if you don't freeze your NiMH batteries after charging them, you should store them in a cool place to minimize their self discharge.

 

http://www.greenbatteries.com/battery-myths-vs-battery-facts-1/#Freezer

[Imabigmac]

They are batteries, calm down. The majority of people who uses batteries only care if they provide power to their device and how cheap they are.

So true

[LinusTech]

It's about the Teckquickie video on battery care:

 

First of Lithium-ion batteries and Lithium-Polymer batteries do have a "memory effect". This has been tested and validated by Toyota.

• Source: http://phys.org/news/2013-04-memory-effect-lithium-ion-batteries.html
• Source: http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/03/li-ion-batteries-memory-effect

In the video you say that storing unused batteries in a refrigerator isn't necessarily a good idea, as a matter of fact, it is a recommended procedure. But you are right on not freezing them, that is a terrible idea. All batteries work because of electrochemistry. Whether you are using the battery, or it is just sitting in its package, it is still producing electricity. Now if the temperature is lowered, the reaction inside a cell or battery can also be slowed down. This can be related to voltage through gibbs free energy by these two equations: E°=ΔG°/(nF) and ΔH = ΔG° + T ΔS

 

Rearranging we get this equation: E°=(ΔH- TΔS)/(nF)

The important parts of this equation is T, which is temperature in Kelvin, and E naught which is 'volts'. So the lower the temperature, the lower the cell potential, meaning the chemical reaction in the battery will slow down. 

• Source: http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Analytical_Chemistry/Electrochemistry/Electrochemistry_3%3A_Cell_potentials_and_thermodynamics
• Source: Chemistry, Tro, A molecular approach, Ch. 18

Mini rant over, sorry...

 

1. Memory effect is (for all intents and purposes) not an issue for consumers once they have received the product.

 

2. I didn't say storing in the fridge is a bad idea. I said storing in the freezer is a bad idea. Go double check.

 

Linus's video was specifically about Lithium type batteries. Linus doesn't mention Nickel Metal Hydride, so why would that be relevant?

 

Gibbs free energy isn't high school level chemistry, it's college level general chemistry   , yes I am a college student, And there are 2 chapters dedicated entirely to electrochemistry in our book.

 

3. My video was specifically about Lithium Ion batteries (0:25). I only briefly mentioned LiPo's, and I didn't mention any of the other Lithium type batteries.

 

Thanks for the post though.